Warmblood - behaviour of a young horse is it normal?

[grayv]

Bought a Belgian WB a few months back, she's fab to hack out and is ok in school. However when she gets excited or hasnt been ridden for a few days, she kind of hops on the spot and jumps off the floor with all 4 feet, doesnt accelerate so can be sat to, I just wnated to know, do you think this is normal behaviour of a 5 year old, when being asked in the school. or is it warmblood thing.......use to riding youngsters at a riding school and not come across this before......Some days she can be a dream, transiiton to canter perfect, then leave her for two days and she will do this silly hop thing, i can tell from the minute we enter the school that she will do it at some point as she is not really listening to me.... thought about lunging so she can get all this tension out before we ride.... what do you think? any ideas?

 

[Glayva]

My warmblood had a habit of randomly doing this. He would be alright, and maybe get a bit excited, but rather than take off or get excited like a normal horse, he would sit back and then leap off the ground, almost in slow motion!! Then land and not really do anything else.

He did it the other day actually, not done it in ages. Was eating grass and was getting quite keen about finding the next nice grassy bit, and then he randomly leaped off the ground (as if a 5ft fence was under him!!) landed and then continued eating the grass.

The are strange lol

 

[TarrSteps]

She's young and athletic. The fact that all she does is the occasional leap in the air is probably a sign she's quite a nice person, rather than the opposite. Every horse has a 'thing' it does when the tension gets too great and it would seem this is hers. If every young horse you've ridden has behaved impeccably at all types, no matter how stressed or fresh, you have been very lucky indeed!

Review her management - feed, turn out, work schedule, physical and mental health - and if all seems well and the incidents can be easily explained - too little work, very inclement weather etc - then it's simply a case of training. If you feel there is room for change in the management - a feed change, more turn out, even a different box - then make the change and see if you get an improvement.

It is not 'normal' for horses to be activity adversarial - if it were, we'd all be dead - but it is normal for any well bred young horse to need an outlet for its energy.

I think what sometimes confuses people new to sport horses, is what they perceive to be their 'extreme' reactions when in fact, they are simply being the athletic horses they are bred to be. We have made them so they are capable of jumping huge heights and producing spectacular movements - we can't be too surprised when they do!

 

[soulfull]

Echo tarrsteps. They all have their 'special thing' or 'party trick'.

 

[Tonks]

This is most certainly 'normal', providing of course that there are no physical problems - but doesn't sound like it.

I had a very cheeky little pony [for sale] that did this a few times - across the diaganol towards the stables - where we'd be in [a rather hurried] working trot and we suddenly discovered we didn't have any feet on the ground! However, although its 'normal' it's not obedient and it was something that I wanted to get to the bottom of and eliminate.

Providing that it was not a one-off where she was spooked or a little fresh, this sort of thing can be the first sign that your horse is begining to lack the obedience you want. Then a few more weeks down the line, she may give a little napp out the gate, then a few more weeks after that, she refuses to load, etc, etc. You often find that obedience issues/dominance (not in a natural horsemanship way) begin to emerge with new owners after 2 weeks and then continue to esclate if not dealt with.

To me, the feild is where they leap about and get rid of excess energy - ground work, lungeing and ridden work is not for this purpose. Ground work, lungeing work and ridden work is where you require obedience, especially if she is a big WB type that may like to throw her weight about.

In my opinion, lungeing has two purposes: exercise and schooling. Leaping about is not part of this. You require obedience on the lunge just the same as you would obedeince whilst being ridden.

Personally, I would review all of your contact with her to work out just how much control/submission you've really got. I think that she's dictating to you somewhat. This would include things like: walking her to and from the stable/field - are you really 'leading' her or is she leading you? Lungeing work - have you really got 'control' from the moment you open the arena gate or are you slightly wary that she's going to buck/spin/rear, etc (and it sounds as if you are.) Are you sometimes wary when you're on board, that she's going to do something 'naughty'. Or, do you feel that you have pretty much 100% control over those feet? Again, she's dictating the outcome to some extent, in my opinion, if you don't feel you have 100% control over those feet. Of course, horses do sometimes spook and are sometimes fresh but this should not be routine or habitual.

