Vitamin & Mineral Suppliment Analysis - Help Please

Kat

Kat

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My mare has now been barefoot for about a year and I use pro hoof which I am reasonably happy with. But without going into all the whys and wherefores over the last year I have added extras. She seems to need a higher level of copper and magnesium than the pro hoof provided and I have also added extra lysene to the level contained in the forage plus performance balancer as we were struggling to build muscle. She also has fenugreek to help get her to eat up. Then I add salt.

So it ends up being quite a faff, and because the yard mix feeds and I feel guilty about all the faffing I mix it up a few days at a time for them.

I am getting toward the end of my current bag of pro-hoof and was wondering if someone could help me work out whether there is a better way to get the same mix without the faff.

I guess one option would be forage plus performance balancer but that looks very expensive. Are there cheaper options that have most of the ingredients?

The other option would be to buy all the parts and make my own mix so that the yard can just do a scoop of my homemade mix - but I can't work out the quantities I need to make it work or whether it would be any cheaper.

Can anyone who has done this before help me out please?

Thanks
 
what about the forage plus hoof health balancer? I was in a similiar boat to you, was feeding pro hoof but was still suffering from abscesses and needed more copprer, zinc etc.

My horse it still on that much stuff I'm like a chemist but I have all my powders at home and make up yo 30 days worth at a time and put them in those little plastic take away type boxes so all i have to do is add that to the feed.

I think there are people on phoenix that make there own so you could post on the diet section and ask for advice.
 
I looked at the fp and they are all quite pricey, if I was going to use their products I would go for the performance one for the extra lysine.

Haven't been on phoenix for a while will have to post there too.
 
Dengie do a competion balancer its the one in the red tub, this has lysine, magnesium and copper but not sure of the amounts, I think its about £18 lasts my horse about a month, you can feed one to two scoops a day depending on what you want to achieve I suppose, not sure if this would work out cheaper than the forage plus one.
 
We need more mag and copper so we use Forageplus Winter Balancer plus I add extra mag ox, phosphorus, yea saac because our minerals are so out of wack, high iron and calcium. My normally black horse went copper over the summer and now he's back to black again since being on the balancer. I buy in bulk and make 6 weeks worth up at a time.

If u have had a ForagePlus analysis done they will tell u what u need to mix if u want to make your own up.
 
When I compared the various foot friendly balancers, the forage plus has twice the amount as the pro hoof so pound for pound prices are about the same.

On another thread, someone mentioned the equivita balancer which has similar levels to forageplus but because the use copper and zinc sulphate instead of bioplex forms is much cheaper.

The problem with some of the other balancers is even if they have good levels of copper and zinc, they contain iron and manganese
You can save a bit by making it yourself but it is a faff and i buy from 3 or 4 different places to get the best price on things.

To help the yard I've bought little plastic pots from the poundshop and make up one per day so my ym just has to tip it in.

Btw saw your pm, will send you spreadsheet if you let me have email address.
 
KristmasKat said:
I looked at the fp and they are all quite pricey, if I was going to use their products I would go for the performance one for the extra lysine.
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It also has extra selenium which may be very good or not depending on your forage levels.
I used it for a while pre hoof health and when the winter mix was minerals only. Mine did very well on it.
 
KristmasKat said:
My mare has now been barefoot for about a year and I use pro hoof which I am reasonably happy with. But without going into all the whys and wherefores over the last year I have added extras. She seems to need a higher level of copper and magnesium than the pro hoof provided and I have also added extra lysene to the level contained in the forage plus performance balancer as we were struggling to build muscle. She also has fenugreek to help get her to eat up. Then I add salt.

So it ends up being quite a faff, and because the yard mix feeds and I feel guilty about all the faffing I mix it up a few days at a time for them.

I am getting toward the end of my current bag of pro-hoof and was wondering if someone could help me work out whether there is a better way to get the same mix without the faff.

I guess one option would be forage plus performance balancer but that looks very expensive. Are there cheaper options that have most of the ingredients?

The other option would be to buy all the parts and make my own mix so that the yard can just do a scoop of my homemade mix - but I can't work out the quantities I need to make it work or whether it would be any cheaper.

Can anyone who has done this before help me out please?

Thanks
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I've been trying to make decisions about putting my horses on a high spec vitamin and mineral balancer and after all the informative suggestions and recommendations on here - pro hoof, pro balancer, 365 complete, forage plus etc - I happened to view a new balancer on the market at an olympia stand yesterday and have bought a few months supply to try out. They've got a website www.readysupp.com and having looked at the nutritional list they've got a good broad range included at higher levels than a lot of balancers on the market and its well priced - I'm not sure if they have the sort of levels you need but have a look. They were very helpful and I'll look forward to trying out my balancer when it arrives.
 
