Viewing a youngster, is he overpriced?

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BeepBoop

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Hello,

I'm seeking advice on a horse I am interested in. In particular his price and potentially making an offer (which will hopefully not offend).


The horse I am viewing is a 3 year old black sport horse gelding. He is on the smaller side at the moment (15.3), and needs condition but is a beautiful boy in the making.

He has been broken and lightly ridden, but that is all considering his age. And is now left off for the winter.

Sire is by Obos Quality while dams breeding is partially known. I will say that although I am not the most knowledgeable about bloodlines as long as the animal has good confirmation and ability, I understand that these can bump up a price quite a bit.

My issue is that although I really really like this young man, I wouldn't be able to justify spending over 3500. And in this case, the asking price is 5000 ono, which is a fair bit over budget.

Would it be offensive for me to make an offer on this boy? What would you guys do? Is the price reasonable in your opinion (....meaning am I just stingy😅)

Maybe I am being unreasonable thinking I have a shot at owning this boy....but I cannot help it. Its my own fault for viewing the local ads - I'm a sucker for a sweet eye.


I really appreciate any advice you may offer.
Thank yous!
 
Where prices are concerned, it is how long is a piece of string?

The price doesn't sound out of the way if the horse is nice TBH.

The horse will have cost more then 5K to produce so far. Stud fees, keeping a mare for a year, mare and foal for a year, vets fees, farrier fees, 2 more years' keep bedding/feed/forage, training fees, etc etc.

I paid 8.5k for a recently backed 4yo who would be considered nothing special. Half of his breeding was unknown: the sire was a chunk of an ID, but nothing earth shattering. However, within a few months I had people offering a heck of a lot more because he has that certain something. He is kind and generous and just put together in a pleasing way. He turns his hoof to pretty much anything.

I could sell him several times over without advertising now but he'd not be for sale as he is too lovely! So, some may well have said that I paid too much but I see it differently.

It wouldn't be rude to make an offer, but if I were offered 3.5k for a nice 5k horse, I may be insulted enough not to want to sell to you.
 
That is ridiculously cheap. It would cost £2k a year to keep the horse even on own land. OBOS is well known stallion and his fee alone is £1000. Let alone the horse has been backed which is an investment.

I am not sure what you want the horse for but there is a fair few OBOS at 4/5*. They tend to have strong opinions.
 
I agree with the thought that it has cost more than £5k to produce this horse. He will likely be quite expensive to keep as well with that breeding - not a native that lives on fresh air. If £1.5 more is too much, perhaps this horse isn't for you. £5k for that breeding is very reasonable.
 
If he has been started well and confo and temp reasonable then he is very cheap at 5k.

If you have no intention of paying the asking price then please do not view without saying as such to the seller - I would be seriously pissed off to waste selling time in that situation.

However, none of us know the sellers situation so if they are in a circumstance where they really must sell it’s possible they would take 3.5k. Broach the subject tactfully over the phone (for gods sake don’t tell them their horse is over priced just because you can’t afford it!) and who knows, you may land a bargain

ETA - someone else makes a good point - can you afford to continue with the production of a young sporthorse?
 
I have been looking at prices and there is a huge divide, and depending on the breeding £3.5 is fair, if its a bit lean you wonder if they have been feeding it enough and with the price of hay this winter unless they have their own hay, and even then there may be more profit selling the hay on.
If its cheaper just because they are tight on fodder that's a good reason for it to be less money, but if its got SH breeding pushing something that is growing is a bit of a concern. They are really better left until four, they may still grow but its not in spurts
What ever you pay for it you have to factor in your costs over the winter and it sounds as if it's a store until spring. If you feed it properly it may have growth spurt and be a bit of a wonky donkey.
I buy cheap horses if I can and young horses eat a lot usually, I like some known breeding but honestly the horse in front of you is what you are buying.
 
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honetpot said:
I have been looking at prices and there is a huge divide, and depending on the breeding £3.5 is fair, if its a bit lean you wonder if they have been feeding it enough and with the price of hay this winter unless they have their own hay, and even then there may be more profit selling the hay on.
If its cheaper just because they are tight on fodder that's a good reason for it to be less money, but if its got SH breeding pushing something that is growing is a bit of a concern. They are really better left until four, they may still grow but its not in spurts
What ever you pay for it you have to factor in your costs over the winter and it sounds as if it's a store until spring. If you feed it properly it may have growth spurt and be a bit of a wonky donkey.
I buy cheap horses if I can and young horses eat a lot usually, I like some known breeding but honestly the horse in front of you is what you are buying.
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3.5k is not fair!! You can’t get a foal to weaning for that money now, let alone keep it for another 3 years and invest in having it backed.
 
Red-1 said:
Where prices are concerned, it is how long is a piece of string?

The price doesn't sound out of the way if the horse is nice TBH.

The horse will have cost more then 5K to produce so far. Stud fees, keeping a mare for a year, mare and foal for a year, vets fees, farrier fees, 2 more years' keep bedding/feed/forage, training fees, etc etc.