If you do feel that she's got some say in how things turn out, then there is the potential for this behaviour to escalate - perhaps however, she's a fairly submissive type and it won't progress beyond this, though. In this case, you may not have too much to worry about. But, even the most submissive type in the feild with their horsey social group can be totally dominant over it's human handler if allowed.

If she were mine, however, I would want to take it back a bit to include in-hand work, where you are gaining absolute control over those feet. This works even when they 'appear' a bit fresh and they soon settle and become more submissive and willing to work.

I would not lunge until you feel you have better control in the in-hand work as lungeing does not always afford much control over a horse that is less than obedient and as such, if she does spin/leap etc, not being able to control this and then 'allowing' this simply reinforces this behaviour.

In-hand work can prove effective in less than 10 minutes where you can then get on board once she's obedient and submissive and you have control. Or, you can turn it into a schooling session itself and even work on shoulder-in, etc.

My ISH horse can get a bit 'fresh' when not worked for a couple of days and it would be easy to put this down to being fresh. However, in my opinion as he's top dog in the field, this break allows him to regain all of his confidence where he feels he can then start to dictate his work with me. A 10 minute session of in-hand work at the start of the session soon re-starts our relationship, where I then know I'm not going to get 20 minutes of silly ******s.

Good luck and I may be way off the mark but that's my gut feeling.

 

[fairyclare]

My warmblood mare still does this - aged 20!!

 

[RCP Equestrian]

Its a young warmblood thing! Mine is the same when he's fresh, comes out like a ticking time bomb but when he's in constant work or has had his "frisky five mins" he works lovely and is safe as houses they all have their little quirks and as long as its not pain related, which in your case it isn't, I think its just a little side of her you have gotta love!

 

[Auslander]

It's my 15 year olds way of expressing freshness - he's not warmblood, but he's been a dressage horse all his life, so is programmed with bounce, rather than blast. I don't approve of it when he's supposed to be working (pretty much agree word for word with Tonks) but I know he'll do it if he's feeling particularly fresh. I make sure he is turned out before I ride him, so that he can express himself out in the field on his own time. He's a monkey, so he still throws in the odd leap just to check that I'm concentrating...

 

[luce1]

haha my 19 year old Warmblood does the same thing!! Sometimes just gets too excited and does these funny leaps off all 4s!!!
He did it out hacking the other day and nearly had me off! LOL! he doesnt do it very often, just when he gets excited!!

 

[Auslander]

haha my 19 year old Warmblood does the same thing!! Sometimes just gets too excited and does these funny leaps off all 4s!!!
He did it out hacking the other day and nearly had me off! LOL! he doesnt do it very often, just when he gets excited!!

Would he like to join the senile delinquents club?
Alf doesn't do it often, and I get plenty of warning - he starts curling himself up, cantering on the spot, and squealing under his breath - then when he's worked up a good head of steam, the airs above the ground start. I will fall off one day purely through being completely weak with laughter!

 

[grayv]

Thanks for your replies…. They made me smile… , it’s really helpful….and I like her again now .
When you say working in-hand, what do you mean, are there certain exercises that I could do?. In terms of leading she walks behind me on the lead rope, with her head low, its abit like walking a dog!!. She isn’t at all pushy…. I would say she’s quite well behaved on the ground, can be tied up and will just stand with her head low, asleep or just staring into space….
I have to go up the road to the ménage, once in there I have to tie her up so I can set trotting poles out etc and she will have a little nose about but is fine with that. To be honest she really isn’t highly strung in fact on the ground she is quite docile.
Even schooling when she doesn’t do this hopping thing she can be really laid back, and really co-operative, last week I did some trotting poles and she was going over them lovely, lovely canter work I was really pleased with her …. then leave her a couple of days, and she will do this hop thing, its not when I get on it will be about ten minutes into the lesson, I may have trotted round a few times then there it is… she does this hop. What I want to know is how do I tell her that its wrong…. Or how do I make her understand that I don’t want her doing it?. What I have done so far is as soon as I feel those front feet come off the ground I raise my right hand and turn her in a circle to the right ( her most supple side) and hold her there, but not sure she’s getting it!!..or I am doing something wrong!!
Lunging can be really productive one day then leave a couple and again she will do the little hop and jump, I normally try to ignore it, not make much of it and not hold onto her via the lung rein…send her forward, she will then come back to trot. With side reins on and she’s fine, its like she needs to shake her self before she starts work…..but she needs to know she can’t do this with rider on her!!
Her environment, she lives out all year with free access to a hard standing area where her stable is, the door is always left open and she can come and go as she pleases, she is currently in a sacrifice paddock ( 100ft x 50ft while her field is being rested, she’s been in here since Jan, still with access to her stable…..she is on her own but has contact over the fence with other horses 2 geldings and 1 miniture) , she will run round having a mad 10mins bucking rearing and plunging, especially with the little miniature.. I ride about 4 times a week, Friday (school) Sat (school and small hack) Sunday ( hack) Wed (hack or school). She is on ad-lib haylage, and only has easy rider (just grass, no alfalfa, etc) with a few carrots and an apple of a morning with warm water mixed in.

