Views about known 'Bolters'....

[TheSylv007]

Think it was pretty clear what the question was/is and opinions were expressed, it's a tricky subject.

Not annoyed , nor see why anyone should be! it's a forum lol

This - seemed like a perfectly clear and sensible question to me!

 

[Illusion100]

Goodness from your description OP I would be avoiding the horse as far as possible. Problem with suggesting people send it to a pro is that it will come back again and if they don't continue with the right handling and riding it will just go back to the same behaviour.

With the behaviour you describe (e.g. the double barrelling) I would have a word with the YO and say you are concerned it is a safety risk and can she intervene to ensure the safety of the other liveries.

Hope things improve!

My only option is to move tbh, however finding a decent yard with spaces is proving a nightmare. Searching for several months now and on a few waiting lists.

Btw, agree with maintaining the 'right' handling after sending a horse away, however it can be easier for the owner however once the worst of the behaviour has been addressed.

 

[cbmcts]

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

Owners do try training the horse, dually, chifney, bridle etc but ineffective if the horse decides to go. The horse is also aggressive towards other horses so has individual paddock.

Do not consider the horse to have any neurological disorder i.e. Misfiring neurons/lesion/ tumour in brain. It is just a bully and does not care what is in it's way. It has bolted through gates, fences etc and also double barrelling at anyone it flies past.

It is most definitely a training issue, owners not experienced enough but they feel as he only does it maybe 1 or 2 times a fortnight it isn't that bad?

Would suggesting sending horse to a Pro be rude?

Rather than suggesting the horse is sent away, tempting as it may be you might get a better result if you or better still the YO, suggest someone coming on site to help with the handling problem. Richard Maxwell or a Natural Horsemanship person would generally be very good for this.

Really the person who should be dealing with this is the YO - these owners need to get their act together before somebody is hurt, it could easily be them after all and who is going to volunteer to handle their horse while they are out of action? Is there a way/technique that could make handling him safer that could be shown to the owners by the YO with an instruction that they must do it this way and an explanation of the reasons why? They might be more inclined to work at the problem if they can see some proper results IYSWIM.

The only other alternative is to leave as soon as you can find somewhere decent to go to because this can only really be sorted by the YO...if they aren't bothered there is no way one livery can force another livery to behave differently.

 

[Illusion100]

Rather than suggesting the horse is sent away, tempting as it may be you might get a better result if you or better still the YO, suggest someone coming on site to help with the handling problem. Richard Maxwell or a Natural Horsemanship person would generally be very good for this.

Really the person who should be dealing with this is the YO - these owners need to get their act together before somebody is hurt, it could easily be them after all and who is going to volunteer to handle their horse while they are out of action? Is there a way/technique that could make handling him safer that could be shown to the owners by the YO with an instruction that they must do it this way and an explanation of the reasons why? They might be more inclined to work at the problem if they can see some proper results IYSWIM.

The only other alternative is to leave as soon as you can find somewhere decent to go to because this can only really be sorted by the YO...if they aren't bothered there is no way one livery can force another livery to behave differently.

The YO(s) are not experienced horsey people either and tend to bury their heads in the sand regarding any safety issues (another reason why I'm searching for new yard!).

I am friendly with owners of said horse and might just have to state my concerns point blank. Not sure how they will take it but hey ho!

There are frequently young children on the yard and I found myself 'herding' them away today when this horse came down onto yard. This must mean something as I'm not maternal at all!

 

[cbmcts]

Well, it has to be worth a go! Maybe look for some info in advance so you point them in the right direction?

Speaking from experience here, it's very difficult to be criticised (even if the criticism is fair) without at least a few possible solutions being offered. Yes, I agree totally that a horse that is known to kick out or go through people for a shortcut should be handled in a way that avoids it getting loose - there are many techniques that can and do work but it'll probably be more effective to work with rather than against the owners in this case. It's all about remembering what result you want rather than being 'right' IYSWIM.

The other thing is that your YOs sound like fools - they are running a business by the definition of taking monies for services rendered so head in sand attitudes really aren't acceptable. Do you think that even if this problem is sorted that there might be another one similar next week/month/year?

 

[Arizahn]

I'd carry on as normal and remain aware that all animals are potentially hazardous to be around.

 

[Arizahn]

I think I know what you mean OP - a type like mine!

He's retired now but he can be dangerous both ridden and on the ground because he's a panic merchant and when he flips, he's in a blind panic and would run through or over people and things...

I managed him by always being cautious - I didn't share schools except by prior arrangement with a friend on a steady horse as a training session. On the yard, he was never left tied up and unsupervised and I shut all gates. He was always led (and still is!) with a leadrope around his nose. At shows he stayed on the lorry until it was time to warm up and he went back on the lorry after classes. It wasn't a major problem because I knew him well enough to know when he was getting upset so could either calm him or remove him from the issue. He's not a bad mannered or malicious animal, just a complete over reactor but that doesn't make any less dangerous when it does kick off.

IME having a horse like this is hard work, not impossible by any means (I've done it for 18 years now!) but you do have to take more responsibility for other peoples actions then you would normally. Mine panics when people around him are nervous so you have to make sure the squealers and screamers, as well as the shouters are kept away - you don't allow them to handle him nor do you ride with them. You're the horrible person who insists that all gates are kept closed and that other liveries keep their kids and dogs close. Your horse gets blamed for all upsets even on the rare occasions that it wasn't his fault! However if you do have an animal like this you do IMHO have to be very on the ball at all times as when it goes wrong, it can go very wrong very quickly.

