Walk & trot tests - good or bad?

HenrytheCat said:
I agree with you monkeybum. I can do a perfectly good prelim test at home but I am still finding my feet competitonwise and doing an easy test helps a lot to calm the nerves. Dressage is often seen as elitist but I think the the W&T tests will encourage more people to have a go. In my opinion this can only be a good thing :)
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Ditto this, I've only ever done 3 dressage tests in my life, first time was Oct last year, all of them W&T and it's only now that I'm thinking I should give Prelim a go but will still do a W&T first I think - this is all down to my nerves and inexperience. Anyone who knows me knows that I am not in it for the rosettes, I am the most uncompetative horsey person I know :)
 
I think they’re a good thing.

1) It allows those with young or inexperienced horses to get out to shows. Fair enough their horses may be able to canter at home, but at a show can be a completely different situation for some people and some horses.
2) Dressage is still seen as an elitist discipline imo and it allows those who aren’t that experienced or kids etc to simply go to a show and have a go. If it gets more people interested in the sport then surely this is a good thing?

I do object to people staying at the same level when they should be moving up to Prelim/Novice though as like someone mentioned earlier, some people just want a rosette.

For example, my mare has been out of work for nearly a year – of course she can canter and jump but she’s just come back into work so we aren’t up to all that yet.
I’ll probably take her out to a low level show in the next month or so and do a walk and trot test (simply for an outing) but if we were to get placed I’d not do one again at the next show - I’d do the prelim.

But if walk and trot tests are used as an introduction to dressage for both horse & rider they are an excellent thing.
 
If you can have 2ft jumping classes then its only right to have walk and trot tests.

Just like some people are scared to jump high, some people are scared to attemp a test with canter in it, to start with.

Everyone has to start somewhere.
 
I think also (although others may have mentioned it) that you also have the comfort of not having to canter around the warm up area if you are only doing the W&T test.

W&T tests are 9/10 the first class to be held, therefore you can warm up your youngsters, nervous or exciteable horses in a quiet area, with less chance of others competitors cantering by you because your all pretty much warming up for the same class, horses walking and trotting past a green horse can make a hell of difference to onces cantering by.
 
I'm not really sure why people are bothered......I mean if there are people entering then they obviously serve a purpose!

Anyhoo....I have an ex-polo pony and she finds cantering way too exciting and also will not canter on the left rein when stressed! Walk and trot tests are a great way for us to have a go without having the drama that is cantering!
 
I am not so sure about W&T tests. Para rider issue aside (I know nothing about this) I also agree that cantering a 20m circle is basic enough. To me, competing is something you do to measure your success in training and I do think W&T (as well as tiny SH classes!) are "dumbing down" a bit. However, as people enter them, I guess there is a market for them. People like to go and do them to make themselves feel good about getting a "result", when really, IMO, the money would have been better spent on training rather than entering these pseudo-competitions. But if that's what people like - great. Riding centres certainly make a lot of money out of really low-level competition, which is a good thing I suppose.
 
little_flea said:
However, as people enter them, I guess there is a market for them. People like to go and do them to make themselves feel good about getting a "result", when really, IMO, the money would have been better spent on training rather than entering these pseudo-competitions. But if that's what people like - great. Riding centres certainly make a lot of money out of really low-level competition, which is a good thing I suppose.
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Getting a result is not just about being placed or winning, getting a ''result'' will mean a lot of things to differnt people.

Not everyone can afford weekly lessons or they may not have the facilities to have lessons or the transport to else where for lessons, that does not make them any less important and nor does it make the classes any less important to them.
 
They are good for beginner riders and young horses!!!!

My other half is learning to ride and his aim is to do a walk trot before the end of the summer, which I think is a good thing!

There are a lot of people who hire their local riding school ponies, and come and do the ones organised by our RC, and the girls have so much fun. It's a great introduction to getting involved in the sport at a very introductory level, so why on earth is there snobbery from some people who say it's dumbing dressage down??

The people who don't like these intro classes are not likely to clash or meet up with any of the beginners who are doing the intro's, as usually the intro's are held much, much earlier in the day, so what is the problem??????????
 
