want to return horse to seller....advice pls

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emsie300

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Hi

I recently bought a 15hh, 10yr old tobiano gelding cob for £2200, have recieots etc

We have since found out that he needs professional schooling as he is a bucking bronco and that he is laminitis prone, none of these details were in the advert.

i did not get a vet check ( i regret that now) but of course he was not as described and needs some considerable monies spending on him to make him ridable for me a novice rider and also my children who are beginners.
The advert reads:
RIDE / DRIVE BOB is a lovely genuine kind mannered 9 year old TOBIANO 15 hh (Black & White) very pretty marked L/W Cob. Bob would suit any type of rider - he would be good for hacks or pleasure rides a true all rounder. He is good on hacks, in traffic, nothing fazes him - & excellent in the school - a bit of a plod/lazy. He is ridden in a snaffle bit. Bob is good with the farrier - is shod as present, to be brushed/groomed he loves to be fussed & around the yard with other horses. Only selling due to daughter not enough time to do this lovely chap justice. He has been driven in the past (not by us) and holds himself very well he has a lovely leg action we have not driven him but have long reined him and he didn't put a foot wrong! Tack is available. Good home only please !
I have since contacted the seller who refuses to take him back and also refuses to giver me my money back.
I have also asked her for her farrier details as she stated that he was seen by the farrier so she would be aware that he has history of laminits, she refuses to give me these details.
I also asked for details of where she got him from, she refuses to tell me saying it was a riding school. She states in the advert that he is good in a school but all he does is bucks.
Can i take this further as under the 'sale of goods act' as he is not as described??
Can anyone help me please as i am really struggling.
Thank you
Emma
 
I don't wish to appear rude, but this is your first posting and by what you have said you sound at best a novice and at worst an idiot or a troll.

Are you for real???
 
Oh dear Emma

You sound a novice yourself when it comes to buying. Did you not try the horse before you bought him? Did all the people going to ride him try him? Did you take someone with you in the know?

Well what does your receipt state?

You could try the citizens advice bureaux to see what they think (if you stand a chance) Not sure if the small claims court would be better (cost you less) worth a try.

Hope someone can give your a good solicitor or more encouraging advice.
 
elsbells said:
I don't wish to appear rude, but this is your first posting and by what you have said you sound at best a novice and at worst an idiot or a troll.

Are you for real???
Click to expand...

The was absolutely no need for this sort of reply. Have your thought this may be a regular user who doesn't want replies like this so opened another account. Or just someone who joined for help???

I actually remember someone posting about this horse when they were thinking of going to veiw it.

Why does everyone start shouting troll.

Emma OP take no notice welcome to the forum we are not all like this person
 
Well your first major mistake was not getting a vetting done - but that is neither here nor there now as you have him and sounds like you might be stuck with him. If he really is prone to laminitis - i,e has had it on previous occasions a good vet would have been able to tell you this might be the case.

If this is just something you are assuming because he has developed it since being with you then it could be the first time he has ever had it, maybe your management of him might have caused it in his new home. Not saying this is the case but is always a possibility when a good doer changes home and inexperienced new owners let them stuff their faces full of rich grass etc.

Also a complete change of temperament could also have a lot to do with his management. Do you know how he was fed by previous owners? Did you buy his tack with him? Does the saddle you are using fit him? Did you try him when you went to buy? How was he then? How long had they owned him? How long have you had him - is he still settling in?

Sorry haven't a clue about the legal side of things - but wouldn't have thought there is a lot you can do unless you can prove that he was possibly drugged when you tried him, as Im assuming you did try him and he behaved as described in his advert.

Do feel for you but have to say I also feel for the poor horse - at the end of the day, old owner doesnt want him, new owner doesnt want him and unless his problems are sorted out who will want him? Not a great future for him is it?
 
Well i am sorry i have upset so many people, yes this is my first horse, you have to start somewhere, how do you gain experience otherwise.
Yes i did ride him, i also took someone else to ride him and also my livery yard owner who has far more experience than i of buying horses.
I was just asking for advice as i have been advised to take the horse back, people have told me they have done so i thought this was the right way.
Once again i am sorry to have upset people and aware that i am merely human and make mistakes, i was not aware that i was the only one in the world to do so.
Several other experienced riders witnessed the bucking and advised me that they would not get on him as he is dangerous. I am not the sort of person who EVER gives up on animals as i own several. Please don't judge me as i all was asking for was advice from other horse people surely that is not a crime?.
 
