want to return horse to seller....advice pls

you know i think its just nasty how lots of people on this thread are talking to the OP! she is asking for help and all you can say is how she "should have taken a BHS instuctor" etc etc. At the end of the day, OP is right, novice owners have to start somewhere! And just to add, i've seen cobs bronc with the best of them.

I think the best port of call is get all of his tack checked by a proper master saddler, get a physio out who is chartered with ACPAT then if all else fails, maybe you should think about selling on. I don't blame you for not wanting to get on it :)
 
OP, perhaps if you let us know whereabouts you are, there may be some people on here in that area who can recommend a good saddle fitter/back person/trainer etc for you to check with?
 
elsbells said:
I don't wish to appear rude, but this is your first posting and by what you have said you sound at best a novice and at worst an idiot or a troll.

Are you for real???
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There is no need to be so rude, I'm sure there was a time when you weren't so knowledgeable as you obviously are now and no doubt you made plenty of mistakes. The OP was asking for advice, if you can't reply in a polite manner why reply at all??

OP

If you bought the horse from a dealer you are protected by the Sale of Goods Act, however if you bought it privately there isn't much you can do.

As others have said get back, teeth etc checked and also have the saddle re checked by a qualified saddle fitter - Andy Wheals is very good and travels around the country.

If everything is okay with all of the above,ask someone more experienced than yourself if they will try and ride and see if they have more success.

Either way this pony doesn't sound the right one for you and your daughters.
 
Don't think you've got a leg to stand on to be fair, it happened to someone on a yard I was working on a long time ago.
Friend sold on a "project" cob , new owner did hardly any work with it, ended up fat and laminitic. Friend got a phone call demanding a return but without a vetting, they will just say it was your fault for not getting it vetted.
 
The problem lies in proving that they lied to you and others in the advert.
Horses are quite capable of sussing out who and who they can and cannot play up with before you even get on them. He might never have done it with them but after a few days realised that he could get out of work by 'sorting you out'
He could well have tried a few minor things and got away with them so these things escalated into more major things.
Afraid that you return him on the laminitis issue. That was up to you to be able to see from his feet that he has had previous issues with it. A vet would have known.

What are you feeding him? A dietary change can make a big difference and some horses on hard feed blow their brains.
You can try and get him returned or get an experienced person to help you with him. As was said a cob as described can rarely buck enough to take the skin off a rice pudding and it could just be a matter of you learning how to be his master.

Sorry but I somehow think you have learned a lesson the hard way. If you go horse hunting 1) take an experienced person who knows the standard you ride at.
2. If you can ride the horse more than once.
3. Always have a horse vetted.
As an addition I would also state that you should never be hustled into making up your mind. Sellers will often say that they have someone else interested to make you hurry and buy. In that case I will tell them to let the other person try him and if he is not sold to get back to me. 99% of the time they get back so, the ball is in my court.
 
The_Hooligan said:
No, this whole 'send it back' culture is disgusting, would not have even been thought of 10 years ago. find some help with the pony, or give it to someone with the knowlegde he needs
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If the seller was honest in the first place it would have ended up in a suitable home.
 
The advert (easy to find from OPs words) looks like seller probably not a dealer

Cob looks hollow backed and croup high from pictures so saddle may have 4 pressure points.
On the advert there looks to be a thick numnah underneath.
The stirrup leather does not hang parallel to the stitching on the saddle which is pommel high--suggesting the saddle is too narrow fit and could be putting pressure on/pinching the shoulders at least with thick numnah under

OP needs help
Most of us understand how much pain can be caused by ill fitting saddle and the horses reaction to that pain.
Saddle needs to be checked for broken tree and probably reflocked to cater for hollow back if saddle fitter considers it wide enough fit

And as above, teeth, back checked etc
 
I think it is pretty much agreed that the Op will not get her money back sadly. But I do think it is well worth giving this horse a chance if we make the assumption it was neither doped nor in a different saddle.

3 years ago I sold a Polish warmblood X to a novice owner who was a fairly good rider and wanted something sane and sensible to do riding club and low level show jumping. This mare was to be her first horse. She came and tried her, horse didnt put a foot wrong (as was normal for her) and the woman was delighted to buy her after it passed a 5 stage vetting.

