Walking dogs at different life stages and balancing weight/muscle

[SadKen]

Just been on holiday, and our 10 year old GSD had a fall on the first day while playing on wet grass, and lost the use of his back legs momentarily. We think he either damaged his back, or his (arthritic) hip dislocated. He recovered enough to stand in about 5 minutes, but has since been very wobbly at the back and in the first couple of days was drooping at the back end.

We have already seen a vet about the wobbliness (this was obviously worse but we have seen it before). There is no pain, he can still go up and down stairs, he is very keen to go for walks, still entirely continent. However, he is slow, has lost muscle substantially on his back and back legs, can only manage a trot, and is a bit unsteady if not nearly as wobbly or droopy as he was last week.

We realise that we are probably nearing the end.

- In the meantime I am trying to balance keeping him fed sufficiently (the muscle loss is making him look thin) and not putting too much weight on due to his hips - he's on Wainwrights senior kibble but I'm thinking of switching to something else to help with muscle support - any suggestions - I don't want to compromise kidneys with too much protein as he's on pardale for his hips? (reasonably priced is good - my younger GSD costs £80+ a month to feed, but if there's something brilliant we can fund it).
- Then there is walking - my younger GSD is super fit, super fast, ludicrously high energy and wants to run. I need to make sure he gets enough exercise whilst walking them together as much as I can, both for time purposes and because they like it. All tips welcome! I don't like him to chase balls because he doesn't care if he falls as long as he gets the ball!

 

[CorvusCorax]

Is it definitely hips or could there be added complication of DM? Hydrotherapy is good for gently improving strength.

I have one in full work who is a ball of muscle and another retired, who was very fit, who I am winding down, I just walk separately.

 

[SadKen]

Yeah, I was worried it was DM and posted last year about it.

We asked the vet, who said he doesn't think DM - he thinks the hip pain initially was sufficient to reduce him using his legs properly, and the subsequent muscle loss has put us into a vicious circle. He is OK on the pardale, doesn't seem to be hurting. He can feel his feet, and when the vet knuckled them over he put one straight immediately, then was slow on the other side which is the one he is lame on.

When he's walking, his hock on the 'bad' leg kinks out quite dramatically, so he definitely has an issue in that leg specifically.

Having looked at DM videos online, I'm not sure if it is that or not. Fundamentally though, he is likely to go off his back legs at some point whether due to DM, arthritis/muscle loss, or a back issue. We are prepared to make the decision at that point but want to keep him as happy as possible for as long as possible!

We do have a pool relatively nearby but it's fully booked on Saturdays and Sundays for the foreseeable future, so I don't think it's really an option. We were invited to come in the week but we both work, so that's not going to happen - it'd be closed by the time we got there.

I was hoping to avoid separate walks but we have discussed it, and my OH can take our old boy on his own if that's where we find ourselves.

 

[meleeka]

When I had two with differing needs I took them both for a short walk then dropped one back and carried on with the other.

My dog had arthritis in her hock because of an old injury and once she went on Codene she had a new lease of life and her muscles really improved. In hindsight I wish I’d asked my vet for it sooner, instead of trying to manage her exercise. The week before she was pts for something else we went away to the New Forest where she went for at least an hours walk every day and throughly enjoyed herself. Before the tablets she could only manage 10 minutes a day.

 

[SadKen]

Thanks, that's something that we can consider as well. We would need to do a short walk then repeat over the same route, as we only have one route to walk off lead, but it can be done. I think part of this process will be me accepting that it's not going to be the same any more. It's tough because he does still want to walk, he's just slow!

The vet has previously mentioned that he has various layers of pain relief, but I'm wary of over medicating as I don't want to zombify the old fella. He doesn't seem to be in pain, but he's probably pretty stoical. I'll ask tomorrow when I take the younger one in for his checkup.

 

[meleeka]

The vet has previously mentioned that he has various layers of pain relief, but I'm wary of over medicating as I don't want to zombify the old fella. He doesn't seem to be in pain, but he's probably pretty stoical. I'll ask tomorrow when I take the younger one in for his checkup.

Codene didn’t make my dog drowsy at all. The dose increased depending on whether she’d done more exercise than she was used to. She was also on Onsior as anti inflammatory. I got a prescription and bought Onsior online and the Codene from my local pharmacy. Codene was around £6 a month so cheap as chips really especially for the difference it made.

