Warmbloods and soundness

Moggy said:
Im just starting to look for a 4-6 yo to take over competing from my veteran at dressage ..... the dilema i have is i want to be competative to a reasonable level which points to a warmblood but then you hear all of the lameness problems people have.
Are the horror stories so numerous because people naturally post their issues or because of the large number of poor quality WBs sent to uk ? Have people had more success going to Holland/ germany to buy?

Please share your WB stories... good and bad
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It is quite correct there are dealers who import rubbish but you get what you pay for. Buying a horse from a breeder that has pink papers and has done the Futurity(where it has been vetted). buying a horse that is graded by a studbook like Hannoverians is a reliable guide. Or visit my website.
 
sywell said:
It is quite correct there are dealers who import rubbish but you get what you pay for. Buying a horse from a breeder that has pink papers and has done the Futurity(where it has been vetted). buying a horse that is graded by a studbook like Hannoverians is a reliable guide. Or visit my website.
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All three of my purchased warmbloods had terrific papers and for their age and level of training were expensive horses. For different reasons, none of them could do the job they were bought to do and two were dead by ten years old. My friend's elite mare, Hannoverian lines British Warmblood which cost over thirty grand has spavins at eleven when she's done almost nothing in her life. I do think that there are serious issues with breeding for movement to the exclusion of longevity.

I doubt if the less well bred warmbloods actually have the same level of physical/mental issues, and I expect they make good all rounders, a bit like good IDx, the original 'Warmblood'.
 
We've never had a WB with a soundness problem yet.

Maybe we've always chosen well? Or maybe our management (turnout, barefoot, planned competing/fitness schedules etc) works?

The trend is for bigger movement, longer legs and less bone and that does worry me. There are several blood lines I would never ever buy because of their rep to fall apart.

My youngster is a modern leggy type but with plenty of bone and good soundness rates on both sides. He's being ridden at a (very) basic WTC currently but I want to scale it back to 1 session in the school and maybe 1/2 walk/trot hacks whilst he finishes growing. If he's ready for the age classes, he'll do them. If he's not, he won't. He's got a lovely movement but I'll let that develop at its own rate, his extensions won't disappear just because I'm not working on them!
 
nikkimariet said:
We've never had a WB with a soundness problem yet.

Maybe we've always chosen well? Or maybe our management (turnout, barefoot, planned competing/fitness schedules etc) works?
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I think you have one out of work right now with a very serious problem with ulcers?
 
It is quite funny, the reputation WBs have in the UK is the reputation TBs have in lot of regions on the continent. :D ;)
 
Ah ok, I always have had the impression TB are more "respected" in the UK. On the continent they are called "the crazy ones". ;)
 
I've got a 22yr old BWB that I bought at 10 still hackable but he has had a few problems. He had SI injury which prevented an affiliated dressage career (I suspect that might be why he was sold abroad via a dealer) and annular ligament surgery at 19. However he's sound enough to ride and looks amazing at the moment. He's been a generally great all-rounder.
 
I do think that they have problems because they are and have been bred so big the biggest competition horse I ever saw as a child and young adult was about 16.2 the great big warmbloods of today are small at that height. I do think too that with the mixed breeding often it is the worst traits that appear in the progeny. I also feel that there really is no need to breed them so big there isn't a rider alive that wouldnt look fine on a 16.2 or smaller horse. it is the old addage just because it is bigger doesnt mean it is better. Temperamentally there are a lot of huge warm bloods ridden by tiny female riders and as a result they become thugs and in some cases dangerous. A triner of problem horses once told me he only ever was asked to treat the behaviour of big warmbloods ridden by small slight women and Welsh cobs

If you can be bothered to read there is a funny story about that brother in law is from Texas and everything is big in texas he complained about everything being small here from his meals out to cars etc everything was bigger in Texas. Dad was the head pschiatrist in a lovely Cottage type hospital when he semi retired and took said brother in law around the hospital as he had asked for a tour. He very boastfully said to dad "we have much bigger better hospitals in Texas"
Dad replied "so I understand but this is a lunatic asylum"
that shut him up
 
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Sorry to be picky but I couldn't resist......

"Big warmbloods ridden by small slight women and Welsh Cobs"

Now that I want to see!