Thank you for this, i did find this post very unhelpful and offensive really. what is it with the troll comment? I was only after some help! Thank you flower lady!
 
TBH, it sounds a bit grim to me. If he's 9 years old and bucking, i'd be dubious about putting a novice or child on him - ever :(

If you bought the horse from a private individual (and it sounds like you did), then your rights are limited and i'm sure others will quote the old saying - Caveat Emptor - let the buyer beware.

The best advice I can give you is to cut your losses, horses aren't worth getting hurt with. Just rely on someone knowledgable to guide you and see if you can find a reputable dealer who will take him in a swap, put him in a sale or advertise him yourself honestly.

Sad though it is, this is what happens to novices who go horse shopping with good intentions and money in their hands. I'm sorry :( Hope you get it sorted
 
I don't agree with some people's comments, if you are a novice and the previous horse owner has talked the talk etc then your bound to be under the impression this horse is suitable and from the advert the horse sounds like something i can imagine a novice going to see. Did you take an experienced person with you?? I'm sure there is some sort of legal action you can take. i understand some of the above comments about returning horses but if you have been well and truly ripped off then sending it back is a probably best for you!!! to the comment about riding it and trying to work through it......if you were a little more experienced i would agree but if this horse broncs as much as you described then you could get very hurt and i dread to think what it may be like in traffic if the advert was a far from the truth description of the horse. I would however have back and teeth checked just to make sure its not an unfortunate one off and he's got a bad back or something. If given the all clear then try seeking some legal advice.
 
1. Most cob types are lamimitis prone,they are good do-ers,so will be.
2. Most black and white cobs will not be "bucking broncos", they may buck,but not "bronco"-like,they arnt built for it.
OP, you sound very novicey. You should have had the horse vetted,but these things most [robably wouldnt have shown up in a vetting anyway. You should have taken an experienced BHS qualified instructor with you when viewing the animal.
Get yourself some decent riding lessons and horsemanagement instruction at a BHS establishment and pay smeone to ride the horse for you until you are capable of doing it yourself.
 
The lady has lied all the time, we asked all these questions before we bought him, she has since back tracked and lied even more as she could not remember her previous lies.
Yes i agree, people should not lie, she knew i would at some point like my children to ride him. thats disgusting, not people like me. Thank you for your help and kind words.
 
Hello OP. Ignore the comments from the "experts" (that's how they like to think of themselves).
If you bought the horse from a private seller, then I think it's a case of "buyer beware", however if the horse was from a trader, then you should be able to return the horse as under Trading Standards legislation, the horse is not as described.
If you think you want to work with this horse, then maybe get a physio to have a look at it - maybe it has a muscular problem in it's back - hence the bucking, and get teeth checked by vet or equine dental technician and the saddle checked by a good saddle fitter.

I hope you get the matter sorted one way or another.
 
Op I am sorry you are feeling so upset - but sadly this is a common story from new and novice horse owners, and personally I always cringe thinking of the poor horse in the situation. My reply wasn't meant to have a go at you - merely suggesting certain things that might or might not be causing problems for your new horse.

Does you YO offer anyways of dealing with this if you can't get your money back, can they suggest anyone to help get him through this. I can't believe that someone who came with you and rode the horse and unassumingly thought it suitable for you are now just throwing their hands in the air and saying send him back hes dangerous?:confused:

Have they offered any explanation of why he might be like this now and anything you could try to resolve it? How long have you had him?
 
Well esmie300 you have not upset me and as I said alot of people just like to jump on people instead of trying to help especially as this forum has been invaded by a few trolls in the past. Did you buy the saddle you tried him in? What was he like when you tried him? What did you do Hack out, road work and school work? If he's bucking which sounds like it's that thats worrying you it could be his saddle or bridle fitting. Can the YO not help or give you some on the spot advice? What did they think when they came with you.
 
FWIW:

I had a similar experience: However mine wasnt a bucking bronco as she was simply to broken to ever be fixed.

By the time i tracked the sellers down they had physically up sticks and moved, i had police try and find them and also went down the trading standards route.