 

[SadKen]

I'll have a look at Onsior as well, thanks!

 

[kimberleigh]

For the walks issue could you keep the old chap on lead and let the younger one off, thus enabling ball throwing etc?

 

[Moobli]

Sounds like you are in a similar place to me with my GSDs. Sorry to hear about the old boy’s slip, must have given you a worrying few moments!

When you mentioned muscle wastage I also immediately thought of DM which, while incurable, is at least painless.
A definitive diagnosis of DM can only be made at post-mortem with microscopic examination of the spinal cord but if your vet isn’t giving even a tentative diagnosis at this stage they must be fairly convinced it’s something else. Hydro really would be helpful to build muscle back up so it’s a shame you don’t have a pool close enough with spaces.

In terms of exercise, I take everyone for a short walk, really a potter with plenty of opportunity for sniffing and mooching, and then take the oldies home and give them something to occupy them - raw bone, fish skin, stuffed Kong etc and take the younger dog out for a longer walk. I appreciate I’m extremely fortunate in that I work from home these days and so can organise my day around the dogs. I’m adding a GSD pup in a few weeks so that will add to the juggling fun!

Hope you can find a solution that work for you all.

 

[Clodagh]

Could you take them both fo0r a short walk and then do energy burning stuff with the younger dog? Scent work or finding things (is that the same thing!).
I have to do seperate walks now and it feels like a revolving door and is very boring, so I do sympathise.

 

[skinnydipper]

As nobody wanted to be left behind I walked them together as long as possible, just going at the pace of the slowest dog.

If your old chap still wants to play with the ball then throw a ball a good distance for your youngster, keep your old dog close and throw a ball towards him so he does have to run for it but can still have the pleasure of catching his ball.

The first sign of DM I noticed was the sound of nails scraping.

 

[{97702}]

I currently walk two 11/12ish year olds and a 2 year old. Maybe it's because they are sighthounds, but they self manage their walk - Millie covers 6 times the distance as everyone else at flat out speed, Amy varies but usually takes off after a squirrel/deer or two, and Flick generally potters around happily at my heels with the occasional scamper along to catch up

 

[SadKen]

Thanks folks, some good ideas and supportive words here, much appreciated

I think I am going to have to accept the revolving door of double walks, to be honest this was a last ditch attempt to ignore the fact that we will have to go down that route.

My younger lad is always off lead on walks (or in his case, sprints!) and the older one is also off but he plods at a steady walk or trot rather than anything quicker. I can't throw the ball as my younger one will sacrifice personal safety to get it if it's moving, but yesterday I dropped it and kept him to heel then sent him back for it, which seems to work.

My old boy's nails are scraping occasionally on one side but the vet says that's due to the hip arthritis and muscle loss as he isn't using the leg properly. However we are prepared for all outcomes; I'm pleased my old boy has made it to 10 as he's oversized with a heart murmur. His birthday is on Sunday and we are having a party for him.

I'd put up a picture but the forum keeps telling me the photos are too large. And here was me thinking it was easier now! 😂

 

[{97702}]

Oh bless that is lovely that you are having a party for him 😊😊

 

[meleeka]

Ref photos, are you on a phone? I googled yesterday and if you email it to yourself you can choose small,
Medium or large (I used medium). Then when you save that photo it’s the right size for the forum.

 

[SadKen]

Yay, it worked! Old boy is the lighter one.

The party will be of special magnificence!

 

[Moobli]

Hope you have a great party 🎉

Beautiful dogs!

 

[skinnydipper]

Lovely dogs. I hope he enjoys his special day.

I hadn't absorbed what you had said about your young dog chasing his ball, hence my suggestion to throw his ball, duh!

I was thinking about your dog's problem and what might help and what probably won't.

I have had a dog with DM and one with hip dysplasia.

Although it is not thought that your dog has DM, he still has a problem with his nails which will eventually bleed. I can tell you what did not work for my dog with DM. I tried nail caps - absolute rubbish. I tried a couple of types of boots, these just made it more difficult for him to walk. All I could do was try to keep to surfaces which would cause the least amount of damage to his nails. DM is relentless and there is no treatment.

