wanting to change feed, but what to??

F

FaldingwoodLivery

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 April 2010
Messages
350
Visit site
my tb came to me about 4 months ago in really poor condition. hes slowly getting better but i'm still not entirely happy with his weight. his ribs are still slightly visible and he still has zero topline. i know the topline issue is not going to resolve itself quickly and needs lots of work and time to build up, but i really would like to see more weight on him especially coming into winter. hes 17hh 18yo, hes very laid back so dont need to worry about fizz, infact a bit of fizz would be nice!

hes currently on a medium sized scoop of conditioning cubes, a stubbs scoop of molllassed chaff, half a stubbs scoop of sugar beet with a few carrots thrown in and joint supp twice a day. hes out 8am - 4pm and i cram as miuch hay as i can in him while hes in. hes also rugged up to the eyeballs

i was considering changing to calm and condition. cant rememebr the make of it but you soak it.... anyone know?? was looking at the back of the bag in the feed shop the other day and all it said to add was chop? If i added veteran mix too would this be too much for him? was just thinking that the veteran mix probably has more vit and minerals in, and what about the sugar beet, im assuming id just stop feeding it as the calm and consiton is beet based i think??

anyone got any other ideas? im not used to feeding poor horses, my others either have a bit of chop and a few carrots just because they dont like not being fed whent he others do or have nothing at all, im usually fighting the fat not wishing for it!
 
Get rid of the molassed chaff and replace it with some chop that actually has some goodness in it, like AlfaA or even Alfa Oil. They are both conditioning low energy feeds. Molassed chaff is just sugar coated chopped straw. Change the sugar beet to alfa beet, that will also increase the feed value.

Make sure his teeth are in good condition so he is able to properly chew the feed you are giving him.

Make sure he has seed hay (or haylage) rather than meadow hay, it also has a higher feed value.
 
BigRed said:
Get rid of the molassed chaff and replace it with some chop that actually has some goodness in it, like AlfaA or even Alfa Oil. They are both conditioning low energy feeds. Molassed chaff is just sugar coated chopped straw. Change the sugar beet to alfa beet, that will also increase the feed value.
Click to expand...

I agree about the chaff, but please note that Alfa Beet is actually LOWER in calories than normal sugar beet or Speedibeet. It is, however, higher in protein than plain beet, but if the OP changes to Alfa A Oil there will be plenty of protein in that anyway.
 
kayleighn said:
i was considering changing to calm and condition. cant rememebr the make of it but you soak it.... anyone know?? was looking at the back of the bag in the feed shop the other day and all it said to add was chop? If i added veteran mix too would this be too much for him? was just thinking that the veteran mix probably has more vit and minerals in
Click to expand...

Calm & Condition is fully supplemented with vit/mins so no need to feed veteran mix as well. As well as changing the chaff and feeding haylage, as suggested above, you could also think about introducing a probiotic to ensure the gut bacteria is healthy so your horse can make the most of the food he gets. Whether you stick to the conditioning cubes or change to Calm & Condition, I would suggest you ring the relevant manufacturer to get advice on the correct quantities to feed him.
 
thanks, he had his teeth checked as soon as i got him and they were fine.

the liverys on my yard have pure chopped alfalfa thats the same as alfaA right? will swap him over.

i feed meadow hay but will struggle to change that as i have 500 bales to use up first.

has anyone got any thoughts on the conditioning cubes vs veteran mix? just not sure which he would be better on
 
Alfa A Oil is significantly higher in calories than normal alfalfa (due to the oil content) - if you decide to feed plain alfalfa then consider adding an additional source of oil such as micronised linseed.

As for conditioning cubes versus veteran mix, it does depend on the individual brands, but as a general rule veteran mixes tend to be a little lower in calories than conditioning cubes. You can check on the manufacturer's websites - look for the digestible energy value. Most conditioning cubes/mixes are in the region of 12 - 13.5 MJDE/kg, whereas veteran feeds tend to be in the region of 11 - 12 MJDE/kg.
 