Thanks for the advice

 

[CrazyMare]

My 5 year old Warmblood does it, coupled with a squeal!! I know when the rein goes light, her neck goes 'big' and she tries to bury her chin in her ches somewhere that a big leap is coming next!!! She is genuine though, as she stays straight and underneath you, its just her way of saying its all getting far too exciting!

Breed them to do 'big stuff' and sometimes they do it when it takes their fancy, not yours!

 

[rachyblue]

I had a bit of a giggle reading this - reassures me that mine is also that warmblood kind of "special".

I'm not riding yet, but my 3 year old does the same thing if he's particularly excited, I usually get a warning in that he squeals first which gives me chance to get out of the way! He is a lazy bum the rest of the time, but sometimes life is just too exciting, especially if there is snow to snort at...

He once literally stood there dithering about which direction to explode in before he finally decided... love him to bits tho

 

[Boysy]

Does that mean my New Forest is really a young Warmblood under his fluff then as he does the same thing when he can't contain himself any longer, his 'thing' is then followed by extreme self rolkur in collected mincing trot steps down the side of the school then if this doesn't work, he has a hooley big fly buck just to make his point.......... he's nearly 9 and should know better but has the education of a 5yr old due to so much time off since i've had him...........

 

[grayv]

This is most certainly 'normal', providing of course that there are no physical problems - but doesn't sound like it.

I had a very cheeky little pony [for sale] that did this a few times - across the diaganol towards the stables - where we'd be in [a rather hurried] working trot and we suddenly discovered we didn't have any feet on the ground! However, although its 'normal' it's not obedient and it was something that I wanted to get to the bottom of and eliminate.

Providing that it was not a one-off where she was spooked or a little fresh, this sort of thing can be the first sign that your horse is begining to lack the obedience you want. Then a few more weeks down the line, she may give a little napp out the gate, then a few more weeks after that, she refuses to load, etc, etc. You often find that obedience issues/dominance (not in a natural horsemanship way) begin to emerge with new owners after 2 weeks and then continue to esclate if not dealt with.

To me, the feild is where they leap about and get rid of excess energy - ground work, lungeing and ridden work is not for this purpose. Ground work, lungeing work and ridden work is where you require obedience, especially if she is a big WB type that may like to throw her weight about.

In my opinion, lungeing has two purposes: exercise and schooling. Leaping about is not part of this. You require obedience on the lunge just the same as you would obedeince whilst being ridden.

Personally, I would review all of your contact with her to work out just how much control/submission you've really got. I think that she's dictating to you somewhat. This would include things like: walking her to and from the stable/field - are you really 'leading' her or is she leading you? Lungeing work - have you really got 'control' from the moment you open the arena gate or are you slightly wary that she's going to buck/spin/rear, etc (and it sounds as if you are.) Are you sometimes wary when you're on board, that she's going to do something 'naughty'. Or, do you feel that you have pretty much 100% control over those feet? Again, she's dictating the outcome to some extent, in my opinion, if you don't feel you have 100% control over those feet. Of course, horses do sometimes spook and are sometimes fresh but this should not be routine or habitual.

If you do feel that she's got some say in how things turn out, then there is the potential for this behaviour to escalate - perhaps however, she's a fairly submissive type and it won't progress beyond this, though. In this case, you may not have too much to worry about. But, even the most submissive type in the feild with their horsey social group can be totally dominant over it's human handler if allowed.

