Viewing an unbroken horse...

madhector

madhector

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 December 2006
Messages
12,679
Location
soon to be up north!
www.darlingdressage.co.uk
I have bought a few horses unbroken before, but all were project or cheapies like the J monster. I have never bought an unbroken youngster with the aim to take it along way. So in viewing them I have just gone on first impressions, confo etc...


However, now off to look at a 4yr old that I would be buying as a potential 'decent' eventer, and am wondering what else to check! I dont want to end up with some thing that is pretty to look at but totally useless (although that is obviously a risk when buying unbroken)


So any advice would be appreciated



Thanks
 
See the horse loose in an arena, lunged and free jumped too I would think
smile.gif
 
Just dont forget to check how reactive it is when you pat around the saddle area and ask if you can jump up and down/ put some weight on his back.

I'll never make that mistake again!
 
Will you be able to see it loose-schooled over a fence? Even if you can, the vendors shouldn't be expecting decent money for a 4yo unless it is ridden away. I'd be suspicious that it hasn't been broken yet. We're in the process of returning a 4yo to her owner who arrived to be re-backed and ridden on. She's lovely but has funny muscles in her neck and a couple of other warning signs and the physio suspects wobbling if we press on with her training. Have had 2 other youngsters who arrived with physical issues from accidents as youngsters which didn't show up until they went into ridden work for more than a few weeks - so I wouldn't buy a horse of that age unridden unless (as with your previous ones) it is a cheapy project. I'm deeply suspicious of the excuses people give for why horses haven't been broken and ridden on - and experience has taught me that it is right to be! Sorry if I sound like a real pessimist.
 
Loose schooling over fence- check first reaction. If it balks , dont buy. If it just takes it all in its stride, lowers its head to look carefully and then takes on the challenge without backing off t, and then jumps nicely, then definately buy.
Think this first reaction to loose jumping is ever so important- it seperates the natural, willing and brave jumpers from the not natural and willing.
Check movement- must be straight and through
 
I would ask a very detailed history of any work done with it and its reactions - i.e. picking feet up, tying up etc, to get an idea of its attitude. Although i agree with the above, twoof my horses, who were the boldest things to jump EVER! my main issue was stopping them - one would jump out the side of a jumpinhg lane at 1m50 rather than jump a 3ft fence at the end he was 15.2, and the other will not go near a fence without a lunge line or a person, but never stops or bats an eyelid at anything when on the lunge or ridden!
If its only been handled from the left, make a fuss all over its right side - I helped back one who was a saint until your leg touched its offside - took two months to get over it!
 
Trying mum I am afraid I disagree with your response, we sometimes have four year olds unbroken purely due to having too many to do at once, or pressure of other things limiting our time. I am highly offended that you think any four year old I offer may be suspect.
I think you've just been unlucky seeing ones with problems, I always put any vet welcome in my ad attempting to show we really don't have anything to hide.
Not every breeder is dishonest you know!
I would be looking at it's general attitude, from it's behaviour in the stable to when it's lunged. (it should be possible to lunge it gently even if it's a beginner)
I am not a huge fan of judging them by loose schooling, one mare we had someone view aged 3 flatly refused to jump a pole, but now has a prolific comp record at everything from SJ to HT.. !
I would try and find out before you view if the horse has any siblings, and what sort of ride it's sire and dam were. If both were good comp horses it's not unreasonable to expect this chap to be the same.
You are taking a gamble with a youngster, but if it's the bay, he looks really useful and as if he would end up a stunning sort of horse.
 
Agree with the above !! I've just had a six year old mare broken, she hasn't been done until now because I wanted a foal from her by a stallion that I knew was about to exported.
The older homebred horse wasn't broken until he was five because I didn't have time to do it myself, & couldn't afford to pay anyone else to !!
My offer to show you around Cornwall still stands if this doesn't work out, & a visit to our very own Henryhorn certrainly wouldn't be a waste of time either!!
 
i bought my 4 year old unbroken in january. went to see him with my trainer and have to say i thought it was the ugliest horse i'd ever seen- would have got straight back in car if i'd been on my own
shocked.gif
however, my trainer knows V's dad and knew his mum and his grandad is Handel and she has 2 Handel horses herself so she knows that he could be promising... then saw him loose in school and liked his movement- straight, expressive without being over the top, good overtrack and saw him loose jumped but not over anything huge. liked the fact that he had a good technique and when he knocked one down he came round again and really got his legs out of the way.
went home, watched the vid and then went back the following week to see someone sit on him. they literally legged someone on there and then and i don't think it had ever been sat on before. they walked down the yard on him and that was it. bought him and have to say best buy i've ever made!
grin.gif
(had him 5 stage vetted too
smile.gif
)

good luck!
cool.gif
 
Attitude - my boy was in a barn with about 10 other youngsters the second time I went to see him. He barged his way through them all to get to the gate to see me first. Made me think he had confidence and bravery.