As far as I can see the retail market for vitamins and minerals is quite competitive, and compared to "supplements" they are great value.
I don't want to bang on, my costings are on other postings, the need for the full recommended dose of minerals assumes they are not on a good quality balanced diet already.
With one horse, one can hardly justify full forage analysis.
I just do not know how anyone can know the exact needs for one horse without a lot of costly analysis.
I know the Bechtolshiemers [sp] do individual minerals for individual competing animals, but they are at the extreme end of the spectrum.
 
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MrsD123 said:
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With one horse, one can hardly justify full forage analysis.
I just do not know how anyone can know the exact needs for one horse without a lot of costly analysis.
I know the Bechtolshiemers [sp] do individual minerals for individual competing animals, but they are at the extreme end of the spectrum.
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Well myself and the people I know might be extreme but yes people do analysis for a single horse.
The analysis and feedplan cost about£120, not cheap but assume I stay at a yard two years and spread the cost over that. Add £18 to that if you had an second horse. Get another person interested and you can halve those costs.

Just the analysis £40 - £60 depending on where you go. Some people have trimmers that can interpret it for them.

It made a huge difference for my horses and represents just over a vets visit or one shoeing with extra special remedial arrangements, not just feet but with things like mud fever. So for me it paid for itself.

The difficulty comes where people have forage brought in from many sources and their grazing is a minimal part of the diet or again varies e.g. summer and winter fields a long way apart.

That's where I have been lucky but many people are not.

Btw when I spoke about someone mixing their own, that was based on using the same quantities as the suppliers we have mentioned who are very open about what their supplements contain and making savings by bulk buying the straights from certain sources.
 
Have you tried speaking to Trinity Consultants? Was very impressed with the work and their supplements.

Out of interest where do you get your lysine from?
 
But the horse won't be getting the same diet in summer and winter, so do you not need two analyses?

The Bechtolsheimers have a mineral mix for each horse, so they must be taking blood samples. That is what I meant by the extreme edge of the spectrum.
 
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MrsD123 said:
I don't want to bang on, my costings are on other postings, the need for the full recommended dose of minerals assumes they are not on a good quality balanced diet already.
With one horse, one can hardly justify full forage analysis.
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Mmm, but the FP one for example is based on the average of mineral deficiencies in forages they have tested. So many forages are deficient in one or more mineral in UK. Some forages have huge excesses which affect absorption of other minerals.
Those of us that don't test forages are guessing based on averages.
I do think if the horse has problems or is working very hard competing etc. then it is worth the expense for a single horse.

I suppose if liveries were so inclined they could all share the expense and buy a bespoke balancer in bulk.

ps. I believe you need to test the forage to see where deficiencies are. Much of the compound feeds may not be needed then but if they are fed, also have to be take into account. Quality forage and a good, ,appropriate balancer is the basic diet providing essentials. The only extra is calories for hard workers. Or am I missing something?
 
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MrsD123 said:
But the horse won't be getting the same diet in summer and winter, so do you not need two analyses?
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My horses get the same range of straights winter and summer but yes I do adjust slightly according to proportions. However bucket feeds play a very small part of my horses diet and in one case is just a carrier for minerals.

All my horses get at least half day turnout all year round so grass is a big part of their diet. Usually they get half a day in with hay so that doesn't change over the year.

At 2 yards the yard produced its own hay from fields that were around, alongside the grazing fields so I got an average of the fields.

2 other yards hay was supplied bv someone across the road so I did the grass only. However I could have done hay too as it was a known supplier.
 
I just found that the time on research, ordering, and preparing feeds was quite significant, I could not have done it if I was busy.
I had to have delivery of minerals but had to go for feedstuffs. every month or so.
I made up the feed in fortnightly batches.
I found I had maybe a months supply of one mineral or mix, two months supply of another and six weeks supply of another, the mineral mixing meant careful weighing and then mixing, and then re-packaging and labelling. I used straight MgO, and two different mineral mixes, one for remedial hoof supplementation and one broad spectrum mineral.
I just felt any more work would be overkill, because I just was looking at the horse, and adjusting to get his feet back to normal, but I don't know what his exact needs are. I don't know that anyone can know exactly what any animal needs exactly. I know when we did analysis of cows intake and output, they were kept in a calorimeter, and it was all very scientific, and maybe some work has been done along these lines. I don't know.
 
dianchi said:
Have you tried speaking to Trinity Consultants? Was very impressed with the work and their supplements.
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Use their tonic (L94???) for support during worming.

dianchi said:
Out of interest where do you get your lysine from?
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Progressive earth on ebay, forageplus or equimins - you will have to email equimins for their secret price list.
 
Got my mixing down to a fine art.

I make up a weeks for two horses in little plastic pots. Row of supplement pots with straight minerals and the correct scoop.

Other times I have made up a huge tub of several weeks worth but it didn't save much time.

Erin - just curious to get your version of the fp at half the price, are you using the same levels of minerals and the same forms of minerals i.e. bioplex copper and zinc and high purity magox.
 
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