Walk Pirouettes

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buntybaby

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Hi
I am in the process of teaching my mare walk pirouettes. I'm not 100% sure on how much movement is allowed from the hind legs!. To the left she hardly moves her hind legs but to the right there is alot more movement.
So was wondering if anyone could clear it up for me??
Heres a short vid from yday (to the left first)

http://youtu.be/FQrpDsjv934

Thanks in advance :)
 
ummm, i hate to say it, but are you sure she's sound? it looks to me as though she's nodding her head in trot, every time the near fore touches down. couldn't you feel it?
as for the walk pirouettes, you're right, the hindlegs should not move much, the first one is much better than the second, but i think the bend is wrong, you should have true bend and you don't.
this vid, which i found at random, has a pretty good walk pirouette starting at about 50 secs in, you can see it is performed with true bend.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpxFj6cK9jE
 
I have to say I also don't think she looks sound.

She should be stepping under with her hinds, not twisting as she is doing. Collect the walk more and use your outside leg to encourage the step whilst keeping the pirouette itself small. On the right rein she swings her quarters instead of stepping round with her shoulders (could be due to IMO soundness issues, or just stiffer on R rein, perhaps a greater use of flexing during warming up would help?). Try doing quarter p's and then half p's with more bend and more use of your outside leg again to encourage her to step under and round, not just swing round in a small circle and work up to the full pirouette.
 
Just having a quick look, and your horse looks lame/very stiff on the near hind, firstly in the trot and then during the pirouette you can the leg is kept straight and I would expect the horse to flex it's hock and push round the pirouette more.
You can increase or decrease the amount of hind leg movement to suit ability and experience, but I would suggest that as your horse appears to have impaired mobility in the hock you proceed with caution.
 
Also have to agree with previous posters re soundness I'm afraid.

From a judges point of view as far as the walk piros go the first is showing a real issue in that she is no longer walking but swivelling round her hind legs. The walk rhythm must be maintained for it to be correct and if the horse 'sticks' as she has done here then the movement is insufficient.

The second one keeps the rhythm but she is stepping out so therefore turning around her centre rather than her quarters. This one would score higher in a test but only just.

The walk needs a greater degree of collection, suppleness and activity to improve the pirouettes.
 
Agreed on the soundness issues behind, no where near qualified to comment on the pirouettes but the second look more like a turn on the haunches to me ;-)
 
Then there is Bunty she's 16.1hh TB x Hannoverian 8yr old! My first proper comp horse owned her for just over a yr now although i've worked with her for nearly 4yrs, she was left to me by her breeder when she passed away. Brief history (will try and keep short) was shown successfully in hand as a youngster, hads locking stifles which were operated on and sorted but they waited too long to do this soo caused big probs with her right fore (pretty sure left stifle was worse, I wasn't around then!) Aanyway all eventually got sorted and I came along!! and backed her at 5yrs and although had our probs mainly with her mind we successfully compete affiliated novice dr and have been training some of the winter and hopefully at affiliated elem in the summer!!
Would love to know what you guys think of her! managed to get a vid done the other day!!

This I just copied from an earlier thread from OP - might explain a lot :-)
 
My horse is not lame just to clear that up, otherwise no way would I have carried on and would have gotten off. Yes she is stiff behind as had alot of problems behind so does struggle with taking weight back etc, however this is a work in progress so to speak and she is a helluva lot better than she was and what we thought she would be.

nikkimariet said:
She should be stepping under with her hinds, not twisting as she is doing. Collect the walk more and use your outside leg to encourage the step whilst keeping the pirouette itself small. On the right rein she swings her quarters instead of stepping round with her shoulders (could be due to IMO soundness issues, or just stiffer on R rein, perhaps a greater use of flexing during warming up would help?). Try doing quarter p's and then half p's with more bend and more use of your outside leg again to encourage her to step under and round, not just swing round in a small circle and work up to the full pirouette.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this will try in future. The right rein is her stiffer rein generally muscular reasons and again this is being worked on and I have a very good equine sports massage therapist working with her regularly.
 
I'm sorry OP but she is definitely showing a lameness there. I've had a look at your other vids and she's definitely lame & 'nodding'. I would be getting the vet ASAP :(
 
I'm not going into whether she is lame or not but with regard to the pirouettes, they are an exercise that she will find quite difficult if she has issues behind. Think of controlling the shoulders with the outside rein more and the quarters with your legs. Inside leg is for impulsion so keeps the hind legs marching albeit on a circle the size of a dinner plate. The outside leg controls the quarters so you will need better reaction to your outside leg to the right where she pushes into it and steps out. Inside rein suggests the direction and positioning but doesn't pull. Outside rein controls the outside shoulder so brings the shoulders round - it is very important that it doesn't pull back but closes into the neck in a slightly forward way to turn. Think of keeping the shoulders between your hands so if you want the shoulders to come left move your hands to the left bringing the shoulders with you. Keep your weight to the inside and inside shoulder back. Be clear in your mind what you want her to do - hind legs prescribe circle the size of a dinner plate and forehand walks round on a bigger arc without losing the walk rhythm.

Start by making them bigger to keep the hind legs moving in rhythm. 1/4 pirouettes is a good idea, first on a 15m square then make the square smaller so they come closer together. On the right rein particularly, travers on an 8m circle in walk, making sure you keep the shoulders on the 8m circle and the quarters just inside, will help the stepping out.
 
so, 9 of us think she's lame, opinion varying as to whether it is front or back end. in the last video the canter has no jump at all, it is pretty much 4-time, perhaps because of her previous hind-end issues? i do sympathise, but i would have her on zerobute or nobute or something to see if it makes her more comfortable, or get her checked out by a vet and perhaps a physio, rather than denying totally that she is lame. you may not be able to feel it, but she is honestly not going like a horse that is 100%, sorry.
 
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