Vices - how much do they put you off a horse?

B

BlackDiamond

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I have been looking for horses and have noticed a few reasonably price, nice looking sorts, but they have vices, in one case cribbing and in the other windsucking.

If a horse was priced well, and was what you wanted would it put you off and why?

I have not had any horse or pony with a vice, but have looked it up and found conflicting advice.

Any help would be fab

BD!
 
depends on the vice i suppose, but my horse is viceless and i have been used to this for 16yrs so am not sure if i would want to deal with a horse with a vice in all honesty
 
Depends really. Some livery yards don't accept horses with vices such as weaving because they don't want other horses to strt doing it.
Personally it wouldn't put me off at all and I wouldn't expect to pay less for a horse with a vice if it was a performer.
 
I have an ex-racehorse that cribs. It doesn't bother me anymore - he seems to find comfort in it and he's happy and healthy. It doesn't cause any problems so why worry (and my other horse certainly hasn't copied it!)
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Most will do, I would have thought. For me it depends on the vice. Windsucking is hugely irritating, but that's just my opinion. Crib biting isn't soooo bad, because at least you don't have to listen to them doing it!
 
I remember reading a saying by some old show jumping celebrity years ago , (cant remember who), he said "what a horse does in his own time , is his own business". I think it must have been referring to stable vices really rather than bucking, rearing, bolting biting and kicking though.
I must say I am not too bothered about cribbing, weaving and windsucking, if the horse was everything else I wanted but riding vices are a no -no, and handling vices like biting are not conducive to happy bond between you unless they are an angel once tacked up.
I
had a mare like that. She would have bitten your face of if she could, but was delightful once the bit went in.
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I think this debate, largely, is like the colour debate- good horse- who cares what colour it is, doesnt affect performance, same in most vice cases. My horse weaves at tea time, doesnt affct how well he hunts, or how big he jumps
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I think this debate, largely, is like the colour debate- good horse- who cares what colour it is, doesnt affect performance, same in most vice cases. My horse weaves at tea time, doesnt affct how well he hunts, or how big he jumps
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Couldn't agree with you more - I think a lot of people miss out on fantastic horses due to a misguided 'snobbery' about vices. If the horse is what you are looking for in every other way - go for it.
 
A 'vice' could be caused by the horses the then present environment. Give him a more natural/interesting life and it might stop; or if he gets all that and still has a 'vice' (there's a new name for it, but can't remember it), then that's just how the hoss is, and if he's good in every other way and you love him...
MM
 
This is what Im thinking, after reading up I have found that keeping them out as much as possible, feeding plenty of forage foods and antacids can help. Im not one to throw it in a collar or cribbox everthing.
 
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This is what Im thinking, after reading up I have found that keeping them out as much as possible, feeding plenty of forage foods and antacids can help. Im not one to throw it in a collar or cribbox everthing.

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I agree. They obviously were stressed to start the vice in the first place. Take away the stress and the vice will probably go. Plenty of turnout with company, should do it. Go for it. Good luck x
 
Oscar has been known to weave slightly when he's stressed but I haven't seen him do it at the new yard - think it was lack of work before I brought him!
 
My mare cribs for upto 5 mins after every meal but not in between. I do not feed her any titibits as these can start her off. The rest of the time she is vicefree. Not every horse with a vice exhibts the behaviour 24/7 so ask the right questions and know what the problem is so you don't get any nasty shocks later. Her previous owner traced her cribbing back to a over fast weaning which stressed her.
I knew she did this before I bought her and it didn't stop me buying her. I have never put a collar on her and never would.
 
My horse box walks before competitions, like when we leave him in overnight and he knows he's going to a show, he box walks, canters and bucks on the spot, out of sheer excitement. He also kicks the door in the mornings, dead on 7am. However, a) I am not there to have to hear it that early and b) I argue well at least it doesn't matter if they forget to set the alarm! Also, the box walking thing, I have been told by a certain someone that my horse is a nightmare, but he's not, he's just excited, and if he wants to show how much he loves his job in that way then good for him! Haha.
 
Dont want to sound negative but once they do it - they often do it for life. My boy is now out 24/7 (except in bad winter weather) and has had antacid supplements, etc, etc. I'm afraid he still does it just as much - I think it's more a habit now than a stress thing. But as I said he's happy and a beautiful natured chap in every way.
 
It wouldnt put me off at all, since my last eventer was a crib-biter. I was lucky enough to know him for quite a time before I bought him, but it never bothered me at all and certainly never affected his performance or condition.

It did stress out the livery yard owner when he loosened quite a few of the posts in the fence line of his field mind you...
 

I have a mare that weaves terribly. Doesn't affect her performance and no horse has ever 'caught' it off her. I do wonder what strain it has put on her joints over the years though.

Windsucking and cribbing can cause a horse to be a poor doer though as it forces a lot of air down the gullet and can interfere with digestion. Not true of all horses that crib/suck but even so it is a possibility.
I would not be put off by a vice if I really liked the horse but it is worth remembering that there are plenty of good horses out there without such vices.
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Like most people have already said, it really depends on:-

What you want the horse for
Where you are going to keep it
What your routine will be
Whether (dependant on what you want horse for) vice will or will not affect its health or performance.

