Viewing: love the horse but has lumps & bumps! WWYD?

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

MiJodsR2BlinkinTite

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OK, bearing in mind the owner may be on here, I'm changing just a few wee details in order to remain incognito..... which won't affect the true facts of the situation.

OK so went to view a horse. Lovely girl, loved her to bits, exactly what I'm looking for in every respect, i.e. a happy hacker but also will do fun rides, hunt, maybe a bit of TREC, etc etc. Temperament to die for. She is 12.

Mare is currently on loan near to me with a mother and daughter share. They seem genuinely fond of her, giving up the loan because daughter is a bean-pole and too small for the mare who is only 14hh.

Owner is asking £3300 which includes tack. OK so that's pricey for a happy hacker I know that, but mare HAS done a helluva lot inc Inter Hunt relay at County Show level, Pony Club, etc. So a proven track record.

She hacks alone nicely and also wasn't fazed by meeting a string from another yard when I took her out.

BUT.... and here is the big "but". She has a splint on her Off Fore, plus a nodule on her knee, on the same foreleg. So two things wrong with one leg basically. The knobbly outcrop on her knee feels like a splint in the wrong place kind of thing, and to be fair hasn't bothered her so far. The splint is a splint, these things happen, but I took a friend with me for a second viewing yesterday morning and she (as a professional rider) raised concerns about two things wrong on one leg, and that even though this little mare has temperament to die for, isn't worth the £3300 price tag.

Owner won't budge on price, says "she's worth every penny of that and if you think its too much then there's others, like ten people plus behind you in the queue who are still waiting for viewing, who WILL pay that for her". When I said that I didn't want either the saddle or the bridle, neither of which fit her, she said that Oh the saddle is only worth about £100 quid anyway and I'd only be prepared to knock of £50 for it!!! FFS!

Friend thinks I'm daft in the head to even consider this one: she considers the mare to be grossly overpriced and I'd get a lot more for my money if I just wait until the market picks up as it will in the autumn. Friend is also a judge and says that if this mare appeared in her showring for say WHP or even Family Pony, she'd send her straight to the bottom of the line as it would deffo mean that she'd never be able to be placed in any showing class and any judge would say the same.

Me? I love this little horse, she's gorgeous, and I love her to bits!! Can't help myself - she is EVERYTHING I want, plus some: however the leg cannot be ignored.

I am asking my vet to take a look: I respect his opinion and know that he will give an unbiased opinion. The two questions paramount in my mind will be (1) what sort of problems, if any, might this knee/leg pose in the immediate future and beyond, and (2) what sort of detraction, value-wise, would it have on the value of the horse.

Depending on the result of the vetting, I'm inclined to take an envelope full of notes - and (depending on what the vet says regarding reduction of value because of this leg) adjust the asking price accordingly - and proffer it to the owner alongside the phrase that she either takes it or I walk away, up to her. To call her bluff basically, which will be risky, and hard if it doesn't work out coz I'll lose this little mare. Friend says that seller struggle to sell a mare with a very obvious issue (which was never declared in the original FB ad) and that whilst she may say that yes people will willingly snap the mare up PDQ, when it comes to forking out in excess of £3000 and a possibly negative vetting, tiz a totally different matter. Seller lives at least an hours drive away from loaner's yard and therefore will have to go through the whole process again with another punter - only to have them request a vetting and the whole shaboodle starts again......... so friend thinks that I may have the trump card, but that seller is being exceedingly greedy and is frankly taking the P!ss big-time about the price.

So folks, what do you think? Sorry I can't provide photos as can't ever seem to post them on here (plus would identify the mare as she's quite distinctive)..........

WWYD?

Thoughts??? Unfortunately I've fallen in love with this little mare which makes it very hard, but my gut instinct is that the very very top asking price should be no more than £2500 if that......
 
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Don't go to see ponies you think are tooexpensive and then are not as described, let them find someone else.
If you ever buy anything make it clear it needs to pass a 5 stage vetting and suit your purpose. BEFORE YOU ARRANGE VISIT.
 
mijodsr2blinkintite said:
ok, bearing in mind the owner may be on here, i'm changing just a few wee details in order to remain incognito..... Which won't affect the true facts of the situation.

Ok so went to view a horse. Lovely girl, loved her to bits, exactly what i'm looking for in every respect, i.e. A happy hacker but also will do fun rides, hunt, maybe a bit of trec, etc etc. Temperament to die for. She is 12.

