Victim (perhaps sucker) of advertising

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Sven

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I have put my reasonably well behaved but sometimes tense horse on a well advertised bespoke supplement, as everything I read points to it being successful. To be honest it's probably me that needs the calmer as it is me that has a disitinct lack of confidence. So has he improved, well no, if anything I think he is worse.

He is a good doer fed on molasses free hi Fi and Baileys lo cal. I am thinking that I should take him off the supplement as really he should be getting all he needs from the balancer (or am I being stupid again🙄). I've had him nine months now and he is a darling, I just wish he was a little less tense when being ridden so I would trust him more, so a bit of a chicken and egg situation.

I am hoping once the clocks change and I can ride more we will come to a better understanding - so ditch the supplement?
 
Calmers are utterly useless. They work more on the human than the horse. If the human believes the horse to be calmer because of the supplement they are more relaxed and thus the horse is more relaxed.

I did try one with valerian in on my TB and it actually made him a million times worse! He turned into a gibbering freak in a week, took him off of it after two weeks and it took another 2 weeks for him to return to his normal hyper self.

Tbh my lad is hyper due to too much feed and not enough exercise. He has always had an edge on him though.
 
If it isn't working then you are just creating expensive poo. As Goldenstar says, work will cure most of the problems that have people reaching for the calmers. Tension is a vicious circle - at least one of the two of you needs to be the steady, in charge person. Oh, and don't blame the makers - you are not a victim, they are simply working a very lucrative angle. Of course it's easier to buy something than to make an effort.
 
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Work is best, but sometimes chemical help is useful in easing tension to the pint where the horse can cope with work. Same with humans, really.

And horses (as do humans) have incredibly varied reactions. I found that none of the usual suspects did a blind bit of good, but valerian does make a real difference.

Worth playing around I think.
 
Thanks for all your replies, I think I will take him off everything except his basic feed. It's a vicious circle when work prevents you from working your horse as regularly as you'd like. I know the real problem is me, perhaps I'll start taking it ����
 
I wouldn't say calmers are 'utterly useless'. I had my horse on a calmer, and he became a much nicer person. After a while I ran out, and he seemed the same so I decided it wasn't necessary to buy anymore. A week later and he started spooking really badly again, dropping me on the road on a hack.

I bought more, gave him a week off to allow it back into his system, and he stopped spooking like that. I'm fairly sure that's not in my head.

His 'aunt' has a genuine magnesium deficiency. She would sweat up after returning home from shows, so much so that I would have to change rugs at least twice in an evening after going out (in winter and fully clipped), because she would soak them with sweat. She had no 'off' switch and would be anxious for 4-5 hrs after being away from home. She went onto magnesium and all that stopped. Every so often I would run out and she would go back to the same behaviour.
 
Take him off the molasses free hi fi as it has alfalfa as well as chopped straw and turns my two into demons.

They are on dengie meadow grass and equivite original and that's it
 
I have read a few threads recently that mention haylage and highly strung horses, what forage does your horse get?
 
Ah calmer, been there tried it, same result :). Sometimes its just trial and error of feed and work balance. Mr C was on lo cal balencer (spillers) and alfalfa molassas free with haylage. Was never a loon but could be a tad too forward :).

Swopped the balancer for old fashioned meadow herb got rid if calmer and never looked back! He lost weight too :) then again Mr C does like to be the exception to every rule :).
 
Remove Alflafa from diet and see if it makes a difference.

Annoyingly, baileys have now started to include alfalafa meal in baileys lo cal Balancer, which I had a bit of a moan about to them yesterday as it was one of the only balancers I could find previously that was alfalfa free.
 
turnbuckle said:
Work is best, but sometimes chemical help is useful in easing tension to the pint where the horse can cope with work. Same with humans, really.

And horses (as do humans) have incredibly varied reactions. I found that none of the usual suspects did a blind bit of good, but valerian does make a real difference.

Worth playing around I think.
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You will happily ride a drugged horse??
 
Well I rode today, first time for him for 8 days due to hols and work, and he was for perfect so go figure. The alfalfa debate is interesting,I think "it" did start around the time I changed from hi Fi lite to molasses free. I thought I was doing the right thing cutting back on molasses as he is a good doer. As for forage he is on steamed hay and currently being fed 2015 hay.

Will investigate meadow herb, unfortunately I can't always get certain feeds living on a small island. Thanks for your comments.
 
Calmers are a fairly recent innovation in the horse world. I think for a very small number of horses they can help but for the majority I think it is more of a psychological help for the rider.

Usually more work and less hard feed can help.
 
Hi Sven, saw you might look into meadow herb, its by spillars. I'm a big fan of it and their cool mix. Mr C is great on it, he's Andy/Arab cross and usually pretty good but is def better on the herb than lo cal. First horse was on meadow herb too. No calmers back then :) or balencers. D was much more flighty (Anglo Arab welshy cross) and he did well on it too, enough energy for PC stuff but not nuts :). There's probably lots of good feed you can try and it is worth experimenting to find the right one. Balencers can be fab but they don't suit everyone.

