Vitamin supp v balancer

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sykokat

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Ok, which is best? Have had our 2 on spillers original balancer but thinking about changing to a complete vitamin supplement as they are looking 'well' after winter and the balancers do seem to 'keep the weight on' if you get my drift! I would want something that has the right additives for joints as one of them is a wee bit stiff. Any suggestions ?? :)
 
your asking the same question im thinking right now, mines on suppliment but i want a balancer haha so opposite way round, she looks well on chaff and suppliment but ive increased her workload so im thinking she needs the extra calories ! i think it depends on workload and type if she holds her weight well and a suppliment can give her her daily dose then sups are fine but if you need the extra condition them maybe keep to the balancer ??, can you get a general vit sup them add a joint sup to the pony that needs it,

Im not really much help am i lol x
 
He he - balancers are a mystery to me so will also be reading this thread with interest! I feed feedmark's benevit with a very small handful of chaff (non mollassed) as my boy is looking a little too well at the mo and don't want to have anything remotely fattening.
 
lol , yes ill be reading along too..... thats the trouble mines on alpha a for her protien to help her muscle up start ( has no topline, been out of work a year with previous owner ) but wasnt doing a lot of work ( just lunging long and low ) so didnt really need the extra oommpphh as i didnt want her turning into miss tubby, then spring grass thrown into the equation im stumped ! i may wait and she how she holds out on the grass, im so confused lol
 
Balancers have all the vits n mins plus extra protein and calories usually which is why a horse does well. If you feed Balancers, there is no need to add more feed, usually just chaff unless you soak it e.g. For oldies or babies.

There is a mind boggling array of Balancers and powder vit n min sups. The latter lack any extra calories the proteins and oils such as soy or wheat provide.

Personally, my adult horse, did not get a balancer nor vit n min supplement after advice from various sources after his lami, because I believe it is too broad and I do not know what I am balancing against. So, I had my grazing tested and found out that the grass had all the horse needed except magnesium. So, I added magnesium oxide. He had slightly soft hooves so needed calcium which I added with alfalfa, and copper was also needed. He did have arthritis in his hinds and so I added linseed and acv. I take acv myself now for my joints as he improved so well.

So, my experience of Balancers and vit n min supps are that you may not need it and is expensive way to keep a horse in top condition. However, both are useful if you know you need everything in them.
 
i used to feed both mine different balancers, however as above wasnt sure what they actually needed. i now feed the pony nuts,chaff and pink powder. i would recommend the pink powder they both look amazing and since being on it my fizzy 5 year old seems much calmer
 
asommerville said:
i used to feed both mine different balancers, however as above wasnt sure what they actually needed. i now feed the pony nuts,chaff and pink powder. i would recommend the pink powder they both look amazing and since being on it my fizzy 5 year old seems much calmer
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We had terrible problems when using PP. Actually came to ahead when I couldn't get PP over Christmas so got Haylage Balancer instead, seemed to have pretty much the same ingredients. The riding horses' behaviour became very off, even the bombproof laid-back Draft horse was jogging and her unshod back hooves were obviously uncomfortable on tracks. We took them off it immediately and behaviour improved so much that we realised that they hadn't really been right ever since starting PP. We now give them Brewer's yeast as the PP/HB was to stop 'the runs'.
We have, over the years had problems with different supplements that we always gave for good reasons - seaweed sent 4 horses loopy, that was found to be mouldy (bought from a reputable supplier) - Devil's Claw caused excessive seasonal bleeding in an ex-broodie - glucosamine caused all sorts of problems in ID.
We have now decided that we won't give any supplements unless we know exactly what the ingredients are and that the horse NEEDS every one of them. The only way to find out exactly what the horse needs IMO, is to have a blood test to find out any deficiencies.
 
Ah, yes brewers yeast, yea sacc etc are now added in commercial stuff I have noticed... I do add brewers yeast too (or yea sacc).

ACV is apple cider vinegar.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
The only way to find out exactly what the horse needs IMO, is to have a blood test to find out any deficiencies.
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It's my understanding that a blood test will only provide a snapshot in time of what is in the horse's system on that day, and is unreliable for this purpose (the exception being whole blood selenium levels).

A more broader and long term view is to test the grazing/forage and build a mineral profile from there.
 
sykokat said:
Ok, which is best? Have had our 2 on spillers original balancer but thinking about changing to a complete vitamin supplement as they are looking 'well' after winter and the balancers do seem to 'keep the weight on' if you get my drift! I would want something that has the right additives for joints as one of them is a wee bit stiff. Any suggestions ?? :)
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Which is best? Depends on which colour packaging you like.

Each company titrates their feeds/balancer/vit supplement according to the NRC recommendation - which provides levels of vitamins and minerals at a level to avoid full blown deficiency.

This is not the same as providing enough for excellent health.

The truth is that most horses can manage extremely well on grass and hay/haylage alone up to hard work.

They are almost always able to meet their vitamin requirements with forage, sunlight and their own internal bacteria. The exception being Vitamin E, which can be beneficial to elderly horses or Insulin Resistant horses.

What horses do suffer with is unbalanced mineral balance in the forage they are eating.

High levels of iron, maganese and calcium and low levels of zinc and copper seem to be a common trend. Most minerals interact with each other, so too high in one thing affects the absorption of the other. Mineral balancing software rarely understands this (other than calcium versus phosphorous).

Buying a generic balancer/supplement/feed you might strike it lucky and find something that fits your grazing well and your horse will do well on it - this is why ten different people will swear by ten different brands.

But it's like baking a cake without knowing the exact ingredients - you might get a lovely cake out of the oven or you might get a sloppy mess.

So what is the best answer?

IMO the Gold Standard is to test the forage (£50) and then balance your minerals from there (£45 fee) and then only feed what you need (which is often half a teaspoon of this or half a teaspoon of that).

For some people this impossible and there are two supplements that have been brought out with a nod to the current trends often seen in UK's forage. These are Pro Hoof and Equimins META Balance.

It won't take long for the feed companies to sit up and take notice and start being brave enough to wander off script and produce more balancing mineral supplements....It's an exciting time!
 
Forage testing can be done with (off the top of my head).

ForagePlus
Dodson and Horrell
Simple System

and then the balancing can be done by ForagePlus or Mel Barker...there may be more.

You can also send your sample direct to the lab in America for less cash but you have to negotiate all the paperwork yourself.

I had my hayalge tested in 2010 and had it tested by D&H then got Mel Barker to do a bespoke diet a few months after that, so I wasn't spending the cash all in one hit.

Intellectually, the analysis on a few bales of haylage should be worthless by now but my old boy is healthier than ever before, so it must be working still.
 
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