Walk, Trot Tests and Pot Hunters

Gingerwitch

Gingerwitch

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Why oh why do so many people that are obviously capable and have horses working into a correct outline, doing balanced walk trot and canter's in both extended and collected paces keep entering walk and trot tests?

Been to support a friend tonight - 4 year old horse, first outing and I really really was amazed at how many "pot hunters" there appeared to be. Its so off putting as a horse is going past a youngster with eyes on stalks to have some one doing a flying change in front of them. Okay if you want to warm your horse up at least go non competative.

I really wish the judge could give upto 20 marks for "appropriate class" entered, to give the genuine folks a chance to succeed.

GW
 
To be honest even on a four year old at its first outing I wouldnt have entered the walk trot test.

For me those dressage tests are for tiny tots or people who are terrified of going into canter and those should be the only people entering them imo!
 
Know what you mean. It would be nice if these sorts of competitors entered non-competitively if for example their horse had been out of work due to injury. Dont let your friend be put off though, Judges arent daft !
 
Oh I dont know, for a 4 year old or for a start on an ex racer and yep if you really are a nervous person I can see the use as a steeping stone.

In all other sports if you were playing or entering way below your standard, most folks would be rather embarrased - but its the same i suppose as someone doing the 2ft 2ft3 2ft 6, 2ft 9 and 3ft class and being placed in all of them - why do folks do it?
 
georgiegirl said:
For me those dressage tests are for tiny tots or people who are terrified of going into canter and those should be the only people entering them imo!
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Disagree with this. I want to do a couple of walk/trot tests with my boy. He's not a youngster but he had done nothing in the way of schoolwork before I got him. His canter isn't balanced enough yet for us to do a prelim - we're only just getting to the point where we can get his huge canter 'up' enough to get round the arena (which he does in about three strides) without doing a wall of death... but I want to get him out to competitions to give him experience of the atmosphere and see how he behaves in those environments. I'm not terrified of cantering him at all, but I think it would be nice for him to have positive experiences at competitions in a nice relaxed walk/trot test :)

I could do a Prelim without the canter, but seeing as that would then just be walk/trot, why not enter the actual walk/trot test until we're ready for the canter in tests?! ;)
 
Agree with Trish C. My boy hasn't been out much and he would do fine in a walk/trot. It would benefit him to do something fairly easy and give him show experience.

I do hate the pot hunters, though, that consistently score over 60 and should affiliate and let us amateurs get on and embarras ourselves!
 
Well for those who think W/T test are for tiny tots or those that cant canter I have to say i must be pot hunting then :D

I am doing a W/T test with Kia on Sunday the we are doing Prelim 13 :) Im doing it as A he hasnt doen dressage in a few years and B his canter is leaving alot to be desired at the minute, we look fab on the right rein but our left rein is just horrendous!!

im entering the prelim to make the outing worthwhile, not because I am using the W/T as a warm up ;)

So if that is pot hunting then so be it I am one, we shal see if I get a rossie though as chances are we wont :D
 
Think you are missing the point of my post - if you can do flying changes, collected and extended trot and canter - and obviously look like you are an established partnership - why do a W&T test?
 
georgiegirl said:
To be honest even on a four year old at its first outing I wouldnt have entered the walk trot test.

For me those dressage tests are for tiny tots or people who are terrified of going into canter and those should be the only people entering them imo!
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i will be taking my loan 4yr old to her first w/t tests over the next few months - we plan to do 2 pos 3 - just to give her the competition experience & will then [ all being well] move onto Prelim & whatever

i am neither a tiny tot or terrified of canter but given her greeness - a w/t test allows us to get out & about & hopefully work through the whitebaords willl eat me & i have to leave all my new found friends in the warm up:rolleyes::rolleyes: before really having to focus too much on technical riding
BUT - i see them very much as a training tool and like the OP get slightly miffed when people use them or the frst prelim test on offer as their warm up - its so unfair on those actuallhy riding at that level:mad:
 
georgiegirl said:
To be honest even on a four year old at its first outing I wouldnt have entered the walk trot test.

For me those dressage tests are for tiny tots or people who are terrified of going into canter and those should be the only people entering them imo!
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thats quite a narrow minded opinion to be fair. I have competed three times this year in local walk trot tests - i am 25 years old and Chico is 5 years!

Why did i demean myself by entering such a pityful class....?

Simple, Chico isnt ready for canter work at a competitive level and a walk trot test gives us the opportunity to gain experience of going to a show, taking part and achieving something. I really enjoy it and it gives us something to work towards while we sort out his (and mine) canter balance.

It's a shame that peple gifted with perfect horses seem to think those of us lower down the ladder need not bother our tiny little talent on such silly classes :mad: :(
 
Totally Gingerwitch, agree with you thoroughly (sorry forgot to say that), just respectfully disagree with Georgiegirl :)

There may be some cases where the horse is very able, but very difficult or nervous in comp environments and needs a few 'low stress' outings to for exposure, but I would guess they're in the relative minority to those pot hunters. As you say, there's the option to go non-competitive.
 