P.S. My AES registered supposedly warm blood is 18 and a little stiff behind now but has only ever had 2 small abcesses and a couple of small cuts in the 8 years I have owned her.
Hoping that doesn't jinx everything, fingers crossed.
 
Can I ask people with single horses, 'never gone wrong' , to tell us if they can whether the horse is by a elite (GP level) stallion and whether its papers have a lot of kur/preferente/prestatie in the close history? I have a theory it's the highly bred ones that have more weak ones among them.
 
My kwpn papered horse is actually an American saddle bred both his parents where ASB's imported to holland from the US .
His grand sire is a stallion called Harlem Globe trotter how my horse has stayed sound is a mystery as far as we can work it out he was pulling a carriage at two if you google the sire you will get a favour of his manic paces and biazzre standing stance .
He's 17 and field masters hunting which he loves I thought he would never stand the work but he's proved me very wrong I worked very hard to 'normalise 'is way of going and have managed to a certain extent he's as mad as a box of frogs but he's the gentlest kind horse to handle .
He's tough what makes a horse tough it's hard to but your finger on but some horse just are tough .
 
I've got a pink papered Hannoverian mare (brought as a foal) by a GP stallion (De Niro) with a dam line chock full of head stud book mates. She is big framed and big moving and at 12 years old has never been lame.

Out of all the horses I have had, mainly competition bred warmbloods, the one with the biggest soundness issues was a TB.
 
ycbm said:
Can I ask people with single horses, 'never gone wrong' , to tell us if they can whether the horse is by a elite (GP level) stallion and whether its papers have a lot of kur/preferente/prestatie in the close history? I have a theory it's the highly bred ones that have more weak ones among them.
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PM'd you
 
i disagree about too much training, circles etc, most horse don`t get enough training slow enough over a period of time, and when riding in an arena a lot of the time is going straight,well i do anyway, i find that is the time, when on a good surface, to concentrate on riding very straight and making the horse`s hind end follow the front in straight tracks, of course hacking is invaluable for its free marching forward effect.

its not just what you do its not that simple, its how you do it, and how effective slow, gentle subtle work is at allowing the horse to train itself.

i think shutting all horse gobs with a flash is ridiculous, quite honestly i find it impossible to have respect for anyone who does that.

if i wanted soundness i would not look at a warmblood, part bred arabs have it for me, tough sound and a good mind.

warmbloods are are not bred close enough to very pure breeds to benefit from hybrid vigour, they tend to come out as mongrels more so than a definite cross bred of two or three very pure breeds, they are genetically very diverse and i don`t think you can blame shortcomings on the blood of work type horses necessarily, just look at the old way of crossing shire, clydesdale and cleveland bays to produce comp horses, there was nothing wrong with their backs, they could do it all.

a lot of continental breeding is on a commercial scale and i don`t think enough thought is given to breeding horses that have the most important qualities, they are just a product.
 
Goldenstar said:
Google his granddad you will see what I mean .
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Well, yes, not quite your average warmblood!

d3c924f2195bbb051f5bbc8873da1eab--american-saddlebred-favorite-things.jpg
 
ycbm said:
Can I ask people with single horses, 'never gone wrong' , to tell us if they can whether the horse is by a elite (GP level) stallion and whether its papers have a lot of kur/preferente/prestatie in the close history? I have a theory it's the highly bred ones that have more weak ones among them.
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Can't give you the exact breeding, as he now belongs to my friend, but he is by Kelvin (http://majesticgaits.com/kelvin.htm)
out of a Notaris mare. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/notaris

Don't know if it helps your theory - he's definitely very sound!
 
ycbm said:
Can I ask people with single horses, 'never gone wrong' , to tell us if they can whether the horse is by a elite (GP level) stallion and whether its papers have a lot of kur/preferente/prestatie in the close history? I have a theory it's the highly bred ones that have more weak ones among them.
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Mine is now dead, pts aged 36 years, ridden until 35 years, never gave me a vet bill in 20 years. Purchased for Ride and Drive, he jumped like a stag. I was sure he was a part-bred CB but never discovered his breeding.