My dog with hip dysplasia was seen by a physio who recommended some exercises we could do at home.

Ask him to "down" then straight to "stand" without going into a sit, do this a few times several times a day if you can.

He also recommended canine cavaletti poles. There was definite improvement and he went from knocking them all over to being able to step over them. Start low, only 3 or 4 inches, and increase height if you can. Space the poles according to the dog's stride, 19" suits my dog. Not only does it make him use his muscles but encourages him to lift his feet. If you can encourage him to lift his feet a little more then he might not trail his nails.

I hope you can find something to help him.

 

[SadKen]

Ooh good tip Skinnydipper, I never thought of using poles but he would probably quite enjoy doing a bit of training in the garden, and it's soft there anyway.

The nails aren't worn down yet, so we do have a bit of time to play with. We usually keep to the grass for the most part as well.

I guess I would have expected to see a gradual ongoing decline with DM, but I first noticed him lose balance on his bad side a year ago, and it hasn't progressed since then - he just has occasional unsteadiness, except for this time, which was triggered by the fall. He seems to have recovered from last week's incident and is no longer drooping at the back. I will try and get a video of his highly unusual hock action and post it separately.

I think he may soldier on a while longer regardless of cause, we are hoping so, but will be making his remaining time as enjoyable as possible. I guess 10 isn't a bad age for an oversized GSD; we were spoilt by our last one who reached 13.5 and was in great shape until about a month before he went.

 

[deb_l222]

I have a 14 year old, 11 year old and a 15 month old and it can be a bit tricky. At the moment though, the 15 month old is on crate rest and is confined to the house following knee surgery so it's a bit easier.

When she was walking however, our walk length and speed were dictated by the 14 year old. If she didn't look tired, we stayed out. If she was starting to flag, we headed for home. To be honest though, she's as up for a walk as she's ever been. I guess I'm lucky with springers because, if they're off lead, you can walk as slow as you like, and they will still work off energy by ducking and diving all over the place.

When Button had her cruciate repaired last year, I took a turn round the block with her AND Rufus, then dropped her off home and went back out with Rufus for a longer walk and I can see that happening with Willow when she's eventually allowed out again.

 

[skinnydipper]

SadKen. The poles need to be low - only a few inches in height, as he is just being asked to step over them at walking pace. I use 4 poles but more is better. He thinks its a game and I ask him to go over them half a dozen times minimum - he gets a treat as a reward each time and would keep playing the game for longer but I like to quit while we are ahead.

My DM dog trailed his feet bilaterally and sadly the disease progressed quite quickly, I can't remember how long now but it was less than a year. He was a big dog so I couldn't lift him and bought a ramp for him to get into the garden and another for the car. He wasn't unsteady that I recall, he just gradually lost the ability to use his back legs. It was heart breaking.

He was an otherwise healthy dog and pain free which made the decision to PTS even harder. I know some people use buggies or dog wheels but I didn't want that for Joe. It made me cringe when I read of people turning their immobile dog to prevent pressure sores - what sort of life is that?

With reference to my dog with hip dysplasia, I can best describe his gait as walking like a woman in a pencil skirt though I have seen it described as a swaying gait.

 

[SadKen]

SD the pencil skirt analogy is spot on - that's what it looks like, with a kink outwards in the left hock on every stride. It's definitely that side which 'fails'. He seems to have good sensation in feeling both feet, as he will react instantly to being tickled on his pads.

We will be using horse poles for our practice, and I will keep them on the floor

I have discounted use of wheels as I don't feel that it offers any dignity, and one thing my big dog does have is dignity. He is far too big for me to lift, OH struggles as he is 8st, I have a stretchy bit of material in case of emergency for walks but if he gets to the point where he can't get up or toilet properly, we will make the call. Just hoping it'll be a little while yet.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

We are in a different situation but our 5yr old lab has HD, shes on supplements from YUMOVE and they've helped endlessly. Is he on anything for his joints?

 

[CorvusCorax]

I call it the John Wayne walk.

 

[SadKen]

He's on pardale for pain relief, but couldn't tolerate yumove. We give him glucosamine and chondroitin tablets. There is the option for increased pain relief which we will continue to discuss with the vet.

I may get him a cowboy hat to go with his walk.