Little_flea - I assume that you compete at a high level yourself so you have probably forgotten what it was like when you were starting out? Not everyone has the money to buy big, flashy WBs on which to compete and, being honest, not everyone will have your level of talent.

I certainly don't have a flashy horse or any real talent but I don't think that I should just hide away at home because of that and I'm sorry that you feel that I should :( I can see why dressage has a "stuck up", image now. I wonder if anyone else in the collecting ring was just wishing I'd take my stupid pony home again and not clutter up the arena? I know that some of them weren't because they talked to me and were very friendly. One of them even watched my test and said that she wished her WB would drop onto a contact as easily as my pony appeared to do.

Also, for what it's worth, I have a weekly lesson with a BHSI who rides at PSG level and she is the one who encouraged me to get out and do a couple of W&T tests before starting on prelim. She's also a BD judge and she thinks that it's great that people are getting into dressage at grass roots level. I think she's doing a good job with talentless old me and I was very pleased by the judge's comment "nice, quietly ridden test".
 
Little flea - I think jumping 2'6 is pretty simple and basic - that doesn't mean there shouldn't be classes for people who don't find it so simple - how on earth will they progress otherwise? Building up your confidence in small competitions means that they will surely be better, less nervous and more capable in bigger ones - which can only be a good thing? Surely?
 
I'm getting a bit annoyed by the people on here that are saying prelims are basic enough....here's my argument
atm my horse and I are not ready for a prelim class so do I: spend 6 months schooling so we can go out and do and do a prelim, all the time not compeating in DR. Or do I go out and do a few walk and trot tests to get out and get my mare used to the whole DR atmos, which is very different from the jumping or showing we were doing (not nearly as exciting, she cant go round hell for leather as she'd like) + (not as much space to turn in canter :S) all the time schooling at home and getting DR comp experience so we can do a prelim after we've done a few walks and trot??
Which would you prefer :P
 
Personally, I don't feel very strongly about W&T tests, I never knew they existed until I came on here and saw mention of them. I assumed it was perhaps something some RCs ran and as ours start at Prelim then that was why I'd never heard of them but last week I spotted that they are now being run at the BD affiliated comps at our yard (though still not at RC level). Struck me as a bit pointless really.....

I can see the point at a very low level, small children in pony club maybe (though I still think that if they are jumping 2'6" in a ODE they should be able to canter in a dressage test and not requiring them to sends out the wrong message), training shows at riding clubs, maybe specific classes for young horses etc but I don't see why BD run them.

Kitsune said that if you can do a 2ft showjumping comp then you should be able to do a W&T dressage test. Well firstly I didn't think BS ran 2ft classes though I'd stand to be corrected, and secondly it isn't really the same, if the horse is not established enough in its training to canter a 20m circle then I would query why someone is introducing jumping in any significant way, it seems the wrong way to approach training.

Personally I think if you or your horse are so novicey that you can't canter a 20m circle (and bear in mind that even if it is ugly and you have problems with the transitions/leads etc it is only one or two marks) then you would be better training more rather than competing and introducing the horse to "parties" by going to clinics or doing some showing classes that don't involve ridden shows.

As I said our RC doesn't run W&T tests and there has been no demand for them (they'd be quick to add them if they thought there was a few quid to be made!). People generally either ride the prelim (and it is a very nice non-judgemental environment where people don't mind if you crash out through the boards or whatever) or they generally don't like the concept of dressage at all and will do showing or jumping instead. I've never heard anyone there saying that they would do the dressage if they didn't have to canter.

I'm just surprised by the take up, especially affiliated............
 
I don't think they are a good thing, i don't think that if a horse/rider can't canter properly in public then they are ready for a competition. I don't think it is safe to have a horse and or rider who are not fully established with there balance out competing in a strange enviorment and warming up with other riders. The requirements of a prelim test are rather basic so i feel they should be mastered and be able to be performed in public when in competition.
 