I paid 8.5k for a recently backed 4yo who would be considered nothing special. Half of his breeding was unknown: the sire was a chunk of an ID, but nothing earth shattering. However, within a few months I had people offering a heck of a lot more because he has that certain something. He is kind and generous and just put together in a pleasing way. He turns his hoof to pretty much anything.

I could sell him several times over without advertising now but he'd not be for sale as he is too lovely! So, some may well have said that I paid too much but I see it differently.

It wouldn't be rude to make an offer, but if I were offered 3.5k for a nice 5k horse, I may be insulted enough not to want to sell to you.
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I paid £8000 4 years ago for a newly backed quality cob from a reputable breeder.I bought her for her temperament. I have had to invest quite a lot in her training which I expected.She has turned out to be a little gem and she will never be on the open market as too many people are interested in her.
 
If your budget is 3.5K then you can get OTTBs. If you have the skill for a young sport horse then that might suit. I know one with a fab tempermant that I almost bought myself! And had arranged to have on trial till the buyer changed their mind about a trial period. Lightly raced at 3 (not 2) and retired sound. With race horses their value is in their racing career and they are therefore cheap. Or a horse bred carelessly or accidentaly. It's odd the mare is unkniwn as the stud fee is high for OBOS. So there may be a story there. I did once buy a pony by a well known racing stallion who got in with an unregistered fell pony mare. Created a cracking pony sized horse.

If you buy carelesslty or accidentally bred youngsters they will not necessarily have had good care up to 3. Which can impact longevity etc. Worm burden, feed, turnout, socialisation eyc.
 
TheMule said:
3.5k is not fair!! You can’t get a foal to weaning for that money now, let alone keep it for another 3 years and invest in having it backed.
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You may not think its fair but unless its is something exceptional its realistic. I have breed my own so I know the costs, from stud to four, and very rarely do you cover your costs. That's is why I now buy them up to two when people have run out of time, money or its become a handling problem and sell at four, easily.
 
honetpot said:
You may not think its fair but unless its is something exceptional its realistic. I have breed my own so I know the costs, from stud to four, and very rarely do you cover your costs. That's is why I now buy them up to two when people have run out of time, money or its become a handling problem and sell at four, easily.
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You find me a well bred3yr old 15.3 sport horse for sale for 3.5k then….
 
Not commenting as others have done on whether this is insulting or if you're deluded, but...

I saw an ad yesterday for a nice and well bred ISH gelding - 3 years old, gently backed, nice loose jump, 16hh, for 4k. I'd say that the 5k on this horse you are looking at is fair for the time of year, breeding and if he seems generally nice, and that offering a reduction of 30% is a bit too low.

As a seller I wouldn't take it if he's only just advertised, but if you are serious about him, if he's still for sale in 3 weeks it may be worth an offer of 4k. Assuming you have the funds to vet him if you intend to, keep him through winter, extra for contingency (injury etc), and either the capability or budget to bring him on as a 4 year old.
 
It costs a hell of a lot to breed, stud fees etc and breeders seldom make their money back, most of them are in it for the love of the horses/ they do it as a hobby and have something else as their main source of income....

As a rough guideline - I paid £6,000 for Rabbit my 2.5 year old when he was 8 months old.

He has exceptional breeding, his breeder installed some wonderful ground manners, had me over for some handling sessions, he had a full health care panel done to check for any possible problems that could occur, he was lorry trained, papers all organised and signed over, used to wearing a rug, used to turnout with other horses and used to turnout on his own amongst many other things.

Fast forward now and anyone who handles him is so complimentary of his ground manners, he is so easy to do in every way, everything I've taught him so far he has taken in his stride and nothing really bothers him - I took him to his first show within 2 months of having him and had several people offer me over 10k for him on the spot.

The youngster you're looking at sounds like quite a good quality horse and has the potential to be a real superstar - if you're serious about him, I would look at ringing his breeder and being totally upfront about your budget - who knows - they may have something up and coming they're yet to advertise that they would be happy to sell for 3.5k x
 
You may find a bargain - I bred 2, only intending to keep 1 and sold Felix to someone on my yard for far less than he cost me to get to 3. Or people's circumstances change so they are desperate. So there is no harm in emailing the seller. But as said above, the messaging in my view should be, he looks a lot of horse for the price and I'm sure you'll have plenty of interest, but in case you are struggling to find him a suitabe home, would you consider offers? And be clear why you feel you can offer a fab home. Sometimes home really is more important than price....
 
Abacus said:
Not commenting as others have done on whether this is insulting or if you're deluded, but...

I saw an ad yesterday for a nice and well bred ISH gelding - 3 years old, gently backed, nice loose jump, 16hh, for 4k. I'd say that the 5k on this horse you are looking at is fair for the time of year, breeding and if he seems generally nice, and that offering a reduction of 30% is a bit too low.