Mare is currently on loan near to me with a mother and daughter share. They seem genuinely fond of her, giving up the loan because daughter is a bean-pole and too small for the mare who is only 14hh.

Owner is asking £3300 which includes tack. Ok so that's pricey for a happy hacker i know that, but mare has done a helluva lot inc inter hunt relay at county show level, pony club, etc. So a proven track record.

She hacks alone nicely and also wasn't fazed by meeting a string from another yard when i took her out.

But.... And here is the big "but". She has a splint on her off fore, plus a nodule on her knee, on the same foreleg. So two things wrong with one leg basically. The knobbly outcrop on her knee feels like a splint in the wrong place kind of thing, and to be fair hasn't bothered her so far. The splint is a splint, these things happen, but i took a friend with me for a second viewing yesterday morning and she (as a professional rider) raised concerns about two things wrong on one leg, and that even though this little mare has temperament to die for, isn't worth the £3300 price tag.

Owner won't budge on price, says "she's worth every penny of that and if you think its too much then there's others, like ten people plus behind you in the queue who are still waiting for viewing, who will pay that for her". When i said that i didn't want either the saddle or the bridle, neither of which fit her, she said that oh the saddle is only worth about £100 quid anyway and i'd only be prepared to knock of £50 for it!!! Ffs!

Friend thinks i'm daft in the head to even consider this one: She considers the mare to be grossly overpriced and i'd get a lot more for my money if i just wait until the market picks up as it will in the autumn. Friend is also a judge and says that if this mare appeared in her showring for say whp or even family pony, she'd send her straight to the bottom of the line as it would deffo mean that she'd never be able to be placed in any showing class and any judge would say the same.

Me? I love this little horse, she's gorgeous, and i love her to bits!! Can't help myself - she is everything i want, plus some: However the leg cannot be ignored.

I am asking my vet to take a look: I respect his opinion and know that he will give an unbiased opinion. The two questions paramount in my mind will be (1) what sort of problems, if any, might this knee/leg pose in the immediate future and beyond, and (2) what sort of detraction, value-wise, would it have on the value of the horse.

Depending on the result of the vetting, i'm inclined to take an envelope full of notes - and (depending on what the vet says regarding reduction of value because of this leg) adjust the asking price accordingly - and proffer it to the owner alongside the phrase that she either takes it or i walk away, up to her. To call her bluff basically, which will be risky, and hard if it doesn't work out coz i'll lose this little mare. Friend says that seller struggle to sell a mare with a very obvious issue (which was never declared in the original fb ad) and that whilst she may say that yes people will willingly snap the mare up pdq, when it comes to forking out in excess of £3000 and a possibly negative vetting, tiz a totally different matter. Seller lives at least an hours drive away from loaner's yard and therefore will have to go through the whole process again with another punter - only to have them request a vetting and the whole shaboodle starts again......... So friend thinks that i may have the trump card, but that seller is being exceedingly greedy and is frankly taking the p!ss big-time about the price.

So folks, what do you think? Sorry i can't provide photos as can't ever seem to post them on here (plus would identify the mare as she's quite distinctive)..........

Wwyd?

Thoughts??? Unfortunately i've fallen in love with this little mare which makes it very hard, but my gut instinct is that the very very top asking price should be no more than £2500 if that......
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walk away. This is toooooooooooooo expensive.
 
Bonkers2 said:
Don't go to see ponies you think are tooexpensive and then are not as described, let them find someone else.
If you ever buy anything make it clear it needs to pass a 5 stage vetting and suit your purpose. BEFORE YOU ARRANGE VISIT.
Click to expand...

Agree: BUT the owner did NOT declare this problem on the advert! If she'd declared it, then I wouldn't have a problem, but she didn't.

The advert gave no indication that she wasn't clean-limbed - and the price would have been acceptable bearing in mind that the temperament of the mare is absolutely superb.
 
If the vet is ok with the leg I would say you're likely to have to pay the asking price a sensible horse that does all the things this one does is easy to sell .
If you had a vet to one of my horses and the vet was ok with the horse and you THEN tried to reduce the price I would show you the door .

Fatty OS foreleg passed the vet with a splint and what we call his knee splint which I assume is what you're seeing on this horse seven years on the legs given no trouble .
 
Do you want to show her? From your post it doesn't seem like that is too high priority. If not - why would it matter what a show judge might think? (And blemishes have nothing to do with Family Pony..)

