Vitamins and Minerals

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RHM

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Just looking to pick all your wonderful brains about what supplements you all feed. Recently had a very hard sales pitch from calm healthy horses rep which basically slagged off the balancer I am currently feeding (forage plus). Not too keen to switch to them anytime soon but I’ve been basically told I’m wasting shed loads of money feeding that. Pony in question is on a hay only diet so does need supplementation. So my question what does everyone else give and is it worth getting something cheaper?
 
I looked at the calm, healthy horses one, but its very expensive for what it is. Then they reckon you need to buy two other products and take your horse off the grass...

I use progressive earth pro balance, plus additional magnesium oxide, brewers yeast, salt and occasionally a toxin binder. Plus soak his hay. He's still on rye grass grazing and has gone from 45 issues on the calm healthy horses checklist to an average of 5 issues some days none.

I've did loads of research to solve his grass affected issues, you're welcone to PM me if you would like a copy of my notes / quantities etc.

Forage Plus are one of the best, just expensive. I find Progressive Earth is much cheaper, it works out at £15 per month for a huge bag it still has 100% of the most likely deficiencies / requirements plus they sent me loads of advice (and no sales pitch) which resolved his issues very cheaply. Lots of other people others use Equimins advance complete which is a similar spec.
 
Flamenco said:
I looked at the calm, healthy horses one, but its very expensive for what it is. Then they reckon you need to buy two other products and take your horse off the grass...

I use progressive earth pro balance, plus additional magnesium oxide, brewers yeast, salt and occasionally a toxin binder. Plus soak his hay. He's still on rye grass grazing and has gone from 45 issues on the calm healthy horses checklist to an average of 5 issues some days none.

I've did loads of research to solve his grass affected issues, you're welcone to PM me if you would like a copy of my notes / quantities etc.

Forage Plus are one of the best, just expensive. I find Progressive Earth is much cheaper, it works out at £15 per month for a huge bag it still has 100% of the most likely deficiencies / requirements plus they sent me loads of advice (and no sales pitch) which resolved his issues very cheaply. Lots of other people others use Equimins advance complete which is a similar spec.
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Thanks so much for this! Yes they were trying to flog me lots of stuff while just slagging off all other competition. Hate that approach to sales and really turns me off to them. Thanks for the recommendation of progressive earth I will have a look at them.
 
I tried the whole range of Calm Healthy Horses having been given the hard sale by an (now ex for unrelated reasons) friend. They went on for months about how CHH worked wonders. So I shelled out a lot and didnt notice any improvements in anything at all & I've got an inkling that they stopped feeding it too but could be wrong.

I'm struggling to remember if there was anything negative because I stopped using them before they were finished so there must have been a reason . I still have over half bags of the minerals, grazeeze and another one. So if anyone wants them they are welcome if they cover postage.

My mum phoned CHH for Fat Cob. He was obese with fatty lumps when he arrived although vet didnt think he was EMS/IR. Mum bought the premium minerals and a bag of something else too after the hard sell.

Again made not a jot of difference and his didnt get finished either, so theyre also available if anyone wants them.

Since then I've fed Equimmins Advance but recently just moved back to Progressive Earth Pro Balance.

TL:DR - I noticed no improvements at all feeding CHH but was considerably worse off!
 
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TPO said:
I tried the whole range of Calm Healthy Horses having been given the hard sale by an (now ex for unrelated reasons) friend. They went on for months about how CHH worked wonders. So I shelled out a lot and didnt notice any improvements in anything at all.

I'm struggling to remember if there was anything negative because I stopped using them before they were finished. I still have over half bags of the minerals, grazeeze and another one. So if anyone wants them they are welcome if they cover postage.

My mum phoned CHH for Fat Cob. He was obese with fatty lumps when he arrived although vet didnt think he was EMS/IR. Mum bought the premium minerals and a bag of something else too. Again made not a jot of difference and his didnt get finished either, so also available if anyone wants them.

Since then I've fed Equimmins Advance but recently just moved back to Progressive Earth Pro Balance.

TL:DR - I noticed no improvements at all feeding CHH but was considerably worse off!
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Thanks! Glad I’m not the only one to have had pseudoscience rammed down my throat! Thanks for the recommendations for the others, will get googling!
 
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After 8 years of working to 'balance' our forage/mineral deficits I am struggling again. We have used the ForagePlus grazing analysis and feed plan as well as their balancer and additional minerals which have undoubtedly resolved a series of constant niggling problems in the whole herd (in the early days). However, the horse that needs the most support HATES his minerals and more often than not will leave some food, particularly in the summer when he is actually grazing... The others literally eat anything and are simple beasts to look after and don't need quite the same level of support. Lately I have decided to try a different way so thanks to @ester I have looked carefully at the Equimins AC which is much cheaper (thankfully!) and have started feeding that. So far all the horses are eating it :) It has been impossible to get Equimins nutritionist however, to confirm exactly how much of the additional stuff (mainly copper and zinc) I should be adding in...Equimins advice is that I can do without additional copper and zinc. I think, from experience, this is unlikely! I am a bit bothered because I know that I will see the fallout from any deficiency etc in a few months time too.

