Wanting more sharpness!

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Lauren_abigail

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Does anyone have any tips on how to sharpen up your ride?

My 6yr old Welsh D X WB used to be very sharp (however I think it was due to him being very unbalanced and green)

As he has matured over the last year with me, he has become less sharp. I'm finding that unless I ride with spurs / whip he isn't as keen to move off or away from my leg (don't get me wrong, he does work properly, it's just effort!)

I rode a friends horse last night and was astounded by how little leg was needed to keep him forward and round, very much more from the seat.

Now this horse, granted, is working at elementary and we are just dipping our toes into novice work, but I would love for Jack to go more from my seat and not feel like I am constantly flapping at him to keep him forward.

On the flip side, when Jack wants to (gets one on him!) he can become very sharp again, I would like it to become more consistent.

Any tips?
 
It's taken me flippin long enough for the penny to drop on how to achieve this but I've got there eventually with my lazy pony, who now goes off a whisper. I've basically had to be super disciplined with myself. Absolutely no nagging or reminders for the horse. They go off the leg first time every time. If this doesn't happen, it's a split second later that they get a pony club kick and / or a sharp slap. And you have to be strict with yourself to keep your legs off. When you apply an aid, the horse should do something. It doesn't matter if it gets it wrong eg, breaks into canter when you ask for trot but it must react.
 
Well this is sort of what I thought would be the case but I find myself asking, getting a reaction, then keeping leg off to stop myself from nagging. But after a few strides I will lose impulsion, the contact becomes inconsistent and then I have to ask again. And so the circle repeats and I end up nagging again :s
 
I remind myself of this periodically by watching clips of Hannah biggs, tim stock dale and Charlotte du jardin, who all stress this point (as I'm sure many others do but they're the 3 that have really brought it home for me).
 
leflynn said:
I've used this in the past : http://www.schoolyourhorse.com/2010/12/28/be-a-lazy-rider/ and also this :http://www.mary-wanless.com/Article6.html
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Thank you, a couple of interesting articles. I shall have a crack at the advised techniques later today - watch this space, I may end up being rocketed around the arena!

The only reserve I have here is that my boy is not a huge fan of the stick, it tends to make him tense up and rush so I don't carry it often.

Perhaps using it more whilst getting him to sharpen up should get him accustomed to being ridden with one.
 
My lazy horse has occasionally become tense and worried about the prospect of me demanding she move her ass but quite frankly, she'll just have to live with being a bit worried. We've come through the tension now cos she realises that forward means forward and my aids are tiny now, which has cycled us back to relaxation and a lack of tension.
 
It all got worse before it got better. There were occasions when I didn't care what happened - she just had to go forward. We had unbalanced lurches forward, blasts into canter, bucking, spooking, neck upside down but I just ignored it all and insisted on going off the leg. Once that was established, I refined everything else. I love riding her now. My legs are more off than on and I can literally move my legs a millimetre further off and she'll trot, canter, leg yield, whatever. Once it's sorted, it's a pleasure to ride them.
 
That's great Poppy, yes send me some videos, it would be great to see. Also good to know it is possible to sharpen up and end up successful.

Jack struggles with lateral work as he won't move away from my leg so I'm hoping that by sharpening him up this will then come?
 
Hi
I have a 5 year Welsh mare who went from bonkers and sharp as ***** to being slightly lazy and behind the leg ( interestingly we could stay in the arena and do a obedient test but got worse marks than when she was crazy)
Had a lesson with a list 1 judge last Friday and she taught me this
1. Open hips and knees and let horse come through
2. Do loads of transitions with in the pace. Slow the trot almost to walk and then move forward and speed up then slow down in all paces.
3. School in squares not circles
4. Do 10 metre loops in canter along the long side
Went out on Saturday morning and got 71.8% in BD prelim 19. So it worked ��
 
So I tried tonight to sharpen Jack up - oh my lord did we have a strop!

I asked for him to move forward and he didn't, so I took my leg off and tapped with the stick - we lurched into a very panicked trot. I kept going, concentrated on keeping my leg away from him and eventually it worked. He tanked across the school with his neck up in the air for about 20 minutes, with me trying to ignore this and ride him through transitions as normal. Then it suddenly clicked! It was fab. We even managed some medium trot strides which we had been struggling with. I think because he was sharper, his bum was more underneath him and we had the impulsion.