Have you thought about using a balancer like Blue Chip. My friends arab x welsh has always been a poor doer but since putting her on blue chip about 2 years ago she looks the best shes ever looked (shes 16 now). He coat is shiny, shes happy and her weight is really good, if anything abit on the podgy side!

Haha, just saw your post under your sig. If you look back on my old posts I do reccommend blue chip alot but thats because I know it works and have used it on several diff horses in the past. I def dont work for them!!!
 
Linseed is also really good. It's helps weight gain and adds lots of shine to the coat. Oil is another good thing to feed for weight gain.

I have a poor doer TB who I tried on loads of feed combinations but she didn't gain much weight. However we have now got the perfect feed combination for her and she has put on a lot of weight and her topline is finally improving.

We feed her the below 2 times a day:
1 scoop of alfa a oil
3/4 scoop of topspec cool condition cubes
5 handfuls of topspec balancer
3 handfulls of linseed
a large dollop of oil
1 soaked scoop of warmed speedibeet
1 handful of nettles
1 handful of mint
She gets ad lib haylage over night and good quality grazinng during the day.

I'd reccomend phoning feed companies for advise. You can get samples of things to see if your horse likes them/if they make a difference. I'd also reccomend feeding a high fibre and oil and low sugar and starch diet. That way your horse will have lots of fibre in his gut to keep him warm (one of the ways horses keep warm is by fermenting fibre in their gut), thus he will maintain weight better.

Hope that helps :)
 
TGM said:
Alfa A Oil is significantly higher in calories than normal alfalfa (due to the oil content) - if you decide to feed plain alfalfa then consider adding an additional source of oil such as micronised linseed.

As for conditioning cubes versus veteran mix, it does depend on the individual brands, but as a general rule veteran mixes tend to be a little lower in calories than conditioning cubes. You can check on the manufacturer's websites - look for the digestible energy value. Most conditioning cubes/mixes are in the region of 12 - 13.5 MJDE/kg, whereas veteran feeds tend to be in the region of 11 - 12 MJDE/kg.
Click to expand...

have just been looking at oil to add, would soya oil be ok?

also just checked the feed analysis of the brand i normally use ( local supplier that i normally buy in bulk from). Im a little shocked and feel a bit ashamed that i havent checked this before.

conditioning cubes
protein 12.5%
oil 3.5%
fibre 13%
ash 7.5%
moisture 14%
digestible energy 9.5MJ/kg

veteran mix
protein 13.6%
oil 4.9%
fibre 14.5%
ash 9.2%
moisture 14%
digestable energy 9.5MJ/kg

so actually the veteran mix seems as though it would be better for him as more protein oil and fibre. And are those energy levels pretty low compared to other brands??
 
ok so have been doing lots of internet research and think i have decided on the folowing,

swapping my normal conditioning cubes to dodson and horrell build up conditoning cubes which are a lot higher in digestable energy

swapping the mollassed chaff to alfalfa

feeding soya oil

stick with my normal speedibeet

willl see how he goes on that and then consider blue chip balancer if things arent improving

how does that sound to everyone?
 
Sounds sensible to me! The only thing you may find with the Build Up is that because it is barley-based some horses react to the barley and come out in skin lumps - however, if the previous feed you were using contains barley then he should be fine.

I must say I am quite shocked that your original conditioning cubes were so low in calories - they are no more calorific than normal horse and pony cubes! I take it this was a local 'own brand', but it does show the wisdom of checking feed labels!
 
Yep! I'm shocked too, really should know better, and they weren't that much cheaper either, I'm just used to using them for other stuff that I didn't think any different, I've just been to feed store, ended up going for baileys conditioning cubes instead of build up as they have even higher levels of digestible energy, and no barley :-). Have just had a weighing session in the feed room too, baileys reccommended 3.8kg of concentrates per day, so I've decided on 1kg cubes, 400g alfalfa and 500g kwikbeet. Twice a day, does that sound ok? Sorry to keep asking questions but I've never had anything so complicated to feed!
 