It is so frustrating tbh. Having been through something of a 'revolution' a decade ago where scientific information became much more accessible and owners could start to learn and understand about vitamins and minerals from these very companies, they all now seem determined to boggle us with science rather than information that we can really deal with in order to compare and make our own minds up. I suppose it is better than the 'we know best, no need for you to ask' approach of some feed companies though...I guess the choice is between pseudoscience, hard science or no science whatsoever!!
 
Going to thow a spanner in the works here!! Do mist ponies/ horses actally need a balancer? BTW I feed one!! If the hay is good and good grazing surely they get enough from that? Most horses are in light work anyway. My first pony , 30 odd years ago died at 38. Worst diet ever back then, mainly bran. I had a pointer that retired from racing at 13 yo, then team chased at nd hunted till 18 then hacked till he died at 28! Neither saw a balancer in their lives. No lameness issues and looked great throughout. As I say I feed one now but are they really necessary!!
 
Foxychops said:
Going to thow a spanner in the works here!! Do mist ponies/ horses actally need a balancer? BTW I feed one!! If the hay is good and good grazing surely they get enough from that? Most horses are in light work anyway. My first pony , 30 odd years ago died at 38. Worst diet ever back then, mainly bran. I had a pointer that retired from racing at 13 yo, then team chased at nd hunted till 18 then hacked till he died at 28! Neither saw a balancer in their lives. No lameness issues and looked great throughout. As I say I feed one now but are they really necessary!!
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I would tend to agree but my pony isn’t on any grass and poor quality hay (to get low starch/sugar) so I’m guessing he would look pretty poor without a bit of help!
 
palo1 said:
After 8 years of working to 'balance' our forage/mineral deficits I am struggling again. We have used the ForagePlus grazing analysis and feed plan as well as their balancer and additional minerals which have undoubtedly resolved a series of constant niggling problems in the whole herd (in the early days). However, the horse that needs the most support HATES his minerals and more often than not will leave some food, particularly in the summer when he is actually grazing... The others literally eat anything and are simple beasts to look after and don't need quite the same level of support. Lately I have decided to try a different way so thanks to @ester I have looked carefully at the Equimins AC which is much cheaper (thankfully!) and have started feeding that. So far all the horses are eating it :) It has been impossible to get Equimins nutritionist however, to confirm exactly how much of the additional stuff (mainly copper and zinc) I should be adding in...Equimins advice is that I can do without additional copper and zinc. I think, from experience, this is unlikely! I am a bit bothered because I know that I will see the fallout from any deficiency etc in a few months time too.

It is so frustrating tbh. Having been through something of a 'revolution' a decade ago where scientific information became much more accessible and owners could start to learn and understand about vitamins and minerals from these very companies, they all now seem determined to boggle us with science rather than information that we can really deal with in order to compare and make our own minds up. I suppose it is better than the 'we know best, no need for you to ask' approach of some feed companies though...I guess the choice is between pseudoscience, hard science or no science whatsoever!!
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It is so frustrating isn’t it! I just wish there was a big comparison chart that we could look at! I will have a look at Equimins as well.
 
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Foxychops said:
Going to thow a spanner in the works here!! Do mist ponies/ horses actally need a balancer? BTW I feed one!! If the hay is good and good grazing surely they get enough from that? Most horses are in light work anyway. My first pony , 30 odd years ago died at 38. Worst diet ever back then, mainly bran. I had a pointer that retired from racing at 13 yo, then team chased at nd hunted till 18 then hacked till he died at 28! Neither saw a balancer in their lives. No lameness issues and looked great throughout. As I say I feed one now but are they really necessary!!
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makes you wonder some times
 
tristar said:
makes you wonder some times
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I have both sorts of horses -those that literally need nothing and remain in robust, shining good health and those that need more help. Rather dramatically, about 8-10 years ago though, ALL of our herd had increasingly difficult problems and at that point the horses ranged from a 34 year old pony, young sports horse, coloured middleweight cob x and a couple of native ponies. All had hoof abcesses, eye and skin problems and it was relentless, depressing and frightening. We had our forage analysed as a last resort and then used a mineral plan to deal with the ridiculously high iron and manganese we have (love how I sound so science-y here but I do at least understand that bit!! :) :) lol) It has always been difficult to achieve the optimum level though and we still get niggly issues which I think now are at a more 'normal' level. The health of the herd in general has been transformed by this though so I now do have some horses that need nothing other than a bit of balancer so I do think that it IS important to try to feed a balancer though you must know what you are balancing of course!! Grazing has changed beyond all recognition in the last few decades, soil fertility has decreased enormously too so I think it very likely that the quality of what we basically feed our horses is much worse than it used to be. Sadly too, I think horses are simply not bred to be as robust as they were. :(
 