If she were mine, however, I would want to take it back a bit to include in-hand work, where you are gaining absolute control over those feet. This works even when they 'appear' a bit fresh and they soon settle and become more submissive and willing to work.

I would not lunge until you feel you have better control in the in-hand work as lungeing does not always afford much control over a horse that is less than obedient and as such, if she does spin/leap etc, not being able to control this and then 'allowing' this simply reinforces this behaviour.

In-hand work can prove effective in less than 10 minutes where you can then get on board once she's obedient and submissive and you have control. Or, you can turn it into a schooling session itself and even work on shoulder-in, etc.

My ISH horse can get a bit 'fresh' when not worked for a couple of days and it would be easy to put this down to being fresh. However, in my opinion as he's top dog in the field, this break allows him to regain all of his confidence where he feels he can then start to dictate his work with me. A 10 minute session of in-hand work at the start of the session soon re-starts our relationship, where I then know I'm not going to get 20 minutes of silly ******s.

Good luck and I may be way off the mark but that's my gut feeling.

do you have any tips for type of exercises you talk about in-hand? thanks

 

[Pinkvboots]

My warmblood mare is 13 this year and sometimes in the school when you ask for trot she will go straight into canter and its a silly bouncy going no where canter, it is freshness but its naughty so I stop and go back to walk if you just let her trot she gets worse and will continue to do it, I then do small circles in trot until she behaves, its a case of you saying no you do what I say not what you want.

 

[Moomin1]

My girl is a WB type and she does exactly this. She almost does a mini capriole on the spot but then doesn't do anything afterwards. She sometimes does it whilst being led too! She's 12 this year.

 

[Tonks]

do you have any tips for type of exercises you talk about in-hand? thanks

Sorry just read it again....and didn't realise you commented again.

Ground work can be a bit difficult to explain in a forum setting as it much easier to explain via demonstration.........but here goes.

Groundwork for me concentrates on the basics of making sure the horse is obedient to the basics of 'go', 'stop', 'back' through the use of pressure/release from the bridle with you standing along side him, facing him to begin with. You would also use the added 'support' (not for whipping/punishment) of the long whip to reinforce some movements. So, this could be a tap on the shoulder to reinforce the 'back'. Your whip then become a secondary reinforcer and the horse should then obey cues using the whip.

Then you could move onto turn of the forequarters and turn of the hindquarters once your horse is obedient to go/stop/back.

If I go straight into lungeing my ISH he can get a little disobedient where he may not 'go' forward correctly, choosing to have a buck. He can then start falling in on the lunge and before I know it, he's dictating the nature of the work drifting back to the stable on the lunge.

If I want to lunge or I feel that he's a bit sharp that day, I take him into into the school and using a lunge line with a long whip [to support my arm] and make him walk on the outer track 'stopping', 'going' and 'yeilding' his shoulders with me about 12ft away. Once obedient, I can then start lungeing from this position. It makes the world of different to him.

You do have to be quick with your signals however with effective and clear use of pressure/release to reward the behaviour you want. And, you have to be quick with your use of the long whip so that it becomes another aid and support to your cues. It can get quite difficult as the horse is quite a way from you (you wouldn't start groundwork with this distance but only when more experience or confident to do so), so you do have know how much pressure to use that will get the behaviour you want, too.

I'm not sure that helps. There may be some videos on Youtube re groundwork with horses that might help.

I suppose the basis is that the horse should obediently go, stop, back, turn and yeild quartes when you ask with you on the ground next to him.

 

[Caol Ila]

My 19-year old Shire-TB cross does the same thing -- nose on chest, cantering and bouncing in place -- when she gets wound up about something. Or passage. If only I could get the passage on command....

Funniest recent moment was when I was out with a couple fellow liveries and we went for a canter. My horse can canter sensibly in a group, but only when she does it regularly, and we are not doing it regularly so she is not very sensible. So horse wanted to just take off and buck in excitement, but knew I had a view on such behaviour. So she went uber-collected instead. All I felt was a lot of up and down, not a lot of forward, and we were pretty much sideways. Neck was up and arched. I wasn't doing much, just sitting there thinking "WTF" but preferred this to bucking and galloping. When we stopped, I asked one of the people I was riding with, "What on earth was she doing?" Fellow livery said it looked like super-elevated canter half-pass.