Basically i was told that it wasnt going to happen, firstly they had disappeared and secondly its such a minefield (horse buying) I ended up claiming LOU on my insurance as *counts blessings* she was fully insured and i got my money back that way.
(I still have her :) )
 
God it took me so long to type my previous comment emsie300 that lots more people had commented (i was half typing half on the phone and also watching TV at the same time) good luck with whatever you decide to do but this horse could seriously hurt you. Can you imagine if you had put one of your children on!! :-/ i am the kind of person who like something quirky but i like honest owners that are selling them for that reason the fact this lady has lied to you i would want to throttle her!
 
I'm afraid that I don't think you would have a leg to stand on. As sad as it is legally i'm sure you have to proove that the horse showed this behaviour before you bought him and that it was not therefore caused by yourself (not saying it is, just what the law seems to demand!). You said that you rode him and your YO also did whilst at the old property, I presume he was good then and not bucking. Has he definately come with the same saddle? Sometimes people will sell the horse with tack but that tack is probably an old saddle they've been trying to get rid of for ages and the saddle you tried him in is still at their yard! Other option could be that he'd been doped but proving that without a vetting and bloods is impossible i'm afraid.

I'm sorry that this has happened. My advise to you, would be if not already, get him checked by a vet, then a physio or chiropractor (they cannot treat him without vets permission) and then saddler. If all this comes back with nothing wrong then you will have to consider your next options, which will be send him for schooling, sell him or have him put to sleep. I'm sorry to be so blunt and it's an awful situation to be as a novice owner. Lesson learnt, always get a vetting.
 
Wow, I am very surprised at some responses! How unfair.

I *think* i joined this forum when i was having issues with my horse who incidentally was quiet/lazy when i tried him and i had him vetted and i'm not a complete novice either.

OP- I am very sorry you have found yourself in this situation. I also fully agree that the seller is in the wrong, Unless it could be as someone else has suggested a change in feed/ just the move etc.
The old owner sounds very defensive- was she like this when you first contacted her? Unfortunately i think you probably wont get your money back as you have no real rights but its certainly worth contacting someone legal for advice.

Good luck x
 
Wow some of these replies are just downright rude!

The OP stated she was a novice - all novices need help for gods sake.
This forum USED to be helpful, and an ideal place for novicey people to ask for help.

We all started with a 0 post count at one stage - so does that make every single one of us a 'troll' just for signing up??


OP - without a vetting you cant prove the horse was doped unfortunatly. What you can do however is video the horses behaviour in differing circumstances preferably with a very experienced rider on top - that way, should the horse be naughtly it cant be blamed on you being a novice.

At the end of the day a vetting would have picked up the lami - so nothing you can do about that but it would not have proved anything about the bucking apart from maybe pointing out tenderness in the horses back.

You can take it to court if the prevous owner wont help as you HAVE been sold a horse that is not fit for the purpose you purchased it for.

A friend recently sent back a horse she bought as it didnt hack - she did have one hell of a battle to get her money back though, so be prepared for it to be a hard slog.

Good luck
 
There are potentially many reasons why your new horse may be bucking now, but did not before, and may never have before. It might have, but unfortunately you cannot prove either way. Is the saddle the one that you tried him in, or is it a different supplied or one you have bought yourself. If it is a new saddle, even if fitted by a qualified saddle fitter, it may simply not fit, and a badly fittting saddle is notorious for making horses buck.

As for the laminitis, has your vet or farrier said that there are signs of previous attacks?

I am sorry you are in this situation, but with a change of home, possibly a change of saddle, more novice riders etc, your horse may well have been 'as described' and the onus is on you to prove he was not. Good luck sorting it.
 
Please answer the questions about tack OP as I found the advert and it looks like the saddle in the photo is not a good fit.

A slight change in weight can make a "not too good a fit" saddle into a painful one.
What do you mean by "bucking bronco"?
I have ridden horses who buck when fresh or when fed oats or barley and also ones who buck to get the rider off -very different.
What bit are you using and what was he tried in?

What history is in the passport? You should be able to see which vets have vaccinated and how long the sellers owned him.


Prone to laminitis is not a reason to return even if you purchased from a dealer and if you tried him you are stuck with him. Work with what you have and get his back & bit/teeth checked.
 