palo1 said:
I have both sorts of horses -those that literally need nothing and remain in robust, shining good health and those that need more help. Rather dramatically, about 8-10 years ago though, ALL of our herd had increasingly difficult problems and at that point the horses ranged from a 34 year old pony, young sports horse, coloured middleweight cob x and a couple of native ponies. All had hoof abcesses, eye and skin problems and it was relentless, depressing and frightening. We had our forage analysed as a last resort and then used a mineral plan to deal with the ridiculously high iron and manganese we have (love how I sound so science-y here but I do at least understand that bit!! :) :) lol) It has always been difficult to achieve the optimum level though and we still get niggly issues which I think now are at a more 'normal' level. The health of the herd in general has been transformed by this though so I now do have some horses that need nothing other than a bit of balancer so I do think that it IS important to try to feed a balancer though you must know what you are balancing of course!! Grazing has changed beyond all recognition in the last few decades, soil fertility has decreased enormously too so I think it very likely that the quality of what we basically feed our horses is much worse than it used to be. Sadly too, I think horses are simply not bred to be as robust as they were. :(
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sport horse breeding is a funny area, robust is is the word i think of when breeding, trying to breed horses that can have a decent working life and not fall to pieces in the first ten years, a kind of hardiness as opposed to breeding on competition records, movement and looks.

putting soundness above all else, not losing the foundation bloodlines that bring natural vigour
 
The horse supplements (and feed) industry really annoys me. They all claim that their products are the best and will transform your horse. They basically say anything to make horse owners part with their hard earned pennies. Horse nutrition is a science and if you feel there is a problem with your current feeding regime, I would seek advice from a qualified independent equine nutritionist.
 
I have found Calm Healthy Horses Alleviate C supplement amazing for helping my horse, who is grass sensitive. I'm really thankful for Sue's help as the difference in my boy is huge (I could barely lead him safely at one point, let alone ride him and he's now riding better than ever). But I can appreciate not everyone has necessarily had the same experience.

I don't use their vitamin and mineral supplement as I was already using Thunderbrooks Daily Essentials and happy with it. My native previously did really well on Equimins Advanced Conplete but it has a very strong smell and I assume taste, as it was hard to get him to eat it.
 
My trimmer is very keen on CHH products and I have used it up to now on her advice. However I don’t understand the science behind their approach, and it isn’t based on balancing soil analyses according to the nrc published ratios. It also includes manganese which my soil is already high in. I think when I’ve finished current supply I’ll move to Equimins
 
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MuddyMonster said:
I have found Calm Healthy Horses Alleviate C supplement amazing for helping my horse, who is grass sensitive. I'm really thankful for Sue's help as the difference in my boy is huge (I could barely lead him safely at one point, let alone ride him and he's now riding better than ever). But I can appreciate not everyone has necessarily had the same experience.

I don't use their vitamin and mineral supplement as I was already using Thunderbrooks Daily Essentials and happy with it. My native previously did really well on Equimins Advanced Conplete but it has a very strong smell and I assume taste, as it was hard to get him to eat it.
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(Off topic sorry) I have an unopened bag of Alleviate-C which I don’t need. If you still use it I can sell it to you discounted from the CHH price. i can send photos
 
Muddywellies said:
The horse supplements (and feed) industry really annoys me. They all claim that their products are the best and will transform your horse. They basically say anything to make horse owners part with their hard earned pennies. Horse nutrition is a science and if you feel there is a problem with your current feeding regime, I would seek advice from a qualified independent equine nutritionist.
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I quite agree BUT in my experience nutritionists are sometimes not prepared to advise the specific levels of micro nutrients/minerals if they are above the RDA even though I know that you sometimes need to do that in order to offset other elements. Some agronomists will provide a forage analysis service but invariably they will report what is 'normal' rather than optimum and this can be misleading as the two are not the same. This then provides unhelpful information against which to balance a horse's diet. I have tried several approaches including an independent nutritionist and have found that the best and simplest approach is to balance the major imbalances in the primary forage diet. Frustratingly, that isn't quite as simple as it should be...!!
 
This is one reason I think an independent nutritionist is a good idea and they are not biased to one make or product. It’s definitely off putting and unprofessional when they slander another product.
 