Quadro said:
I don't think they are a good thing, i don't think that if a horse/rider can't canter properly in public then they are ready for a competition. I don't think it is safe to have a horse and or rider who are not fully established with there balance out competing in a strange enviorment and warming up with other riders. The requirements of a prelim test are rather basic so i feel they should be mastered and be able to be performed in public when in competition.
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I for one, could tell you that most of the people doing walk and trot are much more polite in the warm up than those doing prelims, as they seems to think they are way above everybdoy else.
Everyone has to start somewhere don't they??
 
Misinterpreted said:
They are good for beginner riders and young horses!!!!

My other half is learning to ride and his aim is to do a walk trot before the end of the summer, which I think is a good thing!

There are a lot of people who hire their local riding school ponies, and come and do the ones organised by our RC, and the girls have so much fun. It's a great introduction to getting involved in the sport at a very introductory level, so why on earth is there snobbery from some people who say it's dumbing dressage down??

The people who don't like these intro classes are not likely to clash or meet up with any of the beginners who are doing the intro's, as usually the intro's are held much, much earlier in the day, so what is the problem??????????
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I should point out that our RC also has a lot of members who hire riding school horses to compete and are just out for a bit of fun. I have done most of my competitions on school horses, most of which have been far from big flashy warmbloods, and some of whom had never seen dressage boards before I took them into a competition. But we still have everyone doing prelim, the little children, adult novices, riding school horses etc
 
I don't compete dressage, but my sister does on our inexpensive (we share a horse), extremely non-flashy non-WB horse. Sister has only ever show jumped before and so had the horse and they have gone from no dressage experience at all to winning BD Novice in 7 months - only due to hard work and dedication. I am very far from a dressage snob. I just think that Prelim is pretty basic and I don't really see why there is a need for even easier dressage tests. But obviously there is - and if people find them really helpful then, like I said before, that is not a bad thing. There is still a part of me that thinks that you should train really hard so you get good enough to compete, rather than lowering competition levels to fit people who just want to go and win rosettes without having to train much - but I am a bit old and not from the UK, so perhaps this is what I am used to. When I was a kid on riding school ponies we had to canter in the most simple tests. I guess to me competition standard always has been something to strive towards and work really hard for, and I think it would be better for riding standards if people improved to do Prelim tests rather than making the tests easier. I also think that if BD were to begin to run these tests it would just be a money grabbing exercise on their part.

But I completely accept that these competitions can be very helpful for certain audiences.
 
Quadro - but my pony and I can canter perfectly well on a 10 m circle, let alone a 20 m one. I think you are making assumptions about W& T entrants which may well turn out to be untrue. If you ever see any of us W&T entrants out and about sullying your working in areas why not just ask if we are totally cr*p riders? I assume you are a very good rider and I take my hat off to you but I wouldn't put you down, even if you were a lousy rider who was trying her best. Live and let live I say :)
 
little_flea said:
I am not so sure about W&T tests. Para rider issue aside (I know nothing about this) I also agree that cantering a 20m circle is basic enough. To me, competing is something you do to measure your success in training and I do think W&T (as well as tiny SH classes!) are "dumbing down" a bit. However, as people enter them, I guess there is a market for them. People like to go and do them to make themselves feel good about getting a "result", when really, IMO, the money would have been better spent on training rather than entering these pseudo-competitions. But if that's what people like - great. Riding centres certainly make a lot of money out of really low-level competition, which is a good thing I suppose.
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I used to enter my old loan horse in 2' (tiny no doubt some would say) sj classes. He was in his 20s and getting a bit stiff but loved an outing and could cope happily with this height of class. I didn't do them to make myself feel good about getting a result - I did them because it was what we were physically able to do.

There are all sorts of reasons people enter walk & trot tests and small jumping classes. One of them is to have fun at a level they feel confident and capable of. And if people also feel good about getting a "result" then what's wrong with that!
 
little_flea - I think that you have illustrated my point perfectly. If your sister can win BD Novice classes with only 7 months practise under her belt you are clearly part of a talented family of riders. I have been riding for years but am still no good at it. Worst luck. I can assure you that it's not simply that I don't practise - I do and I have a weekly lesson with a very good instructor like I said. Unfortunately, what I do lack is one iota of talent :( That's why W&T tests are great for numpties like me.

monkeybum - I am very polite in the warm up areas too :) I worked my horse in for half an hour before the test and that included lots of cantering. Maybe I shouldn't have done any though as neither my pony nor myself can actually canter - lol :)
 
Brilliant way to get started IMO.