Just a POV from the other side...

I think you put a lot of effort into managing your horse, and imo that makes you responsible and not horrible

 

[Arizahn]

i ride a horse that used to be a bolter. she was sat on and walked round the lanes at 4yrs then at 5 her owner sent her to be used at a riding school but wasnt honest with the instructor about her education. first lesson she had she panicked and bolted. (she had never been asked to trot with a rider on let alone canter or jump) plus having 7 other horses with her blew her mind. needless to say she wasnt used again and everyone called her dangerous. i worked with her starting from scratch and then gradually introducing more horses when she was ready and now she is a gorgous ride. unfortuantly her reputation is largely known as a "dangerous bolter" so many people stay away from her and if im in the field riding then they will use the school and vice versa. her main test is coming next month when i take her to a local show but i believe she is ready and we will take it slow and steady.

i can understand when the OP says about endangering others as if a horse was to proper bolt then they do so blind increasing the chance of getting "run over" so to speak. but it wouldnt stop me from riding in the same arena as long as you are aware and i found people coming to close when passing used to set mine off so have a little consideration and it should be ok.

NOT ALWAYS but most bolt from fear/pain so personally i would check with the rider of the "bolter" before you do things like dragging poles/wings out so they can move away out of a potentially "scary situation"

When I was first learning to ride (decades ago!), this would have described many of our riding school horses and ponies. We never used the word "bolt"; we called it "taking off", and for a long time, this was simply how Saturday mornings were spent. I hope your show goes well

 

[Illusion100]

Well, it has to be worth a go! Maybe look for some info in advance so you point them in the right direction?

Speaking from experience here, it's very difficult to be criticised (even if the criticism is fair) without at least a few possible solutions being offered. Yes, I agree totally that a horse that is known to kick out or go through people for a shortcut should be handled in a way that avoids it getting loose - there are many techniques that can and do work but it'll probably be more effective to work with rather than against the owners in this case. It's all about remembering what result you want rather than being 'right' IYSWIM.

The other thing is that your YOs sound like fools - they are running a business by the definition of taking monies for services rendered so head in sand attitudes really aren't acceptable. Do you think that even if this problem is sorted that there might be another one similar next week/month/year?

Have already suggested a good Trainer to them a while back but they have decided to persist themselves. They have also asked me to school the horse under saddle for them, which as you can imagine I'm very reluctant to do! The owners are lovely people but, after all, no-one can force them to follow advice!

Yes, YOs are pretty awful really. There are numerous issues with horses on the yard, (e.g. a two yr old left tied up and left unattended which kept rearing, informed owner right away who just said horse was being a silly **** and left it, it got stuck over stable door a few mins later ).

Liveries are pretty much left up to their own devices and YOs happy to leave it that way. I just hope I can move to a more sensible yard asap!

 

[STRIKER]

Suggest they get a chain lead and wrap it around the noseband part of the halter, you do this by bringing it up through the usually clip ring underneath the jaw, and then up the side of the mouth ring, a couple of times around the nose part and then clip it on the otherside of the mouth clip. And when horses prats about give it a good jerk, if its going to run or kick, jerk it, it will soon get the message that it hurts.

 

[Illusion100]

Suggest they get a chain lead and wrap it around the noseband part of the halter, you do this by bringing it up through the usually clip ring underneath the jaw, and then up the side of the mouth ring, a couple of times around the nose part and then clip it on the otherside of the mouth clip. And when horses prats about give it a good jerk, if its going to run or kick, jerk it, it will soon get the message that it hurts.

Hi, thanks for suggestion but would personally feel awful about doing that. I feel chains can be abused without the appropriate level of knowledge and timing with their use and just don't feel right about chains in Novice hands. I fully appreciate where you are coming from though and tbh, this horse need a 'talking to' but with the right conversationalist!

 

[Orangehorse]

Well sometimes a horse needs a good lesson, but I agree that giving novice owners a chain might not be appropriate. I have seen several "natural horsemanship" people in action and if there is a hard case to deal with they can be pretty tough. Not unfair, not violent, but very capable of putting a naughty horse in its proper place. As they say, it might not look pretty but sometimes being strict is the only thing left.
But you don't want someone to come along and beat it up because that could end up being very nasty for everyone.

How worried are the owners of this horse, OP? If they realise they are out of their depth then I would definitely recommend an Intelligent Horsemanship type person, so long as they tell them the whole story and get someone who has dealt with horses like this before, and a promise from the owners that they will take the advice on board.

 

[Illusion100]

Well sometimes a horse needs a good lesson, but I agree that giving novice owners a chain might not be appropriate. I have seen several "natural horsemanship" people in action and if there is a hard case to deal with they can be pretty tough. Not unfair, not violent, but very capable of putting a naughty horse in its proper place. As they say, it might not look pretty but sometimes being strict is the only thing left.
But you don't want someone to come along and beat it up because that could end up being very nasty for everyone.

How worried are the owners of this horse, OP? If they realise they are out of their depth then I would definitely recommend an Intelligent Horsemanship type person, so long as they tell them the whole story and get someone who has dealt with horses like this before, and a promise from the owners that they will take the advice on board.

Have 'entered negotiations' with owners yesterday about the horse. They were very responsive and fully appreciated my concerns. Have accepted the horse needs corrective training and willing to take advice and instruction. All good news!