Walk & trot tests - good or bad?

SO1 said:
Little Flea - I know you are not originally from the UK so you might not know that in the UK ponies are just not reserved for the very old or the very young. There are lots of super and competitive native british ponies who may look chunky compared to a TB but are not fat and are ridden by adults who are not very old or disabled! There are also children and those over the age of 65 who also ride horses. We are very open minded in this country when it comes to horses and who rides what.
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Never!! Whatever next - cobs doing dressage? WBs eventing? Children On Horses? Thank god there are people like you who are happy to take it upon yourself to educate the ignorant and unaware foreigners (because it is obviously to do with nationality)! :-0 :-)
 
I think walk and trot tests are a great idea at unaffiliated level. I notice that the people who are opposed to them keep saying that riders/horses should not 'compete' until they are a certain level, but I suspect that the majority of people doing walk and trot tests are not actually really out to 'compete' in the real sense of the word. They are actually out to gain confidence, have a fun outing, get some feedback from the judge, see how their horse behaves in a different environment etc. If they get a rosette at the end of the day that is just an added bonus. Really what is the difference to them going out to 'compete' or going out to 'train' or 'school'? With the right judge at walk and trot tests I suspect a lot of competitors will actually be inspired to learn more about the discipline of dressage.

As for walk and trot riders in the warm up ring, I must say I have seen much more dangerous horses and riders warming up for Prelims and Novices than I have for W&T!

I also suspect part of the popularity of W&T tests is down to the fact that so many experienced riders stay at Prelim level when they should really be moving up to Novice, so the beginner dressage rider finds themselves up against the 'warmblood and beagler' brigade which they find intimidating. They feel that in the W&T tests they will be alongside people similar to themselves.

Having said that, I don't see the point of W&T tests at affiliated level, but do think it is good that BD have produced the Intro tests for use at W&T, as before organisers were making up their own tests, some of which weren't too well thought out!
 
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I think W&T tests are great - my sec D mare had trouble cantering "together" early on so these were a great way of getting us out/about without extra stress, etc. They are also great for novice riders so everything happens slower.
 
Nats_uk said:
I completely agree with your point in terms of "dumbing down" dressage and SJ by offering W&T tests and 70/80cms SJ classes AT AFFILIATED LEVEL - I always thought going affiliated was something to work towards and should be an achievement that you are "good enough" to go affiliated so it frustrates that we are lowering the standard.
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Thing is though, 'affiliated' isn't a level, it's just people paying for better organised, fair competitions with better courses/judges etc. Why shouldn't people wanting to do W&T or 80cm courses be able to pay for well run competitions at their level? It's all pumping money into BD and BSJA, money that the whole industry benefits from.

Re the rest of the thread, each to their own, I think they are a good thing if people enjoy them and get something out of them. They certainly don't do any harm and I think it is a bit sad the way some people on this thread have belittled the people who do them and suggested that they somehow aren't worthy of taking their horse out to compete in something low level they can enjoy. Everyone has to start somewhere after all. :)
 
TGM said:
I also suspect part of the popularity of W&T tests is down to the fact that so many experienced riders stay at Prelim level when they should really be moving up to Novice, so the beginner dressage rider finds themselves up against the 'warmblood and beagler' brigade which they find intimidating. They feel that in the W&T tests they will be alongside people similar to themselves.
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Absolutely agree! The first test I did on Zoom was a prelim at Snowball farm as there was no W&T test. Some of the horses there were amazing!!!!! I find that prelims even at unaffiliated do attract a different type of horse and rider. Perhaps those starting out (ie young horses with potential to go up the levels) whereas at W&T you get alot of happy hackers who will not progress higher than prelim..............like me :D
 
boogles said:
I think w&t tests are a great way to intoduce inexperienced horses / riders into the world of competitions. I know of many people who compete at W&T and they are fab riders but they just lack the confidence to canter infront of an audience.