I use the Equimins advance complete powder for my 2 year old with added brewers yeast and I have no complaints. I looked in to FP but it’s quite expensive, the Equimins is very similar and more suitable to my bank balance ?
 
Foxychops said:
Going to thow a spanner in the works here!! Do mist ponies/ horses actally need a balancer? BTW I feed one!! If the hay is good and good grazing surely they get enough from that? Most horses are in light work anyway. My first pony , 30 odd years ago died at 38. Worst diet ever back then, mainly bran. I had a pointer that retired from racing at 13 yo, then team chased at nd hunted till 18 then hacked till he died at 28! Neither saw a balancer in their lives. No lameness issues and looked great throughout. As I say I feed one now but are they really necessary!!
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i get your point. Yet we have to consider the soil mineral profile of decades ago to now....acidic NPK wasn’t the ‘main’ fertiliser for hay fields - the hays were all mixed species low calorie hay - today, certainly in a country where cow farming is dominant you have to really search for hay that isn’t loaded with high sugar ryegrass.
The soil balance has changed and the species of grass being sown for grazing and hay fields have all changed.
Ryegrass dominates the irish hay feed and grazing market. Timothy here is a rare as rocking horse shoite!

So in the very least we balance the most affected minerals lacking - which now is magnesium out if the macro minerals and zinc/copper for the micro.
Wheat Bran is excellent for vitamin E and its a shame its not used moreso in the feed industry anymore.

I tried forageplus minerals but wasnt impressed with the price per kilo which mostly was just mag ox and sodium. I can get those minerals FAR cheaper elsewhere and really just want a good micro mineral balancer with enough copper/zinc etc and decent other minerals.

The one thing most companies add is salt/sodium to their mineral mixes, and that degrades all other minerals and shouldnt be added, ideally. Try finding one without though!!

When i get time im going to mix my own, without salt, with enough of what’s lacking in todays soil profiles and forage - so im not endlessly adding x,y,z to a balancer that never ever are ideal.

I also tried formula for feet and to be honest, no change in my horses feet - was going through terrible white line issues at the time, which ended up needing more copper,zinc and mag to the diet to resolve, so i ditched the ‘balancers’ and just bought the minerals separately.

For the price they are, most have a rubbish tiny dose per day dose - they give the amount per kilo to make it seem like its loaded, but divide it down per dose and you’ll find cheaper bagged feeds generally provide similar nutrients.

im now trying equimins advance complete pellets as they use the most bio-digestible forms of the minerals and vitamins and the dosages of them are good Compared to others. Except for magnesium. That still needs to be added. but i dont mind that, because i dont want to be spending 20+quid a kilo for a balancer thats mostly mag ox and sodium like forageplus.

In fact, this thread has given me an idea - if we all were to chip in with our research of what we would ideally want in a mineral balancer and what dosage - we could end up compiling a HHO IDEAL mineral balancer!
 
I have all mine on the forage plus performance balancers I have to say every time I take them off I regret it .
I have a rule with horse products never buy from any one who slags off other products reasoned explanation is fine by slagging has me heading for the door quickly .
 
Haha I love that idea! I keep thinking about buying individual minerals but knowing how much to give to balance is difficult!
 
Goldenstar said:
I have all mine on the forage plus performance balancers I have to say every time I take them off I regret it .
I have a rule with horse products never buy from any one who slags off other products reasoned explanation is fine by slagging has me heading for the door quickly .
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Agreed! As a sales person myself I personally never talk about competitors unless it’s brought up by the customer as I don’t want to use the time we have not talking about my product! I wouldn’t dream of slagging anyone else off, I let the data speak for itself. It must be an easy trap to fall into though if your selling something with no data to back up your claims.
 
I give mine Spillers Lite and Lean balancer. It's got a reasonably good profile for the money and my fussy mare will eat it! I notice the difference in her if we change to a different balancer (I have tried a few), so we stay put.

I also feed a Hack Up Bespoke supplement for her digestion and joints because Spillers L&L doesn't have any probiotics in. However, I think that some of their other balancers do.

I am a great believer in different brand/supplements suit different horses.
 
Foxychops said:
Going to thow a spanner in the works here!! Do mist ponies/ horses actally need a balancer? BTW I feed one!! If the hay is good and good grazing surely they get enough from that? Most horses are in light work anyway. My first pony , 30 odd years ago died at 38. Worst diet ever back then, mainly bran. I had a pointer that retired from racing at 13 yo, then team chased at nd hunted till 18 then hacked till he died at 28! Neither saw a balancer in their lives. No lameness issues and looked great throughout. As I say I feed one now but are they really necessary!!
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Totally agree with this. It's manufacturers convincing us that we can't live without their products. A good quality feed should prove all that our horses need unless there is a special medical need.
 
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