Nice that you don't have to canter if your horse is a bit hot and it's the first test you have done :)

I think it takes the pressure off initially, and is a good introduction to competition.

I don't see what harm it can possibly do. I was under the impression you could only compete in it so many times under BD rules?

I don't see where pot hunting can come in?
 
No pot hunting for me either. I did both comps knowing full well that there were no prizes! All I wanted was what I have already stated plus the opportunity of reading the judge's comments on my riding and my pony's way of going. I was pleasantly suprised by the remarks but also learnt something which, to my mind, is a very good thing and as relevant at the very bottom rung of the ladder as it is at the top.
 
I can see where everyone is coming from, both sides of debate but I'd rather have the opportunity to take a youngster in a W&T test to settle him or act about in before a prelim test if the horse is not used to being at competitions, despite being able to canter a very basic 20m circle.

We are not all blessed with the same horses or the same opportunities, last year my youngster could of easily done a novice test with good marks... in his own arena but of course what good is that, people that do the W&T tests are not just novices or people or horses that can't canter a balanced circle, perhaps they are just taking their time because it doesnt matter what test you ride, its if you ride it well and have acheived what you set out to do, that is a result.


Introducing something simple to sharp horse so the horse is better prepared mentally for either the next class or the next outing.

Not only that but perhaps people that are doing a prelim with test basic movements in (simple as it may be) may not want to enter unless they know their horse is going to do it very well and very good marks, personally this wouldn’t bother me (I’m not competitive) but for a trainer or someone who's being bringing horse on and their reputation hangs in the line of fire, some are very careful where they take the horses and won't enter unless its going to get a good score, so they won't just jump straight into a prelim at some events if they can do a few W&T tests at other events, to gain the horses full concentration and obedience in a busy environment, which is important for both the riders safety but also other competitiors in the warm up rings.
 
W&T tests I feel have their place for certain groups of riders - younger Children and para- dressage (although the para riders at my yard are far more accomplished in their collection work than I am !! and can do half pass with very little effort !!) saying that but yes it does have it's place - what makes me cringe and mad is seeing people roll up and preform the W&T test when it is obvious that they should be prelim/ novice - young horses in my opion should be able to canter a 20m circle even if a bit unbalanced and if it 'explodes' at events then isn't that part and parcel of the learning curve ?

and yes I agree with Katt - Kids jumping 2'6'' should be able to control their ponies and canter a circle !

Trouble is with W&T tests that it encourages people not to push their training / schooling and personally I wouldn't want to end up in the poistion of BE where there is lower level introduced one after another till we are down to jumps at 6'' ! When I evented you had Novice as the base as this was a decent jump 3ft + no more than what you would meet out hunting.
Come on Prelim IS NOT difficult - just give it a whirl and enjoy your day out !!
 
I don't get why anyone who 'doesn't understand the point of them' is bothered by the fact W&T tests run?? Its all about starting out at a nice basic level (for horse / rider or both) and building up your confidence. Its very disheartening when you are starting out when you turn up to competitions with little idea what you are doing, and encounter all the fancy looking dressage horses and very serious looking people in the warm up arena!!

All out local shows have W&T tests now and they are very well attended. The judges tend to be really encouraging and everyone is really friendly. I've had some lovely comments on my sheets - and have noticed that now we are doing prelims they are much more critical! They tend to focus more on what you did wrong rather than right) Also - local SJ shows have cross poles jumping and its very common to see adults on young horses having a go at those classes.

Some people take themselves far too seriously I think!! I did W&T tests last summer - and really enjoyed them. We progressed well through the summer and got placed high up in our last 3 tests so have moved on. We are now doing prelims and hope to move onto novice by the end of the summer, but then I'll also be back in the W&T classes with my youngster. I agree people should move out of the W&T tests once they can do the higher levels - but you could say that about all levels of dressage. In our 2nd prelim test yesterday we just squeezed into the rossettes (9th place) - but had little chance of doing any better as all people doing the novice test after use it as their warm up class.
 