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Sorry to read this - I was also in the same situation with my first horse, the novice owner duped by liars.

As others have suggested, the sad fact is that trading standards will offer you no help. Like buying a second hand car, you have little legal standing here. You can put pressure on the owner and see if she will take the horse back, but from what you have described of her attitude I doubt this will happen.

You need to cut your losses, either by working to solve the horse's problems or contacting a reputable dealer to see if you can trade for a more suitable horse, or if they will take him. I would expect this would be at a loss.

Laminitic-prone ponies can easily be kept healthy with correct management. This isn't a major problem; it maybe just takes a re-think of your current set up. Myself and many others on this forum will be happy to give you advice regarding this.

His bucking issue is more difficult to solve. The most likely reason for it is pain. Have your saddle checked by a professional saddler, regardless of whether it is the one you tried him in or not. If you already have done this, it may be worth getting someone out for a second opinion.

If it is not the saddle, get a vet out to look at his back and recommend you to a good physiotherapist/chiropracter. This should hopefully be able to locate the specific issue. Also have the vet check his teeth for any edges that could be causing pain.

If every single test has been done, and no pain can be found, then it is a schooling issue. Considering your experiance, I would then look at sending him to a professional for reschooling. Look for someone who will do the first steps for you, and then will be willing for you to come to the yard and work with them in the process.

If you do decide to take these options, a simple post on here with your area will field some good contacts for chiros, vets and riders to school.

Whatever you decide, good luck. If it is any comfort for you, that first horse i was conned into buying gave me six wonderful years in the end. It was a very steep learning curve, but I came out a much better horse person in the end.

Good luck!!
 
Shame the vetting wasn't done and I would have thought if you had a experienced friend and yard owner they would off suggested this, did they?
How long have you owned him?
Again the question on tack?
I also really hate the " return " bit that many people seem to try and do.
I sold a horse end off feb, lady had ridden him for 3 months before buying off me and now 4 months on the horse is being a nightmare but I have offered to buy the horse back because I know what a lovely horse it is and is being ruined by again a novice owner.
I know novice owners have to start somewhere but the point I'm trying to make is, are you sure this is the horses fault? Teeth, back, tack etc been checked? Have he settled in? Or are you shouting loudly without looking into any problems first and once again as iv seen many times " ponies fault"
 
If you trieed the horse and had other poeple trying him then why wasnt he bucking during this??

People like to say the horse was doped when the attitude changed or summat goes wrong aferwards.

No offence OP but if your YO/expereienced friend found nothing to put you of the horse then maybe you should look at the fact that it could be how he is being kept. How do you know the horse is prone to Lami?? Who told you this??? Sorry if I have missed these answers above.

We all start out somewhere but I am afraid that you may just have to get the schooling or issues sorted or sell on but TBF you wont get half of what you paid (if anything) if he is as bad as your making him out to be.
 
OP I have been in the same position as you, although I am not a novice rider, but answered a similar ad to the one you did. It is very easy for people to mislead you, although I personally went to look at every horse with my cynical head on. I would go down the tack etc route everyone has suggested, also wonder what his workload was and what it is now? Unfortunately you have no come back, it always amazes me that the horseworld seems to be the only one where you can be ripped off without being able to do much about it. Perhaps you could have a word with a behavourist to see if they can
come upo with something. Hope you get something sorted.
 
elsbells said:
I don't wish to appear rude, but this is your first posting and by what you have said you sound at best a novice and at worst an idiot or a troll.

Are you for real???
Click to expand...

Are YOU for real?

Just because someone might have been sold a dud, and because us 'experts' would perhaps not have fallen for it.....you instantly accuse a new poster to be a Troll?

Lovely welcome, I must say.

Get your head out of your ass, and cut the OP a bit of slack...until it is PROVED this is a troll, lay off.

OP, I would get the help of an instructor or someone as soon as you can, unfortunately, I can't see you having much luck in sending the horse back unless you have a bottomless pit of money to pay the legal costs, but you might be able to sell the horse on once some problems are sorted out to a more experienced person.

Good luck, and don't be put off by the negatives, we ARE meant to be here to help each other, but I am afraid far too many are 'Holier Than Thou' and THINK they know better.

Let us know how you get on.
 
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