Also for those that think little jumping classes are pointless, What about the youngsters? not every young horse can cope with that height along with fillers, at their FIRST show. I have no shame in admitting I took lord round a 18" class.......it was his first show and yes he can jump higher but while there are the smaller classes I will make use of them to build his confidence and experience. Yes I will jump him higher next time before anyone has a go and no I am not a nervous jumper and I compete my other horse BS with success.
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Last summer we were out confidently jumping 2'6 courses - and even got our 1st red rossette. Then in the winter I fell on my face (cue trip to A&E) and 3 days off work. 2 weeks later I made myself do a 2'3 class, pony did a dirty stop and I somersaulted over his head and landed on the jump - thankfully not hurt (just bruised)

I therefore went right back down to a cross poles class a month later. I felt sixk before going in and had drunk a hip flask of brandy for courage (maybe that why i felt sick - it was 9am on a Sunday morning!! :) ) However - we went clear, no stops and I have never been happier to get a 'special' rossette.

I am in my 30's and didn't feel silly at all being in the same class as tiddlers on the lead rein. Lots of people there had seen our falls previously and we got a lovely round of applause after getting round.

I'm just glad I don't go to the same competitions as some of the less supportive people on here do - who seem to have forgotten what it is like when you are starting out / re-building your confidence for whatever reason.
 
I love the idea of w/t tests for novice riders/horses and the tiddly jumping courses are a really nice way to get out and work on jumping in the atmosphere with a nervous or novice horse or rider.

However I do not think w/t tests are appropriate even for the tinyest ODE. No-one who cannot canter their horse in control on a 20m circle in a ring should be allowed out on a XC course with 2 foot jumps, ditches, banks and waters. I would have thought any horse that isnt balanced enough to achieve a 20m circle at canter isnt balanced enough to be jumping courses either.
 
maxapple said:
I don't get why anyone who 'doesn't understand the point of them' is bothered by the fact W&T tests run??
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I totally agree with this - this is why I don't really have any interest in competing tbh! I don't mind the judges juding my riding, as that's obviously the whole point, but it's the other riders that bother me:o:( I don't want to pay just to expose myself to the kind of b1tchiness that a few posters on this forum demonstrate on a regular basis, quite frankly.:(

And yes, I can canter, thank you...:rolleyes:
 
I don't think anyone has been bitchy - the original poster asked for opinions, and frankly if anything I think the pro-W&T contingency have been a lot more rude and unwilling to take onboard different opinions. It is a debate about these tests in general and whether what they do to encourage low-level dressage is constructive - nobody has passed any judgement on the specific individuals who want to take part in these tests. Difference in opinion allows for a healthy debate surely - it is not about "bitching"! Just because people don't compete in W&T tests surely they are allowed to have an opinion?
 
I wasn't referring just to this thread, but to a general theme on the forum which surfaces every so often - hence why I said this forum and not this thread :)
 
Spudlet said:
I totally agree with this - this is why I don't really have any interest in competing tbh! I don't mind the judges juding my riding, as that's obviously the whole point, but it's the other riders that bother me:o:( I don't want to pay just to expose myself to the kind of b1tchiness that a few posters on this forum demonstrate on a regular basis, quite frankly.:(

And yes, I can canter, thank you...:rolleyes:
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aha! me too!
 
lzt said:
Thing is though, 'affiliated' isn't a level, it's just people paying for better organised, fair competitions with better courses/judges etc. Why shouldn't people wanting to do W&T or 80cm courses be able to pay for well run competitions at their level? It's all pumping money into BD and BSJA, money that the whole industry benefits from.

Re the rest of the thread, each to their own, I think they are a good thing if people enjoy them and get something out of them. They certainly don't do any harm and I think it is a bit sad the way some people on this thread have belittled the people who do them and suggested that they somehow aren't worthy of taking their horse out to compete in something low level they can enjoy. Everyone has to start somewhere after all. :)
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See that is where we will have to agree to disagree as I believe going affiliated is a "level" you should work up too. That is how I was bought up to believe anyway and that is certainly the feeling others in my local horsey circuit have.
Yes everyone has to start somewhere - but that is why there is RC/PC/unaffiliated competitions and if the quality of judges/courses aren't good enough then you show that with your feet/money and go to a better run one. Our RC always uses listed judges for dressage (except for the W&T actually!) and a BSJA course builder.
I don't think they do any harm and I think they have a place in the competing world but not on the affiliated circuit sorry!
 
Yep, I agree about affiliated. Lots of RCs are extremely well run and offer ome lovely facilities. Ours has just splashed out on lots of new fences, including a wall, and last year bought some new WH fences so our showing classes could be better too. In the same breath, we introduced W&T tests and its been brilliant to see people slowly moving up from doing the W&T tests to doing prelims and even novices!