If I coudl get kia to do flying changes, pirouettes and other fancy foot work i think I would be up for a medal never mind a W/T test :)

If our canter was better i wouldnt be entering, so no I wouldnt enter if my horse was capable of the above or what the OP was suggesting :)
 
I wish the judges could deduct marks for pot hunting or like i suggested give marks for "appropriate class".

Everyone needs to be encouraged to progress and aim for something and I certainly will use the walk trot tests for my ex racer - just to see what happens to his brain - but I like the majority of others will soon move on. (we hope !)
 
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bit random but i do something similar jumping because we need more experience. no point sticking him in the fox hunter when's he panicking about the British novice (we school over 1.20 at home) :rolleyes:
I do get where you're coming from though :)
 
They obviously feel the need to boost their ego because when they get out into elementary or affiliated they obviously suck and are not impressed with becoming lower down the line!

It's totally an ego thing.
 
I didnt mean it in a demeaning or narrow minded way - all I meant was that if the horse is physically capable of cantering wether it be in balance, on the bit or whatever mine would go in at prelim. I wouldnt mind whatever mark we got for the canter work etc or wether we even managed half of it on a real greenie.
 
georgiegirl said:
I didnt mean it in a demeaning or narrow minded way - all I meant was that if the horse is physically capable of cantering wether it be in balance, on the bit or whatever mine would go in at prelim. I wouldnt mind whatever mark we got for the canter work etc or wether we even managed half of it on a real greenie.
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Totally fair enough :)

My decision to use W/T tests is in no way related to marks, it is purely for pyschological reasons. My boy still gets a little stressed out by canter sometimes - he gets worried when he doesn't completely understand something... despite being a total tit sometimes he does, generally, very much want to please and worries if he can't... if he unbalances himself too much he gets a bit upset and goes into mental shutdown so I then have to coax him back into a happy enough frame of mind that he can work. He's very excitable and inexperienced at parties, hence my decision to take him to W/T tests where he can be exposed to the atmosphere in, hopefully, an entirely positive way. I wouldn't want to take him somewhere where he's excited and straight away ask for canter when it could very easily upset him. I won't even canter in the warm up of the W/T for the first few times. Only when he's happy in the environment will I start pushing him a little more.

If he wasn't a bit of a big soft worrier (behind his bolshy, well 'ard, knobber exterior) I, like you, would just ride him through canter sections of prelim as best we could. But I feel it's in his best interests not to do this :)

Different horses, different people. 'Tis all about knowing your horse :)
 
Paint Me Proud said:
thats quite a narrow minded opinion to be fair. I have competed three times this year in local walk trot tests - i am 25 years old and Chico is 5 years!

Why did i demean myself by entering such a pityful class....?

Simple, Chico isnt ready for canter work at a competitive level and a walk trot test gives us the opportunity to gain experience of going to a show, taking part and achieving something. I really enjoy it and it gives us something to work towards while we sort out his (and mine) canter balance.

It's a shame that peple gifted with perfect horses seem to think those of us lower down the ladder need not bother our tiny little talent on such silly classes :mad: :(
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Agreed!!!

I enter my youngster in them too as our canter isnt ready yet, still unbalanced, we get over 60% in them but doesn't necessarily mean that we must be ready for prelim!! as soon as our canter is balanced we will go for prelim.

But yes i agree about people who enter them when there actually at novice level!
 
I will admit that I always poo pooed the grown-ups that did W&T tests untill I had to ride a difficult 4yo.It made sense as they are normaly run first and I could warm up early before it was too busy, there were less people to inflict the horse upon! also W&T tests give the horse more time to take in the arena, we don't all have a white railed one at home.I even went in H/C so that I could wear a martingale as I needed one, so I don't think I was a pot hunter.
 
I wouldn't enter my 4yr old ex racer in one as he was better than that and for his first show he was placed in a BD prelim.

My last mare however I entered one when she was 7 and we still came near the bottom :o, she was a bit of a tricky dicky although we did crack dressage in the end :D.

I think people enter them for all sorts of reasons. My BSAI friend took her event horse in a walk/trot BUT she was recovering from a serious illness and simply would not have been able to cope with the canter.
At the end of the day though someone has to win and maybe that person was just testing the water before stepping up?!
It is irritating to think combinations who are established enter these sorts of things just to win, more fool them though as where is the satisfaction in that?? That's why I don't place much worth in the colour of my rosette, more is placed on my Mark and how I felt we did compared to last time, the amount of effort put into training and that sort of thing.
 