He was the reason for my passion for the Cleveland Bay. I now have/have had 8 pure bred CB's in total and the only lameness has been, field accident e.g. kicks knocks, foot abscess and as they are very good doers, have one mare no longer in work because of laminitis.
 
My friend is still hunting and jumping her 24 year old warmblood, he's amazing and you would never guess his age! He has no ongoing issues and no arthritis and is often mistaken for a youngster due to his typical warmblood brain 🙄

On our yard it seems to be the coloured cobs that are walking vets bills!
 
Strictly speaking, a traditional ID X TB is a warmblood. My own WB was Czech registered and looking at his bloodlines, had a lot of SF and TB there crossed with a bred called Furisio (Hungarian WB). KWPN is like the ISH...it's a type really.

I have always been interested in Irish horse breeding and have therefore seen which traits do seem to come out time and time again. Having really enjoyed my lovely boy I am trying to do the same now with WB breeding but this post raises a good point. I have dug out posts which consistently show which lines tend to be better for amateurs but can find nothing which relates to soundness. I would choose to walk away from any horse that had done a lot or been heavily produced as a youngster. That is because I have seen a large number of young Irish horses, who had hunted at 3, break down by 6 and out of 8, 3 were put down and never made it back. Could be wrong but I have neither the time or the money as a single horse owner to risk this.
 
Too many Irish horses hunt too much too young and too weak however this would be bad for any horse so it's not about breeding or type .
its possible to indroduce four years olds to hounds without damaging them but using them as hirelings is not the way to do it this has happened to too many young Irish horses
There's a lot good in Ireland they don't overfeed the young horses the horses run out and fend for themselves they know their horses and are not played with too much and of course there are good and poor producers everywhere .
 
Just also want to add we must never ever stop looking at what we do and how we do it the soundest young horse can be lamed by the wrong work, too little and too much .
 
Kat said:
On our yard it seems to be the coloured cobs that are walking vets bills!
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if you mean gypsy cob types then I agree but for all the ones I know that are walking vet bills the conformation faults are very noticable (generally hind end). they'd probably be fine if driven or not ridden in endless circles, overbent on crap surfaces-except the ones hammered previously as 2yos.
 
Goldenstar said:
Too many Irish horses hunt too much too young and too weak however this would be bad for any horse so it's not about breeding or type .
its possible to indroduce four years olds to hounds without damaging them but using them as hirelings is not the way to do it this has happened to too many young Irish horses
There's a lot good in Ireland they don't overfeed the young horses the horses run out and fend for themselves they know their horses and are not played with too much and of course there are good and poor producers everywhere .
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I agree...I didn't mean for my post to sound as if I am criticising the ISH. The point I was trying to make (poorly) was that there is an assumption this breeding programme will yield hardy horses. However, when they start off too young, as said in your post, GS, it will frequently break them.
 
ycbm said:
Can I ask people with single horses, 'never gone wrong' , to tell us if they can whether the horse is by a elite (GP level) stallion and whether its papers have a lot of kur/preferente/prestatie in the close history? I have a theory it's the highly bred ones that have more weak ones among them.
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Mine is by a currently competing GP dressage stallion, AEA Metallic (Metall) Dam was by Falkland Victory, by Falkland, very influential stallions in Australian WB breeding :) producing both jumping and dressage horses up to GP.
 
Lyle said:
Mine is by a currently competing GP dressage stallion, AEA Metallic (Metall) Dam was by Falkland Victory, by Falkland, very influential stallions in Australian WB breeding :) producing both jumping and dressage horses up to GP.
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Love the Metallics, was lucky enough to ride a super smaller WB by him. Great temperaments and very hardy!
 
I don't really associate Warmbloods here with unsoundness, but then again I haven't really been around many (Thoroughbreds are the popular ponies in my area). I have noticed that the amount of younger Warmblood mares (with ? international breeding) for sale that are unsound for riding through paddock accidents (or not disclosed) has risen. I do wonder if the term "WB brain" is somewhat true, they tend to take longer to mature mentally and perhaps are more prone to breaking themselves through silliness rather than anything else. But you could say that for any young horse really. I've only had thoroughbreds, but would probably consider a warmblood as my next horse, so this thread has made for some interesting reading!
 
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