As a seller I wouldn't take it if he's only just advertised, but if you are serious about him, if he's still for sale in 3 weeks it may be worth an offer of 4k. Assuming you have the funds to vet him if you intend to, keep him through winter, extra for contingency (injury etc), and either the capability or budget to bring him on as a 4 year old.
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This is a very sensible comment. The market is funny at the moment, I am looking for a cheap horse currently (I am tight!) and know exactly where I'm prepared to compromise to get what I want. It is surprising how many people are prepared to take quite a substantial offer when the horse has been on the market a while. We are rapidly approaching winter, feed and hay prices are through the roof, and if you don't have your own land you are paying livery every month on a horse you want to sell.

I probably wouldn't offer 3.5k but I might have offered 4, however, I would always ask the seller in advance if it's worth coming to see the horse with my budget. Once I've gone to see the horse then there would need to be something about the horse that meant I was no longer prepared to pay 5k but would pay 4, and I would (nicely) explain my reasoning.
 
As almost everyone else has said, he is already cheap at £5k.

If you want to offer, please make the seller aware BEFORE you view- without knowing their circumstances and how desperate they are to sell, they might consider it.
However would be very rude to view and waste their time if £3.5k is your limit and they aren't aware.
 
millitiger said:
As almost everyone else has said, he is already cheap at £5k.

If you want to offer, please make the seller aware BEFORE you view- without knowing their circumstances and how desperate they are to sell, they might consider it.
However would be very rude to view and waste their time if £3.5k is your limit and they aren't aware.
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This.
It would cost the owner more than the price difference to keep this youngster properly through the winter, irrespective of her time, so you could phone explaining your low offer and ask her to keep you in mind if his actual viewings come to nothing. She can always slam the phone down if insulted, but may really need to sell and you might just find a bargain if no one else snaps him up. And the fact of him remaining unsold isn’t necessarily a reflection of value, rising costs and patchy availability of supplies are definitely affecting the market, now. Welsh sales imminent, might be an interesting barometer, natives are comparatively cheap to keep!
 
5k is very cheap for the horse you've described, I thought you were going to say double that.
However, you never know what someone's motivation is for selling, so it might be worth contacting the seller, and telling them your budget and why you'd be a good home for the horse, and then asking if it's worth you visiting the horse.
But don't waste their time turning up with no intention of paying the very cheap asking price.
 
I do actually know an exceptionally well bred (eventing/SJ) young horse currently available for 5k (unbroken). That is due to a change in circumstances of the owner/breeder and needing to move the horse on before the winter, so I have sympathies with the owners of the horse in the OP. But 3.5k would be too cheap.
 
TheMule said:
You find me a well bred3yr old 15.3 sport horse for sale for 3.5k then….
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As I said I buy the horse in front of me, for the job that most people want to do. The reason I get before three as most people, and its getting worse. have no idea how to keep young horses, and I have bought well bred SH and SHP for not a lot of money, but the breeding was only important because it gives them brand to sell on with. This means when I sell I am not looking at asking a huge price when selling unbroken. Breaking puts at least £1500 -2000 on the cost and if you are paying someone else to do it and you are taking a risk. Getting them before three and if they have any handling issues you have a chance of sorting them.

Its a long time since I have been an watched or stewarded local competitions but IME most people just need a a willing sound horse, not a well bred SH, unless they are going for breed specific classes.
If results depended only on breeding it would be a lot easier to pick a winner racing, even champions breed duds. I have seen enough young stock where even if they are a full sibling to a champion, they are no way alike to their competition winning brother or sire. I am one of those sad people who go over show catalogues look at breeding trend/ connections.

If I was buying the horse in question I would really probe in why they were selling. I would class it as store and turn it out and feed it and not even class it as backed, and start with hopefully clean slate in spring. You offer what you think it is worth to you. One offer I made they got back to me two months later.
People have offered me less than the asking price, that is part of the selling process.
 
honetpot said:
As I said I buy the horse in front of me, for the job that most people want to do. The reason I get before three as most people, and its getting worse. have no idea how to keep young horses, and I have bought well bred SH and SHP for not a lot of money, but the breeding was only important because it gives them brand to sell on with. This means when I sell I am not looking at asking a huge price when selling unbroken. Breaking puts at least £1500 -2000 on the cost and if you are paying someone else to do it and you are taking a risk. Getting them before three and if they have any handling issues you have a chance of sorting them.

Its a long time since I have been an watched or stewarded local competitions but IME most people just need a a willing sound horse, not a well bred SH, unless they are going for breed specific classes.
If results depended only on breeding it would be a lot easier to pick a winner racing, even champions breed duds. I have seen enough young stock where even if they are a full sibling to a champion, they are no way alike to their competition winning brother or sire. I am one of those sad people who go over show catalogues look at breeding trend/ connections.

If I was buying the horse in question I would really probe in why they were selling. I would class it as store and turn it out and feed it and not even class it as backed, and start with hopefully clean slate in spring. You offer what you think it is worth to you. One offer I made they got back to me two months later.
People have offered me less than the asking price, that is part of the selling process.
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So there isn’t one?
 
Already cheap enough to worry why that might be.

Equally always worth the conversation and being upfront about it especially if homebred, friend got a very nicely bred horse she otherwise wouldn’t have afforded as owners wanted to be able to follow progress etc and were home more important people. She told them her max budget on first contact though
 
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