I remember along time ago when I first got D everyone was raving about a new non heating feed that shall remain nameless. I got a bag to try, unfortunately one ingredient did not sit well with D who went nuts on the stuff. My mom claimed his eyes went red :). Horses for courses, one of his best mates loved the stuff. Good luck ;)
 
Thanks fuzzymooch, I was a bit puzzled as looked at the Dengie Meadow one, but that was for maintaining weight and had added oil, he and his Shetland friend do not need any help in mainting weight! ��
 
popsdosh said:
You will happily ride a drugged horse??
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Indeed I would. Not sedated heavily, just with a bit of the tension taken off so he can enjoy learning. I'm sure you're talented and brave enough not to need that sort of help but us mere mortals, I think using all the tools in the box makes sense.

Or do you have some expert insight into the pharmacological effects of the stuff?
 
I am a much calmer person on magnesium. Without it i get migraines with pmt, with it i don't.. I fractured a vertebra years ago and stress causes what i call a neck migraine. It works for me, why should it not for my horse?
 
Ha ha. Nope not the dengue one, Mr C doesn't need help with weight gain either, he could look at astro turf and put on weight! :).

He's been off for a month and will be off another 4 weeks too until after my 8 week check (dd2 just arrived. That's why my replays are at 3 a m) :). He is looking a little portly ATM but not too bad and even with the time of he's not hone crazy. Though his hard feed has been cut (he keeps looking at his bowl wondering where the rest is :)).
 
turnbuckle said:
Indeed I would. Not sedated heavily, just with a bit of the tension taken off so he can enjoy learning. I'm sure you're talented and brave enough not to need that sort of help but us mere mortals, I think using all the tools in the box makes sense.

Or do you have some expert insight into the pharmacological effects of the stuff?
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You obviously dont know how it works in a horse then. It inhibits their spacial awareness and all the problems that may cause(possibly EKW your horse reacting to the effect) I remember my vet telling me about a FEI vet seminar were one of the delegates was given some and had to describe the effect. It was deemed responsible for several falls in eventing of which some had fatal consequences for horse or rider before it was BANNED for competition use.

Ask your vet for Domesedan it does the same thing. LOL
 
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I think you may be thinking of sedalin, which is the same family as the "chemical cosh" they used to use in psych hospitals.

Valerian is a herbal calmer available OTC for humans and animals.

As ever, different subjects react differently. Let's put it this way, I don't think he has any problems with spatial awareness on it :)

But thanks for your concern.
 
Slightlyconfused said:
Take him off the molasses free hi fi as it has alfalfa as well as chopped straw and turns my two into demons.

They are on dengie meadow grass and equivite original and that's it
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is the Molasses Free Hi fi the one in the light lilac plastic sack? I had my mare on the hi fi lite (mid blue colour) for years and she ws fine on it. switched to the Dengie molasses free last autumn on advice, and have only recently worked out there's something in it she's allergic to after a winter of battling an itchy 'hive-y' like skin reaction and scabs.

Recently switched her on to the new Dengie Meadow grass and she's fine again.

Could that be alfalfa related?
 
turnbuckle said:
I think you may be thinking of sedalin, which is the same family as the "chemical cosh" they used to use in psych hospitals.

Valerian is a herbal calmer available OTC for humans and animals.

As ever, different subjects react differently. Let's put it this way, I don't think he has any problems with spatial awareness on it :)

But thanks for your concern.
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I know exactly what Valerian is and it was the cause of several falls a few years back before it was banned. Its your neck!! As the FEI vet said would you ride a time bomb.

Oh and Domesedan is a horse tranquiliser and used with a touch of sarcasm which I admit too.
 
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I try not to get into internet spats, but I do find it very irritating when people quote half-heard "facts" with such assurance. All very well when it's about "does this numnah match" but less so where safety and/or welfare are concerned.

My understanding is that Valerian is banned because it is potentially performance enhancing and nothing more.

If you can provide a link to the evidence behind your claim that would be very helpful.
 
lula said:
is the Molasses Free Hi fi the one in the light lilac plastic sack? I had my mare on the hi fi lite (mid blue colour) for years and she ws fine on it. switched to the Dengie molasses free last autumn on advice, and have only recently worked out there's something in it she's allergic to after a winter of battling an itchy 'hive-y' like skin reaction and scabs.

Recently switched her on to the new Dengie Meadow grass and she's fine again.

Could that be alfalfa related?
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hi fi light (blue bag) contains alfalfa too, so it was unlikely to be that ingredient she reacted to.
 
I ride mine on a valerian-based calmer and have not noticed any ill effects. He has a minimum dose from mid October until after New Year as it helps him deal with the noise of fireworks, which terrify him. However, I don't notice any massive difference when riding - a flurry of shots will still have him ready to run at any second. I do notice a difference, however, in his overall reaction to fireworks - he is much less stressed and box walks (and dungs) less and doesn't sweat up. In fact, I can now leave him in during fireworks having previously having to leave him out and then watch that he didn't run through the fences.

If I didn't ride while he was on his calmer, he would have three months a year off which wouldn't be good for his tiny brain as he always copes better with everything when in regular work. All that said, we don't usually do any particularly speedy work during the time he is on it but he is expected to hack out and behave as normal in traffic - which he does.
 
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