"Trouble is with W&T tests that it encourages people not to push their training / schooling" - the funny thing is Albina, that I think exactly the opposite is true. For me, and doubtless for others too, the fact that there is an entry level to the sport where we feel no pressure is actually an encouragement to push our training/schooling. If we can get our foot on the bottom rung of the ladder then we can aim higher. If we are too intimidated either by nerves/fear of making a hash of things and fools of ourselves a lot of us probably would never have a go at dressage at all. I for one intend to try prelim next and then, if all goes well, move up from there :)
 
HenrytheCat said:
"Trouble is with W&T tests that it encourages people not to push their training / schooling" - the funny thing is Albina, that I think exactly the opposite is true. For me, and doubtless for others too, the fact that there is an entry level to the sport where we feel no pressure is actually an encouragement to push our training/schooling. If we can get our foot on the bottom rung of the ladder then we can aim higher. If we are too intimidated either by nerves/fear of making a hash of things and fools of ourselves a lot of us probably would never have a go at dressage at all. I for one intend to try prelim next and then, if all goes well, move up from there :)
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Absolutely - if there weren't W&T tests I would have never got into dressage. I did my first ever test (Prelim 1) as part of an unaffiiliated ODE and got 45%. My score sheet felt like I was reading 'The story of the worlds worst rider' - I don't think there was one nice comment on there ... unless you could ' well tried' nice!

My instructor persuaded me to have a go at a w&T and we slowly moved up through the 50's into 60%'s - and ended our 'season' with a 3rd place. I'm now trying to persuade my loaner to have a go at a W&T test as although my horse can canter 20 m circles fine, my loaner is still learning.
 
I don't think everyone for W&T tests are actually saying it is difficult thing to do and that it encourages people not to push their training? maybe some people not anyone I've ever come across, some people may have put a hell of lot of training in just get to a competition and do a W&T test, some horses are just more complicated than others, has nothing to do with the amount of hours you put in, sometimes you can't go OTT with the amount of hours and training you put in with a young horse because by the time its 6 years old you've bored it to death.

Disabled riders, novices riders, pot hunters and people who can’t be bothered to put the training in, are not the only people with horses that benefit from doing W&T classes.
 
maxapple said:
Absolutely - if there weren't W&T tests I would have never got into dressage. I did my first ever test (Prelim 1) as part of an unaffiiliated ODE and got 45%. My score sheet felt like I was reading 'The story of the worlds worst rider' - I don't think there was one nice comment on there ... unless you could ' well tried' nice!

My instructor persuaded me to have a go at a w&T and we slowly moved up through the 50's into 60%'s - and ended our 'season' with a 3rd place. I'm now trying to persuade my loaner to have a go at a W&T test as although my horse can canter 20 m circles fine, my loaner is still learning.
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But that is more a problem with the judge than the test, (though prelim 1 is a funny old test, I think some of the others - possibly 4 or 10 are easier). Judges should always find something nice to say and critisism should be constructive. I don't think I've ever had a test sheet without at least one nice comment even when it has been ugly, I looked over some recently as I haven't done any competing this year and they say things like "a nice horse who had some pleasing moments and will do well when he becomes more supple - well ridden" or "accurately ridden test, marks will improve when......" or "quietly ridden, nice test showing potential" etc etc.

I did my first test as part of an unaffiliated combined training and had no desire to do dressage. It was a PC HT test and we didn't do particularly well, but on that particular horse if you could get him warmed up and ride him well enough that he didn't look lame (stiff grumpy riding school horse) you were doing well, I can't remember the marks but I've had at least one below 45% in a prelim.

IMHO judges should remember the level that they are judging at and bear in mind the combination in front of them. They should always try to make at least one vaguely positive comment. When you do a few more tests you start to realise that some judges are naturally more harsh than others, and you bear this in mind when you are reading the comments.

To be honest if you scored 45% it can't have been all bad, especially not for a first time! Personally I think if you score over 50% you can't complain too much although obviously there is always room to improve. With the scoring you HAVE to remember that marks above 7 are hard to get.
 
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