But wehn I can enter a BS class on my 26yo, you know its too low!! Affiliated is something to aspire to, and should be elitist- it is for people who are doing v well at what they do. In the same way, I am not fully in suppoirt of BE80(T) classes. This may be because in Norfolk, most places run their unaff. round the aff. courses with the same dressage judges so there's not much point in doing the aff. until you're at BE100, where the classes begin to thin out a bit.
 
SO1 said:
Little Flea - I know you are not originally from the UK so you might not know that in the UK ponies are just not reserved for the very old or the very young. There are lots of super and competitive native british ponies who may look chunky compared to a TB but are not fat and are ridden by adults who are not very old or disabled! There are also children and those over the age of 65 who also ride horses. We are very open minded in this country when it comes to horses and who rides what.
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Hahaha. :D

Dear GOD!

When I went to Sweden (where I believe LF is from...) I went riding, and all I saw was ponies! Everyone was on them... so I doubt shes highly ignorant of our oh so liberal British ways... :rolleyes:
 
Tinkerbee said:
Hahaha. :D

Dear GOD!

When I went to Sweden (where I believe LF is from...) I went riding, and all I saw was ponies! Everyone was on them... so I doubt shes highly ignorant of our oh so liberal British ways... :rolleyes:
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Haha no, no - because we are all 6ft tall (and blonde, obviously), there are NO ponies in Scandinavia. Not even a 5-year old child would be seen on anything other than a 17hh with at least 5 generations of verified WB lineage ;-)
 
I think they are brilliant, and if they hadn't been around I would never have gone to a competition.

For those who think there is no place for them they've obviously never been in my situation. I am a first time owner, so I had never been to a show, never put a horse in a lorry (don't have my own transport), never had to warm up in a crowded collecting ring, never had to ride in front of a judge. Added to this I was extremely nervous and had very little confidence. Yes I could canter at home and canter a 20m circle etc. but with all of the added pressures and nerves it would just of been too much to ask.

By doing a walk and trot test we were able to go out to a show, have a go and slowly gain some confidence that we could manage with everything that goes on, not just the actual test.

I think the first couple of prelims I did I did do the w&t test as well to settle my nerves, but then I stopped doing them.

I am so glad some of you think prelim tests are simple, for those of us who came to competing later in life they are not - sometimes just plucking up the courage to go was a milestone.

Ok, that's enough from me, you can obviously see it's something I feel strongly about!! :D
 
It has surprised me a bit how many people seem intimidated by seeing people warming up expensive looking warmbloods at Prelim.

At our RC the dressage (Prelim and Novice) does attract "fancy warmbloods" but they rarely win, they are often youngsters/recent purchases if they are being ridden by someone serious about dressage or eventing or they are people who don't normally do dressage. The rosettes are almost always nabbed by cobs and ponies, including some veterans.

The shiney show cob is far more dangerous in a RC prelim test in my experience..........

To be honest even at the affiliated shows I regularly see cobs and ponies placing, I don't go to those myself but the sheets are often up the next day when I have my lesson and I recognise some of the names.

I think a lot of this percieved intimidation is pure insecurity and paranoia. It is big and brown and shiney therefore must be better than something black and white and hairy............
 
Katt said:
The shiney show cob is far more dangerous in a RC prelim test in my experience..........
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I find them quite useful, they act as buffers in the warm up ring for when people can't control their fancy WB's :D

''oh sh*t no brakes, aim for the coloured cob over there, that should stop us''

:D;)
 
Lolo said:
Affiliated is something to aspire to, and should be elitist- it is for people who are doing v well at what they do.
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Why? :confused:

I don't get that attitude at all! I can quite understand that people who compete at higher levels are proud of their achievements (and so they should be!) and that people who pay to compete affiliated tend to be more serious about their competitions but I don't really see how having lower level affliated comps reflects badly on anyone- surely what matters is the level you have reached within your chosen field, not what people below you are doing. :)

Some of the unaff dressage comps I have competed in at prelim level have been dreadful- useless feedback, ill qualified judges and a total shambles organisation wise. If I'd had my own transport I would much rather have paid to compete BD elsewhere, and why shouldn't I have done? I would have got a lot more out of it. :)

Anyway, interesting debate :)
 
I reckon I'm spoilt as the places I go to only use listed judges who have good reputations. I can see that if you go somewhere where that isn't true then affiliation is definitely more tempting!!
 