Forward on 3 weeks I started getting panic stricken emails to say the mare was a total nutcase, her farrier had to stop trying to shoe her and declared the horse to dangerous even to handle!:eek: Woman was too scared to even try to get on her. After several emails and phone calls trying to find out what the hell had happened to my mare to cause this total personality change, purely by chance, the new owner mentioned that the made to measure saddle she had also bought with the mare was slipping all the time.

Alarm bells started to ring - this saddle I knew was a perfect fit - turned out the poor mare had been turned out onto super rich grazing, being fed 2 hard feeds a day (I had said she was a good doer and wouldn't need feed if her grass was good) and was now a very rotund, fizzed up to the eyeballs raving lunatic!:mad:

Told her to get her straight off the grazing, cut out all hard feed and start lunging her to get some of the fizz out of her. Within 2 weeks her farrier couldn't believe it was the same horse as she stood quietly to be shod.

Forward on 3 years, the woman absolutely adores her, now does very well at both riding club and show jumping, thinks she is the safest horse on God's earth and often emails me to thank me for selling her the perfect horse.

The point of that rather long tail is that IF the OP is making similar mistakes (and is not her fault as doesn't sound like she has anyone sensible and with enough knowledge to help her) - if things can be sorted, and are sorted, this little horse may well still turn out to be the lovely safe family horse she hoped she had bought?
 
pastie2 said:
Poor you OP, you certainly need help. All is not lost looking at some of the replies you have had. Dont give up on this horse, get the saddle sorted, lami is containable and get a vet to check him out. He is yours now, for better or worse and you are in a position to get him right. Look on the positive side, it will be a learning curve. Nothing that is worthwhile in life comes easy! Make the best of what you have got.
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Lovely post.

:D
 
I would look very very carefully at what he is being fed. Most novice owners believe the feed marketeers propaganda, that all horses need this or that brand of feed, even producing 'low calorie' feeds! :eek:
Get him back to basic grass/hay, have all the checks done, and then maybe get an instructor in to give you a hand
Good luck
 
If it was an overnight change from angel to hell on four feet then I'd suspect dope. Patches' friend certainly didn't come off best when the person she had sold her (perfectly lovely) pony to took her to court :(
 
Where did you go to get him? I remember seeing the advert and thinking he sounded lovely - bloody liar advertisers should be shot!
 
I thought it was only dealers that could be in breach of goods act.

Think you'd have to prove that she knew that he bucks etc. Personally I believe horses act different with different riders if allowed to do so. Get a good instructor to help you out.

When I bought my gelding he was made out to be ideal as a first horse. It would take me two hours every night for 3 months to catch him. Stupid me had always arrived at previous owner's when he was in the stable so never seen him being caught. He does have other faults but won't go into them lol!

It will be a massive learning curve and he may come right. Perhaps give him a few months whilst having lessons. I do understand the feeling of ending up with something that you weren't expecting. Hope it works out for you.
 
Jeez, half way through this and I have to say some of you need to remember YOU were once a novice and a new owner.

I think a few of you need to get your heads out of your asses not just the first poster.

I hope the OP hasn't been put off from posting and will get the advice and help she needs from those willing to give it rather than those who want to appear self important and knowledgeable.
 
elsbells said:
Just needed clarification folks! Don't shoot me as I'm only asking up front what a few will question.
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I personally thought your response really rude and arrogant - so what if it is a troll or a genuine person!

They asked for help - there is no need to be rude to anyone on the site especially when they are new.

If you have nothing plesent or helpful to say then don't press Submit.
 
Emsie300 - have you tried 'Googling' the phone number. If this person buys and sells reasonably regularly her number will pop up with several different adverts.

If this happens then you may have a person who is a 'Dealer' and then you are covered by the Consumers Act.
 
Ok I holdy hands up I am a troll, as I once was a first time poster who had a problem!!!!!!!!


OP it is such a shame what has happened to you, please don't give up on HHo on the whole we are a friendly bunch.