I use Dodson & Horrell Suregrow as a balancer. Far cheaper than TopSpec or Blue Chip and my horse is 10. Another great feed for condition is micronised linseed from Charnwood, not the lozenges though as these don't have much nutritional value.

Allen & Page Fast Fibre is an excellent source of fibre, soaked overnight it makes a large bowl of feed. It's similar to Calm & Condition (same manufacturer).
 
i rate baileys No4 as a great conditioning cube
and Baileys Outshine as a high oil high calorie suppliment is fantastic for weight gain (but can send some a bit chicken oriental)
Alfalfa as a chaff
and calm and condition or veteran vitality as a mash type thing (both allan and page)

other than that - ad lib hay or haylege

NB = 9tails - fast fibre is a low cal bulker - its fab - i use it on my fatty! but i'd not use it on a horse who needs condition - i'd use a higher Mj/Kg feed such as the calm and condition or veteran vitality ;)

ETA - i *think* you don't include the alfalfa/chaff as a concentrate in terms of weight.... i could be wrong though
 
Last edited:
kayleighn said:
Hmmm may have to go back to the weighing scales then, so do I include sugar beet in the concentrates weight and just not include the alfalfa?? My brain is frazzled!
Click to expand...

ooh now you're asking lol! i've always been led to believe that you include the dry matter of any beet - and not the chaff... but then again that may be old school now :o

hopefully another more informed person will reply for you :o
 
posie_honey said:
ooh now you're asking lol! i've always been led to believe that you include the dry matter of any beet - and not the chaff... but then again that may be old school now :o

hopefully another more informed person will reply for you :o
Click to expand...

Ohh see I was also weighing the sugar beet after it was soaked.....maybe it should be weighed before! I'm so confused!!! Please help!!!!
 
kayleighn said:
Ohh see I was also weighing the sugar beet after it was soaked.....maybe it should be weighed before! I'm so confused!!! Please help!!!!
Click to expand...

ok- i'd hate to give you the wrong advice - but try ringing the baileys helpline if you're planning on feeding their conditioning cubes - they'll prob be able to tell you if they consider chaff and beet as extra or not - they are really helpful - as are the allen and page advice people :)
 
Just spoke to baileys, they were fab and very helpful. The weight of concentrates advised to feed is purely made up from mix, cubes etc. Any chaff and sugar beet is included in your forage.
 
kayleighn said:
ok so have been doing lots of internet research and think i have decided on the folowing,

swapping my normal conditioning cubes to dodson and horrell build up conditoning cubes which are a lot higher in digestable energy

swapping the mollassed chaff to alfalfa

feeding soya oil

stick with my normal speedibeet

willl see how he goes on that and then consider blue chip balancer if things arent improving

how does that sound to everyone?
Click to expand...

That sounds similar to what Charisma has - she is full tb and prone to losing weight in the Winter. She is on 1 1/2 scoops of Baileys #4, large scoop Alpha A, soya oil, and scoop sugar beet. Plus haylage.

I want to try splitting it into three feeds a day - have you thought about doing this? They can digest all you give them much better this way
 
What an interesting thread, I'm in a similar situation, can we have an update on how you get on with the new diet? I know I'd be interested! I'm still pondering what to do for the best for my skinnymilink.
 
personally I wouldnt change anything, except to add 1 more feed into the day. Are you feeding twice a day? then feed 3 times, this will raise the bucket feed by 50% and get lots of extra calories,protein mins and vits into the horse.
 
sarahann1 said:
What an interesting thread, I'm in a similar situation, can we have an update on how you get on with the new diet? I know I'd be interested! I'm still pondering what to do for the best for my skinnymilink.
Click to expand...

Will keep you updated, the helpful lady at baileys promised I'd start to see a difference by feeding what they reccomended and if I didn't to ring back and they could plan something else for me to try. Will try to take some before pics tomorrow and post them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top