But my legs are killing me now, it's so hard to keep legs away from his side when I've been riding with them on! And definitely noticed that my hips were looser than before so they are aching a bit now!!x
 
As above i've really been working on opening my hips up & really sitting on my arse & working from my seat & by god does it make a difference.

sometimes we still get moments of breaking in canter because I'm not consistently asking her so she gets a kick then shoots off pissed off but she only has 1 of theses in a session if she has 1 so its all good & our test last weekend was the best score we have ever got so must be working :)

definitely agree it helps massively with medium strides! only problem is I now can't sit them :D
 
kassieg said:
As above i've really been working on opening my hips up & really sitting on my arse & working from my seat & by god does it make a difference.

sometimes we still get moments of breaking in canter because I'm not consistently asking her so she gets a kick then shoots off pissed off but she only has 1 of theses in a session if she has 1 so its all good & our test last weekend was the best score we have ever got so must be working :)

definitely agree it helps massively with medium strides! only problem is I now can't sit them :D
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God I haven't tried to sit them yet, I'm not looking forward to that!!
 
kassieg said:
As above i've really been working on opening my hips up & really sitting on my arse & working from my seat & by god does it make a difference.

sometimes we still get moments of breaking in canter because I'm not consistently asking her so she gets a kick then shoots off pissed off but she only has 1 of theses in a session if she has 1 so its all good & our test last weekend was the best score we have ever got so must be working :)

definitely agree it helps massively with medium strides! only problem is I now can't sit them :D
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I have been working on this same thing just this week- as we really struggle out at competitions with impulsion, I need to get him much sharper and reactive - today my hip flexors are killing me, I thought from the gym on Tuesday but it's now clicked that I have also been riding very differently this last week so I think they have had a bit of a shock!

It is so easy to get stuck into squeezing him along when actually he needs to be carrying me! Anyway we didn't get one comment on impulsion for our tests on Saturday and posted our best score of 69% so it's going on the right direction! :)
 
Lauren_abigail said:
But my legs are killing me now, it's so hard to keep legs away from his side when I've been riding with them on! And definitely noticed that my hips were looser than before so they are aching a bit now!!x
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Great news that it's working, but remember that you're not trying to keep your legs 'off' his sides - just relaxed hanging down against his sides, a slight contact but no pressure applied, IYSWIM? It should feel like less effort than applying leg!

If you have a hot/sharp horse, or a lazy one who's having a silly day, taking your leg off completely means you get a massive overreaction when you put your leg on to ask for something.
 
smja said:
Great news that it's working, but remember that you're not trying to keep your legs 'off' his sides - just relaxed hanging down against his sides, a slight contact but no pressure applied, IYSWIM? It should feel like less effort than applying leg!

If you have a hot/sharp horse, or a lazy one who's having a silly day, taking your leg off completely means you get a massive overreaction when you put your leg on to ask for something.
Click to expand...

Yes I have been sort of draping them by his sides (think wet noodle!)

And I'm pleased to say it has obviously had a positive effect - went out and did a prelim test last night, came first with a mark of 68.7% (an improvement on the last time we did this test at 66.4%) and a much more pleasant ride with next to no nagging!

Thanks for all of your advice :)
 
Kati*89 said:
I have been working on this same thing just this week- as we really struggle out at competitions with impulsion, I need to get him much sharper and reactive - today my hip flexors are killing me, I thought from the gym on Tuesday but it's now clicked that I have also been riding very differently this last week so I think they have had a bit of a shock!

It is so easy to get stuck into squeezing him along when actually he needs to be carrying me! Anyway we didn't get one comment on impulsion for our tests on Saturday and posted our best score of 69% so it's going on the right direction! :)
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That's fab news, well done!!
 
Lauren_abigail said:
Yes I have been sort of draping them by his sides (think wet noodle!)

And I'm pleased to say it has obviously had a positive effect - went out and did a prelim test last night, came first with a mark of 68.7% (an improvement on the last time we did this test at 66.4%) and a much more pleasant ride with next to no nagging!

Thanks for all of your advice :)
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Congratulations! :)
 
PoppyAnderson said:
It's taken me flippin long enough for the penny to drop on how to achieve this but I've got there eventually with my lazy pony, who now goes off a whisper. I've basically had to be super disciplined with myself. Absolutely no nagging or reminders for the horse. They go off the leg first time every time. If this doesn't happen, it's a split second later that they get a pony club kick and / or a sharp slap. And you have to be strict with yourself to keep your legs off. When you apply an aid, the horse should do something. It doesn't matter if it gets it wrong eg, breaks into canter when you ask for trot but it must react.
Click to expand...