Its prudent to find out what the issues are with the leg - and bear in mind that having done any insurance will exclude the entire leg on principle just because you asked. If its a ticking time bomb would you walk away? Or just use it as an excuse to get a reduction in price?

But other than that... horses are worth what people are prepared to pay. I tend to agree with your friend that it is vastly overpriced for what it is - but if you are that head over heels then if you can afford it the price isn't so material. Ideally don't let your heart rule your head. If this is more than you feel the animal is worth walk away. But if she is worth it to you - then its your money.

And take the tack - sounds like you'll get more for it selling it yourself than leaving it with the seller.
 
I doubt that theres many 'been there done that' horses around aged 12 without splints or windgalls. As regards money, a horse that is everything you want is priceless.......
 
I would go with your instincts, you have been looking for a while and know how much real rubbish is out there so to find one that you love that has a "bumpy" knee which may be no more than a blemish, I would totally disregard the splint as long as the pony is sound, if the vet passes her then I think she is worth the asking price as there really are not many safe, fun, well educated happy hackers out there when you really do look.

I think your friend is being overly negative and in reality there will probably be far worse presented in the average local show class that would go below her, manners being a priority in all classes so to make a sweeping statement that she would place her last without taking behaviour into account would be completely unfair and she would be a judge I would avoid however well qualified she may be, I have judged at local level and will always place a well behaved blemished pony over one that misbehaves and hope most decent judges will do the same.

That said you are not buying her to show so as long as she is sound and ticks the boxes it is irrelevant anyway, at the end of the day the purchase price is only the start of the costs involved, if you lose her over a few hundred pounds it may cost you more in time and fuel to continue your search only to end up paying more for another one.
 
Not what you want to hear I know but I would walk away :( There are plenty of others out there that you will fall in love with, without having issues! Keep looking, it'd be gutting if you did buy this one, even for £2k, and had problems quite soon.
 
My reckoning would be if she's sound at 12 with splints, she's probably going to stay sound. The price you pay is up to you and the seller. Plenty of horses with totally clean legs go lame.
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
Agree: BUT the owner did NOT declare this problem on the advert! If she'd declared it, then I wouldn't have a problem, but she didn't.

The advert gave no indication that she wasn't clean-limbed - and the price would have been acceptable bearing in mind that the temperament of the mare is absolutely superb.
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I think people often don't even think about a blemish of this type that has been there possibly for years without giving an issue let alone mention it in an advert, when questioned before going it may have been brought into the conversation but it is not really a major issue in a 12 year old being sold as a hack/ allrounder in the way it would be if being sold as a show horse, not many ponies will get to 12 having had a busy life without something becoming bumpy.
 
Bonkers2 said:
Yes, but the advertiser should mention it, and say "its not a problem",which is a warranty, not to mention and to give no warranty, is bad.
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What value is a warranty from a private seller, if it passes a vetting that is what counts not the seller stating it has not been a problem.
 
splint would not worry me and as long as the nodule was not interfering with the horse and a vet said ok then that would not worry me either. if you had asked if the horse had clean legs and it had not been disclosed then you would have a reason to be a bit meh about not being told beforehand but its certainly not something I would think of telling people about for a horse thats not being sold as a show horse without being specifically asked. If you think the horse is what you want and is otherwise worth the price then pay the price if not walk away as with that record and level of safety the horse will probably sell fairly easily to someone else
 
The leg wouldn't bother me for what you want her for, especially if she has has it a while- though if it is mentioned in the vetting then it may be excluded if you insure.
It would bother me more about the seller's attitude, you're within your rights to have concerns about an unmentioned blemish. Plus the fact the tack doesn't fit and she didn't say anything in response?
As for the price, a horse is worth what someone is willing to pay- £3k for a been there done it all rounder- if she really is that safe then absolutely! People pay a pretty penny for something that is sane sensible and hacks out alone!
 
we bought a mare , 14years old for £2000 . She has a large splint on her back leg and a nodule on her knee . We took the chance and feel she was a bargain . She is jumping newcomers at hickstead and is sound and happy . She did not have a temperament to die for and is not an allrounder . Had we known what a star she would be as a first horse I would have paid more . Price is very subjective isnt it , I have seen a lot worse advertised for a lot more , see what the vet thinks but if she has a really good reputation they will sell her easily for that price .
 
I dont think many people would put 'has splint' on the ad, if you had asked 'is it clean legged' and they answered 'yes' that would be different.
 