Kenzo said:
I find them quite useful, they act as buffers in the warm up ring for when people can't control their fancy WB's :D

''oh sh*t no brakes, aim for the coloured cob over there, that should stop us''

:D;)
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:rolleyes: :rolleyes: Well yes, I guess so!!! :D

I actually meant the biggest danger in terms of competition though ;) ;)
 
...and while we're on the subject of ridiculous debates, shall we ban lead rein classes at shows too?
(LOL..i'm not serious, this is a joke :D :D)

Seriously, what is the problem with a beginner rider, or someone with confidence issues, or a young horse being allowed to compete at a very introductory level. Isn't this a good thing?

I'm pretty sure most of the events I go to there are restrictions in place so the more advanced people don't use the intro classes as a warm up. If there were no restrictions I could see the intro's being taken advantage of otherwise.

I have to look into this more carefully actually because my other half, who has started learning to ride wants to aim to do some intro classes during the summer on my horse. Yet, I will be doing the novice on the same horse. Will this be allowed???
 
W&T is just another step in the progression along with BE80(T) and 70cm BS
It wont be that long before we have walk only tests, BE60 and 50cm BS.
Far better to accept the inevitable than to get stressed over it.;)
 
i can see both sides of this.....

i personally stick fairly hard to the *school 2 levels above which you compete* rule so by tehetime a horse goes out at prelim it should be doing easy elem at home (leg yields, 15 and 10m circles in trot and canter, baby counter canter, mediums in trot and canter) and thus should easily be able to cope with a 20m circle of canter at prelim. if you cant even hold a canter together at home, stay at home and work harder!
my current boy went out straight at novice as im group 5 so cant qual at prelim anyway,he coped fine.

on the other hand, my mum has done a few walk/trot tests as she is crippled by nerves and lack of confidence, so its a god send for her to stick to walk and steady trot currently.

i do think they have their place but need good policing-people who have competed at novice shouldnt be allowed to do them on any horse, if you can school a horse to novice....get on and do it! dont pot hunt in w/t tests. they should only be for para riders and those with little experience....but im not sure how easy this would be to check???
 
Surely all it comes down to at affiliated level (which seems to be where the argument lies, I don't think even the anti Walk/trotters want them banned at unaffiliated), is if it makes good business sense for British Dressage to run lower level classes and make more money, that is good for EVERYONE involved in that affiliated sport. More financial security for the sport, more members involved, more spectators at higher levels to support because they have become interested in dressage at a low level, even if they never ever compete any higher.

If you look at the wider picture, that has to be good doesn't it?

As for comments like this (sorry its not in quotes, I find this new forum a bit weird to use! - can't we have an equivalent walk/trot version!!!!!) :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nats_uk
I completely agree with your point in terms of "dumbing down" dressage and SJ by offering W&T tests and 70/80cms SJ classes AT AFFILIATED LEVEL - I always thought going affiliated was something to work towards and should be an achievement that you are "good enough" to go affiliated so it frustrates that we are lowering the standard.


......personally the only difference I see between affiliated and unaffiliated competitions upto the middle levels, is MONEY! Those who can afford it affiliate leaving those that can't at unaffiliated. Nothing wrong with that, but call it what it is - not about being "good enough". You might need to be "good enough" to win, but good enough to compete affiliated - don't make me laugh.
 
Doublethyme said:
......personally the only difference I see between affiliated and unaffiliated competitions upto the middle levels, is MONEY! Those who can afford it affiliate leaving those that can't at unaffiliated. Nothing wrong with that, but call it what it is - not about being "good enough". You might need to be "good enough" to win, but good enough to compete affiliated - don't make me laugh.
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I don't think that's strictly true - yes anyone can affiliate and you certainly don't have to be "good enough" but I was always under the impression that you wouldn't bother affiliating until you and your horse were doing consistently well at unaffiliated comps. I would therefor expect the standard to be slightly higher (not saying that it is, just that this is my preconception).
 
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