Saw him loose in the school and all he wanted to do was follow me. Saw him move free and loose jump - he moved freely and easily - not a world beater but nice walk overtrack, decent trot (which is the easiest pace to improve) and an amazing canter. He jumped over a small grid freely, with beautiful technique, but still looked carefully before attempting it - it would have worried me if he had just popped it (would make me think he had been loose jumped loads - not good for a 3yo)!

Made lots of observations on his conformation, esp feet/limbs - good feet, matching pair, pasterns not too upright/sloping etc etc. He had nice, soft eyes, but intelligent looking.

First time I saw him (like Diggerbez) I thought he was scruffy (mane down to knees, heavy winter coat), small and wirey. But, he had a kind eye and interested disposition. But you need a lot of imagination with youngsters, and I had done a lot of research on his siblings, sire and damline - who all have a similar stamp and have been graded with high marks at KWPN, so had an inkling about how he might develop.

The family history was an indication and a bonus, but what did it for me was the 'gut feeling'. Couldn't stop thinking about him, and wondering how he would turn out!!

Also took a number of different people with me over the two viewings for their opinion, and they had similar thoughts, which cemented my decision.
grin.gif


He can be a sod now tho, but love him nevertheless!
grin.gif
grin.gif
grin.gif
grin.gif
 
When I went to see mine as an unbroken 5yo, I liked him very much and we connected immediately, even though I was just standing at the side watching him. I think if you don't feel that way then it's not worth it and there'll be another horse out there. If you only want to produce something up to, say, Novice and then sell it on, it maybe doesn't matter so much, but if you're wanting something to produce to go as far as you can go, then you're looking for a partner.
 
i'd go on attitude, movement, and ideally see it over a fence loose... even if it's just a small X pole it will give you some idea.
a friend paid £££s for a horse with the most amazing loose jump though, and she swore that it never jumped anything like that under saddle, so i don't think it's the be-all and end-all.
i wouldn't be at all put off a 4 yr old that was unbroken, i've left a few of mine till they were 4 till i've backed them, as i'm not tiny and i'm always first up, and they needed longer to mature first.
if you want to see another 1 to compare, i was at Groomsbridge yesterday and she has a v nice 3 yr old (4 next year) unbroken, with good lines for eventing and a really great attitude for it, i thought of you immediately. you could do BYEH and stuff...
wink.gif
wink.gif
 
I agree with O_B - except I don't depend on actual loose jumping, just jumping on the lunge. I have always asked to see an unbroken horse jumped on the lunge even if its never done it previously and as O_B says, if it baulks at it then I wouldn't touch. Normally they just pop over no problem though. I put way more on their attitude and temperament than anything else though.
 
I sold my unbroken 4yr old yesterday.

Folks came, saw her in stable, trotted up on yard, loose in the school. Had a poke and a prod and they decided they'd have her.

Passed 2 stage vetting this morning and is being collected on Monday.

Didn't sell her for megabucks but did sell her to a good, long term home which to me, was more important.
 
As above, I would need to see it loose, on decent footing and with enough space to canter properly.

On the free jumping, I would want to see a horse I was buying to jump free jump. BUT free jumping is actually quite tricky to do well and it's entirely possible to put a horse off completely or make even a good one jump like a wheelbarrow if it's not done properly. If it's not possible to see it jump loose constructively I'd like to see if jump on the longe IF it longes reasonably well, but I'd prefer to do it myself unless the seller is very confident and/or has practised with the horse. I think if someone wants decent money for an unbroken horse you need to be able to see it loose.

There are certain conformational aspects that make for good jumpers so I'd look for those if there was no possibility to jump it but it's not all about mechanics either, so I'd like some chance to judge the mental component if possible.

On the subject of unstarted horses, free jumped constructively by experienced people, I have to say it's been my personal experience it IS a good indicator of how the horse is going to jump under saddle, or at least how well it CAN jump. Having now seen quite a few horses do free jumping competitions/inspections then followed their development, I'd have to say other factors have intervened to make them less than optimum jumpers in the long run. I really don't think all the big "jumping books" are doing it just for the heck of it. By the same token, I've seen horses that should jump well get taught to jump horribly loose, then "regain" their form under saddle. (I've also seen some get so wrecked free jumping that their wrong ideas carry into their under saddle training.) I'm not saying their aren't talented jumpers that don't jump well free but I don't think it's about natural talent at that point.

For an eventer I'd want something that jumps with its forearms out in front. Many of the top sj lines DON'T jump this way naturally, although they may be athletic and successful jumpers. I think it's an underestimated factor in xc safety and success.

All that said, the stamp of the horse and the way he's put together and uses what he's got are important too, especially in an eventer. It's not just what he does, it's how he does it.

There was a French study that consisted of doing 25 separate tests (moving away from pressure, walking over a frightening object, navigating a maze of poles etc) on a group of horses when they were very young (foals or yearlings, can't remember which) then following them in their training and competitive careers to see if there was a correlation between the early markers. I wish I could find the results again because they certainly suggested there are ways to tell a great deal about a horse's POTENTIAL future success (training had more to do with success than talent/natural ability BUT the best training didn't make up for the lack of it) at a very early stage.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top