I was recently looking for a similar type for a friend recently and for what it's worth I think it's a fair price if it's as safe and experienced as you've found it to be, even with the cosmetic leg issues. People are queuing up to buy up to weight really safe types.
 
When viewing horses it is very rare to really fall in love with one. If you have that gut feeling, and the vet says the horse is okay, then I would pay the asking price. The splint wouldn't bother me at all. The knee nodule needs the vet to advise on. It can be something and nothing. If the thought of someone else buying her pains you, and so long as the vet has no concerns then pay what they are asking. After all, when you add up the cost of livery/keep for a horse, that little bit extra on the purchase price is a drop in the ocean. Good luck.
 
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If you love her get her vetted and if the vet thinks she fit for purpose then buy her.
Don't lose sleep over people thinking you're paying too much, if she's the horse for you then she's worth it.

I wouldn't take too much notice of your friend I'm afraid - if she was judging a family
Pony class and would put it to the bottom of the line for lumps and bumps then she really shouldn't be judging I'm afraid! Lumps and bumps are irrelevant in such a class unless the pony is unsound.

I once bought a pony for my eldest daughter with a splint on each front leg that you could hang your hat on. He never ailed a day, and was placed county level WHP and often won and went champ at local level.

Incidentally I thought the pony above was way overpriced when I bought him, I paid the money over very reluctantly and only because my daughter adored him. With hindsight that pony was worth ten times the price and 10 years on he's still in our field as we couldn't bear to part with him.
As long as this horse is sound lumps and bumps would not deter me in the slightest.
 
Splint wouldn't bother me bought mine with a splint. I would prob get the knee looked at by the vet if the vet doesn't foresee a problem then I would go with your gut feeling!
 
Thank you all.......... plenty of food for thought here.

Am arranging a vetting as soon as the vet can get to it: and we'll see what he says and take things from there.

Yes, I really DO love this little mare and as someone has said, her "price" if you like is the price for something safe and sane............

Will keep you posted folks!
 
Realistically she's overpriced, but saying that, a horse is worth what someone will pay and if she is worth that much to you, passes a vetting and you don't think you
will want to show at any great level, then go for it. You might just kick yourself if you lose out on her.
 
She sounds 'priceless' to me.

I have recently bought a similar type, albeit younger (10) and bigger (16.1hh) for more money.

A vet from a renowned referral practice did a 5 stage vetting on her. She has an old splint just below a knee, and it was described as:-

'There is a 'splint' (bone swelling) on the inner aspect of the left forelimb. This is not painful on palpation and no lameness was observed on straight trot, on the lunge or under saddle and this is of unlikely clinical significance'

I wouldn't worry about an old cold splint, and I wouldn't have expected the vendor to inform you of it unless you had asked.
 
the splint wouldnt bother me but i would be cautious about the lump on knee . i say this because i had my previous horse from age 15 months and when she was 8 she jumped a fence(on her own in the field) and hit the top with her knee....it came up in a lump but she was never lame. however when she was in her late teens she was stiff on that leg and x rays showed an old fracture where the lump was. she had arthritis in that knee and was never properly sound again. i lost her at 24 from other issues but i would want investigation of the knee before purchasing.... if she ticks all your boxes and you really like her it would be worth spending a bit to check the knee but the price sounds a bit high to me as she is only 14 hands....good luck
 
If she's done a lot and has problem leg I would say she's only got a limited life span left for working. I'm sorry but if be running a mile. Head must rule the heart here!
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
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The advert gave no indication that she wasn't clean-limbed - and the price would have been acceptable bearing in mind that the temperament of the mare is absolutely superb.
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Unless the advert says clean limbed you really must assume it's not.

It's going to be a case of seeing what the vet says. If the leg will be uninsurable then I probably wouldn't touch it, but that said, if the pony is as good as you say it is, there will be plenty of pony mums willing to pay that for the safety aspect alone.
 
She is worth what anyone will pay for her. Knowing what I know now with all the unsuitable horses around I would buy her, the price sounds fair - it costs the same to keep a badly behaved one - but I would get the knee looked at. I can't see a splint being a problem.
My boy now has a big knee and it is the only leg he has never been lame on.
 
I'd discard your friend's view tbh, she doesn't sound that knowledgable if she'd put a horse last in family pony due to a splint!

Let the vet look at the knee and give his view.

Regarding price, that is between you and seller but I certainly wouldn't expect a reduction based on what your vet says- the owner knows the horse has a few bumps and a vet confirming that doesn't really change the situation.
 
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