I have a box walker, friend has one that crips and windsucks!

To be honest they have all been great horses, no issues whatsoever with any health, and are generally happy however they are not kept on livery yards where some people really stress about windsuckers and cribbers!

Its personal preference and whether yard will accept one with vices.

Personally I dont care whether they have a vice as long as they are happy, comfortable and it doesnt upset anyone else!

As vet once said, windsuckers particularly, its a bit like a smoker, its just a way of letting out stress and once the habit is formed sometimes they can "give up" with change of management and others can't kick the habit!!
 
The mare i am looking at doesn't do it out in the field and has apparently stopped now - so its more of an occassional vice, like Rosiiepimms horse rather than something she sits there doing all day.

There's hope for her yet as I keep coming back to her all the time as she seems wonderful.
 
It would not put me off at all as I bought a unbroken IDxTB mare last year for pittance, that cribs. Now she is broken she is absolutley everything I could hope for and if she didn't have this vice I would not have been able to afford her.

Yes its annoying and I wouldn't go into it thinking that you can cure it as they will often do it for life, but you can control it. Mine has never (touch wood) had any helath issues from it.
 
I would not have a problem with cribbing as you can get grids you can put up to stop them doing it in the stable as they have nothing to grab hold of - it is rarer when they are turned out in a happy herd.

Wind sucking would be a no as I think there can be issues with collic.

Weaving again not so much an issue as with turnout and ad lib hay less likely to manifest itself - mainly a result of being bored.

My pony has a vice in that he hates being stabled has jumped out over a weaving grid and now has a full grid and bangs like mad and pushes on the door - worries me a great deal as think he might brake the door down - luckily he lives out and it manifests itself less in the winter, when he needs to come he will be sedated and hopefully in time he will get used to it - he is only 5. He's great and I love him but I would not buy another pony with the same vice and it does cause me extreme worry, would much rather have a cribber or weaver instead.

I think if you already know and love the horse it is different than buying one knowing it has a problem as if you find out post purchase there is an issue you tend to accept it more.
 
New name is stereotypies. Current thinking is that it's a horse's way of coping with stress/unnatural things in his environment that he can't change. Like polar bears snaking, snaking, snaking in tiny cages. In an ideal world, it shouldn't happen but there you go. I thought like meardsall_millie that once they learn it, they often do it even when the original stress factor is long gone. Bit like smoking, eating cream cakes or retail therapy!
 
Certain vices can cause long term problems with health and so it really depends on how often a horse displays this and for how long he/she has been doing it. Weaving when at its worst can cause problems to the lower limbs & soft tissue because the swaying from side to side puts strain on the legs.

windsucking can cause respiratory problems & the gulping of the air can also cause stomach ulcers which results in picky eaters that cant hold much weight.

Cribbing again at its worst but less of a problem causes uneven wearing of the teeth which can result in problems with chewing of feed & grass, again causing weight loss, in severe cases it is difficult to read how old a horse is that is a prolific cribber but now we have passports it isn't such a problem!
 
My pony box walks and weaves slightly but only when on box rest. I wouldn't buy a horse that weaves/box walks/cribs etc or has sweetitch or laminitis. I wouldn't buy anything that was difficult to catch/load/shoe or bad in traffic or a known bolter/rearer/bucker. But I'm very fussy
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Ive had one who cribbed and I wouldnt buy another purely because it irritated the hell out of me, watching her grab hold of a fence post and that horrid gulping sound! Im unsure if she was actually a windsucker because I think I heard her gump when jerking down on a haynet a few times. She destroyed all our fence posts making them really wonky! I dont agree that others copy it though, I had a very influential youngster at the time who never tried it. But a lot of livery yards dont accept horses who do it.

I wouldnt accept one who weaved either after knowing a friends horse who did it, he'd twist so badly that his front legs basically went so he was PTS.

Therefore I doubt Id ever buy a horse with a vice. Maybe if it only very occassionally did it - like cribbed ONLY at feed time or something. Itd have to be a very special horse though!
 
My connemara pony used to crib really badly, hell of a lot more at feed times! He used to pull the posts up in the field as well and even with a collar he still did it. It was annoying, but he never got colic because of it and still hasnt (I keep in touch as hes only 2 miles down the road with current owners), but it was really annoying. I sold him for a lot less than what he would have been worth if he didnt crib (he's a superstar!) but then I bought him for practically nothing so it all worked out in the end.
I wouldnt buy a weaver, Ive know a lot of ongoing problems with that.
As for other vices, one of the main criteria for me when buying a horse is that it will load easily as I get very stressed if they dont, especially when Im on my way to a competition.
My current horse was branded a 'bucker' - I had him on trial before I bought him and during that time had saddler to fit a new saddle and back man out and he hasn't bucked since!
I think I would avoid vices but again, as said above, for an exceptional horse I would overlook some vices
 
i don't mind weaving but wouldn't have a cribber on something that windsucks.

my eventer weaved a lot when i got him but with a strict routine and lots of ad-lib haylage he rarely does it now- only when he gets excited or angry!
he was half the price he should have been though and i wouldn never have been able to afford him without the weaving
 
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