As for your new horse that is horrid, is the sale of goods different to trades description?
 
sending the horse back is just not going to happen, accept it, it will takes loads of time and money that could be spent on dealing with this horse that you liked and bought. so here goes, start at the very beginning - get back man out to check fitting of saddle and horses back, dentist out to check and do teeth, check how much you are feeding said horse, hopefully no cereal or oats in fact should only be on already grazed grass and a handful of hay if in at night that will look after the lami. when you have done all the above, start lunging and longreining this will be fun for you as you are a novice and really should be learning everything there is to know about owning and riding horses/ponies and you will then pass that on to your children, so if it means going for a few lessons or getting someone out to teach you how to lunge and longrein, then put the saddle back on and lunge/longrein, then get on and just take it slowly, cobs do not bronc they may put in a lil buck but give yourself a neck strap and for the good lords sake dont let any horse feel the nervousness in you otherwise you will be giving them the wrong signals and having the situation you have at present, give both of yourselves a chance. you will smile, trust me
 
It matters little whether this is a dealer or not, the animal is not as descried, could have been doped or just schooled a lot to tire it out, but it is not a plod suited to beginners.
OP did take along others, what are they saying now?
Don't feed it pony cubes at all, and go to CAB and/or local authority Consumer Services to find out where you are. The BHS society Gold Memberhip also gives legal help.
Do you have the address and where was it advertised.
 
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I've read a lot of the replies on here and quite frankly I am shocked and disgusted with some of the nasty, insulting, hurtful and uncaring things that have been said about the author and the horse.

Firstly I go by the saying " there's no such thing as a bad horse, it's the owners" or in this case PREVIOUS owners.

I, like the author, was an inexperienced horsey person shopping with money in my hand and I nearly got rolled twice for money for bad horses. Thankfully I had them both vetted and it was the vets advice that stopped me buying them. In this case no vetting etc was done and the author bought the horse in good faith.

I have just gone down a similar route with my yearling. Unmanageable, crashing through fences, walking into me and generally being a right royal pain in the ass. I toyed with getting rid and even giving him to Bransby to re home but in the end I didn't. I persevered, I got in touch with a Recommended Associate from Intelligent horsemanship Group ( Monty Roberts) and got them to come out and take me back to basics with handling and groundwork and by the sounds of this horse that is what you will have to do too. Get the groundwork right before attempting to get back on him. Its not as expensive as you might think. the other route is to have teeth,back, tack etc checked as this may be a reason for the bucking.

Trust and respect is a two way street as far as horses and handlers go and all that generally starts with basic ground work and manners. I would appeal to the author of the post to consider this route before thinking of moving the horse on. There's no telling where he will end up and I think that's a lot for an animal lover to have on their conscience.

I never saw myself with a youngster, its been a hugely stressful learning curve but as I have said I have learnt an awful lot and I think it has made me a more rounded horsey person because of it but I by no means know it all and others on this site should remember the same.

I wouldn't post on here again as it seems a lot of people on here are not very understanding and prefer to mock people asking for help rather than share their knowledge. Those of you who have been rude or disrespectful should be ashamed of yourselves. It takes a bigger person to ask for help and guidance rather than just blundering on blindly and making the problem worse.

If the author wants to send me a personal message I will be happy to help re the route of getting help for the IH group.
 
I would ask your local BHSI (ring BHS to find) to come and assess him, and if necessary write a report.
That way you will get an idea if it's feed/grass/saddle/sheer taking the p ** that is causing his problems. It may be he is taking advantage of novice riders I'm afraid.
Write to the seller by reg. letter saying you have had this done and the result was... If there is enough evidence also say you will be contacting Trading Standards as he is not fit for the purpose sold. A bit of bluff often goes a long way.
Make an effort to discover more about him by asking on here if anyone would pm you if they know the yard where he came from, with any luck you may turn up their farrier or evidence of the owner having had him treated.
I am sorry this has happened, but don't give up just yet, often rogue sellers cough up when challenged hard enough..
 