This is exactly how I am working on the same thing at the moment. Having great results. Amazing how he can do it so easily when there are jumps in the picture....
 
someone mentions mary wanless , when I read her book years ago I thought it too complicated, making something straightforward into like going through a maze blindfolded, then I saw her on youtube saying how she used to hit a horse on the neck slapping it cowboy style with the buckle end of the reins to make it sharp, and I thought, how pathetic, this is a personal viewpoint, but I just think there are so many trainers today that seem to have no real understanding of first what is going on between the horse and rider, and even less idea about how to train a horse!

to kick hard in the ribs hurts! try kicking yourself first then decide if its the way you really want to treat an innocent horse, because that`s what they are.

if they aren't going forward enough its probably because the rider is blocking the horse, and the horse has not yet reached the necessary physical ability through a combination of fitness and development to offer anything more, and it will show this, being a sensible creature by backing off, so here is the problem, this is the moment to back off and rethink the training strategy, I`ve learned this myself because I listened to the horses, they `told` me and i started to ride within the limits of their capability at that time, and used the school movements and general fitness to improve, I rode very gently, undemandingly using soft leg and weight aids, and slowly but surely they transformed from sluggish to dynamic powerful movers with good extentions and light front ends,

some French bloke I think, general L`hotte said `put on bedroom slippers` to train horses, it describes the feeling well, like taking a step back or going in the opposite direction to the kick em in the ribs brigade.
 
Stop 'flapping', as you said.

Take your leg completely off him, then when you feel him drop down and stop moving forward, put your leg on firmly and leg off again. It won't take him long to be forward off your leg. It will take a while for him to be consistently forward.

I also leave the front end alone until I have the forward movement. Once they have the power from behind they are ore likely to work up and into the contact, rather than you saying go and then being pulled back for the contact.
 
I do think a lot of so called lazy horse are just dragging themselves along on the forehand, and lots of transitions and especially rein back to walk (or later trot) does a couple of things at the same time - encourages and strengthens the use of the hind leg, and teaches response to the leg while the horse is balanced enough to be able to do it.
Has worked wonders with mine, he has started taking me rather than having to be ridden every step. Walk/halt/walk/halt/rein back/walk etc etc then 10 strides of walk followed by 10 of trot etc or even less with the occasional halt or half halt in the scheme. Eventually when he can go from halt to trot he is ready for rein back to trot and then he is getting engaged.
 
agree with leave the front end alone, well that`s what I do.

I also find transitions at walk to trot and back, and halt to walk and later trot and rein back very good, it gets them to listen, it seems to give them something to think about, and listen for, done carefully.
 
PoppyAnderson said:
It's taken me flippin long enough for the penny to drop on how to achieve this but I've got there eventually with my lazy pony, who now goes off a whisper. I've basically had to be super disciplined with myself. Absolutely no nagging or reminders for the horse. They go off the leg first time every time. If this doesn't happen, it's a split second later that they get a pony club kick and / or a sharp slap. And you have to be strict with yourself to keep your legs off. When you apply an aid, the horse should do something. It doesn't matter if it gets it wrong eg, breaks into canter when you ask for trot but it must react.
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100% this^^^^^^^

Too many people nag their horse with no result. Use your head, thought, as well as physical leg.

EXPECT A RESPONSE EVERY TIME!

I once had two young riders ride my horse, one got off him, out of breath and declaring he was hard work, the other grinning from ear to ear as he easily performed shoulder in, Renvers, Teavers and half passes.

The difference, one rode with just legs the other with his mind and expected to get a response with each leg aid.
 
There is a difference between the horse who ignores your leg or responds grudgingly and the one who responds but loses impulsion a few strides later. Mine was the latter - he wasn't behind the leg but it was really difficult not to ask again after he had "died" in a few strides. The key to getting him to maintain the pace was balance and engagement - not the same as reinforcing your leg aid by whichever means you find suits you best.
 
JillA said:
There is a difference between the horse who ignores your leg or responds grudgingly and the one who responds but loses impulsion a few strides later. Mine was the latter - he wasn't behind the leg but it was really difficult not to ask again after he had "died" in a few strides. The key to getting him to maintain the pace was balance and engagement - not the same as reinforcing your leg aid by whichever means you find suits you best.
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The moment he starts to 'die' is when you should use an aid to get back what you wanted.

It's the delay in doing this that also causes horses to have to be ridden with more leg all the time.

Those that ignore the leg are either, green and don't yet understand what you want or have been over ridden so have no idea what the rider truly wants.

As you say engagement was the answer, however it's the correct use of your leg/whip/Spurs that asks for the engagement.
 
what I`m saying is that if the horse doesn't understand, we know there are better ways to show it what is being asked for.

op`s horse was sharper before, now its died a bit, discovering the cause whether its rider related or the horse, and then setting about curing the problem through the training, and helping to build the relationship based on understanding what is being asked for, and rewarding the horse when this happens.

learning to use the legs correctly and consistantly, at the right moment is the secret, the leg should hang in the right place to whisper to the horse in subtle touches and encourage it forward at all times.

if you put the boot in to kick the horse, your seat becomes powerless, it is the use of the legs and the seat together that moves the horse forward and the soft hands that allow the power to come through. that`s what I do anyway.
 
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