Question: My pony and I have gone right through from backing to the point where we can now canter a decent 20m circle, he is starting to collect and sit a little and is starting to work into a contact in the canter instead of being totally unbalanced. However, he is a very sharp little horse, prone to panic and the odd rodeo session if pushed. I haven't ridden a competative dressage test in years and even then only did about 3! And he has never been to a show. I had panned to try a walk trot test over the winter as staying out of canter might keep the adrenaline down and me calm, but I wonder now, given he is capable of canter and so am I, would people think that I should be entering non-competatively? Genuine question! I don't care about prizes, I just need to get us both out and about.
 
I agree with the OP on this one. The W&T I thought was to be a stepping stone for the novice/nervous rider/inexperienced horse before they felt ready for a prelim test. One adult on a pony I know is trying to improve the canter at home, but she is keen for him to go out and about and get used to the competition environment, but doesn't want to be stressed out by worrying if he will do a correct lead/buck if asked to canter, so W & T is perfect for her at the moment.

I think there should be a rule that any combinatin won or placed in a Prelim can't enter.
 
To my recollection, I have done about 3 wt tests last year with my (then) four year old. The first one was the first time I rode him out at a show - I just did the wt on him and did a prelim on my other horse (who isn't dressagey!). Then a few months later, having not been out for ages, I went out and did a wt and a prelim at a different show, where he won the WT and I decided to move up to prelims generally. I then did one more WT as I was taking him up to Suffolk to a friend's yard (more of a social than a comp!) and didn't fancy going all that way just to do one prelim - he came 4th or something in the WT, there were much more established horses than him in there :p So I didn't feel too guilty! Now he only does prelims and the occasional novice (literally 1 for the same reason - don't want to drive to Suffolk for one test).

Regularly we compete against people in the prelims who are competing at novice or higher too, which I find a bit cynical when they're there week in, week out. I think a lot of the problem is the dressage leagues round here which are dominated by people who go out once or twice a week to compete in as many qualifying tests at the same level as possible - so you aim to be winning a couple of prelims a week to get on the scoreboard :eek:

My lad's never won a prelim, but next year I expect I will mostly do novice on him - he works better at novice level and I would rather ride a more stimulating, challenging test and not be placed than ride an easy test and probably still not be placed because of the pot hunters :p
 
Our local riding club is very good and they do seem to have a "scale" of marking for those genuinely not able to enter a prelim class. My six year old daughter entered a walk and trot test where there were a couple of people who I believe should not have been doing the class competitively and they were very encouraging with 5's and 6's throughout (she can't canter a circle and has no idea about diagonals but was pleased as anything to be doing her first show) Her marks didn't compare that badly to other riders who then went on to do a jumping class (all in canter I might add) or did the prelim class straight after. I think that as long as the judges are sensible they will see the genuine W & T combinations and mark them accordingly (i.e. encouragingly) I am not against more established horses or roders doing lower classes than those of which they are capable if it is a question of compeition experience or recovery from injury etc but would prefer to see them going HC
 
I get where you coming from OP, nothing wrong doing a W&T test to use as warm up class IF you enter HC, otherwise no it's not right if your horse is clearly further on and competing in other classes with average scores.

But lets not confuse the two, just because your horse can canter it doesn't mean you shouldn't be doing a walk and trot, you need to work on and prefect the first two before you expect a decent score in a prelim where canter work comes in, walk for before you run an all ;)

You have bare in mind that when folk have travelled all the way to 'a quiet venue' for example, what with fuel cost and you've gone to the effort of getting your horse ready and out, then it's worth entering in a few classes rather than just the one...even if you horse is not really ready for a certain prelim class, nothing wrong with having a bash just for experience.
 
I wanted to do some walk/trot tests with my share horse, he had done very little schooling and canter was totally unbalanced and like the wall of death in the arena! I would have liked to take him out to give him some more experience at shows too.

I think judges should mention that they think the combination is ready to move up a level or shouldn't be competing in these classes to combat pot hunters, really it's unfair on those who have a genuine reason for going into these classes.
 
If, as most people are saying, they are only entering for the experience, why not go hor concours and let the genuine littleys have a chance at a rosette?
 
I agree - a lot of people entering them and the class sizes are getting huge ::) - i remember when everyone entered prelim because they didn't want to move up to novice and now it seems no one moves out of intro even when their horse is clearly capable. tbh, most organisers should note those that are entering below their level and tell them to move class -the riding club i'm in has a rule that states you have to enter at an appropriate level and if the comittee believes you are entering below that they can move you (eg, if you've scored 88% on 3 outings at intro you'll be asked to move up a class). When i started out (not all that long ago really!) and there weren't intro tests, if you didn't feel your horse was up to the canter you could tell a steward/judge you didnt intend to canter or show much so they knew you hadn't done an error of course and that you were just coaxing horse/pony round -that's where the "0" can come in ;)
I'm in two minds about the progress that intros give but that's another thread - there are far too many pot hunters :( it is funny watching some pot hunters though who can't ride the horse that is capable of about 2 standards above and they don't do well in their class (or is that evil?)
 
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