The first thing to do is to write a diary of events while fresh in your memory,dates and anything that the vendor said to you which is not truthful, or which persuaded you to buy it.

You made it obvious that you were all novices, and that you wanted a quiet family horse., this is your big card, the fact that the seller is experienced and you are not.

You need to write down ALL expenses and ongoing costs.
You ask Consumer Services, most LA have an office, ask for an appointment with the manager, as you want to get this sorted asap.
I think a letter should be sent, I assume you have the address, as you have a receipt, and you went to view the horse, if not that will require further investigations.
The letter should make it clear that you purchased in good faith, a family plod
mention the particular phrases and your complaint.
You are incurring expenses of so much per week but if she collect the horse within the next seven days, and returns the money [in cash] you will waive the weekly expense.
There are more safeguards in the Trades Description act for purchasers from trade, but you have the Trading Standards lot to help you out.
Look out for another ad appearing in the same place , you can use a new phone to call up and a friend can ask Qs.
Good luck with that, and apologies on behalf of all these idiots who jumped on you because they are so darn clever, they have never done anything which in hindsight is a bit naive.
 
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elsbells said:
I don't wish to appear rude, but this is your first posting and by what you have said you sound at best a novice and at worst an idiot or a troll.

Are you for real???
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how can you possibly expect to say such horrible things and not appear to be rude?
Its so nice to see that so many folk have spoke out to support the op .
Its a horrible place to be but i was in exactly the same position a couple of years back. I now have a smashing horse who does exactly what i bought him for.... ive loved the experience of turning him round. My approach once i got over the initial shock was to gain his trust on the ground and slowly move on step by step .... gaining each others trust along the way. Good Luck!
 
OP is obviously a "novice", and there's nothing wrong with that, we've all been there, and our first horse has turned out to be not quite as expected!!!

However this is obviously frigtening and distressing, to realise that the horse you saw and liked has turned into a monster!

This isn't unusual OP!! If he's a cob, then cobs are usually very adept and clever at working out the experience (or lack of it) of the rider - mine does it and very quickly gets the measure of someone he thinks he can get away with things with! Bear also in mind that he's still probably settling in, getting used to a new routine etc.

Personally I'd get a physio/saddle fitter out PDQ as bucking is very often a sign of pain. That would be essential IMO. Then ditto teeth as again this can have a huge impact.

If you've bought from a private seller, I don't think you will be able to return him; and that's just being realistic. Unfortunately the law does not do enough IMO for situations like this.

There are several options: you could put him out on loan with someone who's got the experience to deal with him; OR you could get someone to ride him/school him for you; OR you could send him away for schooling (but IMO the horse and rider have to work TOGETHER and he'd probably revert to the original behaviour with you); OR you could send him away to equestrian college on working livery for an academic year?

OR ..... you could decide OK so this is "my" horse now, and by golly I'm gonna sort the blighter! OK so this might seem a formidable task, but if you had the right help you might be in a better position to make an informed decision.

Personally, what I think you need to do is get some expert help in to assess you, the horse and the way both of you inter-react together, before anything else. The laminitis is not what you wanted, obviously, but again, you need to talk to your vet plus other people (lots of help available on this forum!) about how you can best manage it - I've had a lammi in the past and it IS manageable.

I'd recommend an Intelligent Horsemanship practitioner - their website should give you someone in your area. I really feel that you need someone else who's experienced in "quirky" horses to give you some unbiased advice and help you through this.

With the whole selling/moving home process, even the most ploddy cob types can become unsettled and develop quirky habits with a new rider, so what you're experiencing isn't, I would suggest, unusual.

I believe there's a website called "Project Horses" - this is if you do decide to sell him on. OR you could use an agent, which is what I did once with a horse that I'd bought who was a lovely boy but just too sharp for me - an agent isn't really the same as a dealer and you'd need to ask around for a recommendation, but well worth considering IME as if he doesn't suit you, it might be there's someone else he would suit perfectly.

He does sound a typical cob I have to say! IF you can stick with it, and persevere (with help) - you'll get incredibly fond on him and I know from my own experience with my boy that you'll be so glad you do ....

Good luck!
 
Vicki_Krystal said:
Wow some of these replies are just downright rude!

The OP stated she was a novice - all novices need help for gods sake.
This forum USED to be helpful, and an ideal place for novicey people to ask for help.

We all started with a 0 post count at one stage - so does that make every single one of us a 'troll' just for signing up??
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Some of the posters on here need to get back under their own bridges

i do find it slightly amusing that the troll screamers appear to be quite new to the forum themselves with joining dates of 2010 / 11 . Dragon slayer said exactly what i was going to say to the first reply so saved me the bother ...thanks DS :p

Many people join this forum when they have a problem, I used to read it and only signed up after buying a new horse which we had some issue's with etc.

OP, lots of good advice given , give the boy the benefit of the doubt for now and get everything checked as suggested. good luck and let us know how you get on.
 
MrsD123 said:
The first thing to do is to write a diary of events while fresh in your memory,dates and anything that the vendor said to you which is not truthful, or which persuaded you to buy it.

You made it obvious that you were all novices, and that you wanted a quiet family horse., this is your big card, the fact that the seller is experienced and you are not.

You need to write down ALL expenses and ongoing costs.
You ask Consumer Services, most LA have an office, ask for an appointment with the manager, as you want to get this sorted asap.
I think a letter should be sent, I assume you have the address, as you have a receipt, and you went to view the horse, if not that will require further investigations.
The letter should make it clear that you purchased in good faith, a family plod
mention the particular phrases and your complaint.
You are incurring expenses of so much per week but if she collect the horse within the next seven days, and returns the money [in cash] you will waive the weekly expense.
There are more safeguards in the Trades Description act for purchasers from trade, but you have the Trading Standards lot to help you out.
Look out for another ad appearing in the same place , you can use a new phone to call up and a friend can ask Qs.
Good luck with that, and apologies on behalf of all these idiots who jumped on you because they are so darn clever, they have never done anything which in hindsight is a bit naive.
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That's right MrsD123, sue sue sue! This could cost the OP a lot of money and there is no guarantee that she has a case, you really do enjoy a good legal claim don't you :rolleyes:

OP I am sorry you have found yourself in this position but I really don't think you have a leg to stand on, you did not have the horse vetted and he has since developed laminitis, it is entirely possible that this is a management issue that has happened since you got him, without a vetting you cannot prove that it was not.

Horses do take time to settle and quite often display behaviour not shown previously in their old home, others have asked (and sorry if you have already replied) if you are using the same tack, have you also had his back and teeth checked? Diet can also play a massive part in behavioural issue and it is worth putting him on a fibre only diet with a vit/min supplement. The other thing to take into account is that you are a novice and maybe are not as confident as you could be when handling and riding him, it takes an absolute saint of a horse not to react to this.

You say you took experienced people with you? Sadly they may not be as experienced as you presumed (or they would have advised you to have the horse vetted tbh), they were just more 'experienced' than you were.

Try to work through this, horses are complicated so and so's at the best of times and, if you can get a proper trainer to help you, a year from now you may be wondering why you were so worried in the first place :)
 
Horsesforever1 said:
2. Most black and white cobs will not be "bucking broncos", they may buck,but not "bronco"-like,they arnt built for it.
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I haven't read all the replies so sorry if someone else has already mentioned this, but can I just point out that this is definitely not true? I know this because we all had exactly that dismissive attitude at the yard where I work, when a heavyweight coloured cob came in for reschooling because he apparently "bronced" when mounted. We all rolled our eyes and said yeah right, tiny bunnyhop buck maybe... until we got someone on him and he tried to turn himself inside out - I have never seen ANY horse bronc like that! You'd be amazed how agile this hairy great dopes can be...

To the OP - If you've listened to everyone else's advice and confirmed that it's definitely not the saddle, bit, change in environment or anything else other than a true behavioural issue, then I'd advise getting help from someone who specialises in reschooling problem horses (find someone who has a good reputation and proven results, because a lot of pretend experts do more harm than good) - even if you don't want to keep him afterwards anyway, you're not going to be able to get rid of him if he's unrideable.
 
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