Warmbloods: are they ALWAYS difficult?!

[Kittykins]

A friend of mine bought an unbacked three year old warmblood mare about 18 months ago and has been breaking her in. The mare is a beautiful horse with bags of talent and gorgeous paces - when she chooses to behave. Unfortunately though she has spent much of the last 18 months on her back legs.

It seems that she's just being precocious as there doesn't seem to be anything in particular that sets her off; she just routinely (ie every time she's ridden) has moments in between doing very nice work in which she feels the need to jump about - and then she'll go back to working again.

My friend is determined not to sell her because she can see the potential that the mare has, and how far she has come from when she first arrived, but she is starting to become worn down by it all. She also had quite a nasty fall over the summer when the mare reared unexpectedly out on a hack, and was off riding for about a month so we're keen to avoid injury again!

I happen to own a ten year old warmblood mare who can also have her tricky moments if she's not kept occupied when ridden (although nothing on this scale). She, however, wasn't broken until she was six years old, so we were wondering: is it better to let warmbloods mature in the field for a few more years before introducing them to work? We have heard that they are slower to mature than some.

Essentially we're wondering whether to turn this horse out for a year and start again, but we don't want to if it means going completely back to square one.

 

[Kittykins]

Should say: back, teeth, saddle etc have been checked so we're pretty sure she's not doing it because she's uncomfortable.

 

[Fourlegsgood]

I have two Danish warmbloods. One is just settling age 11 and the other is not quite there yet age 12. Long term projects!!

I'm not sure that helps with your question though. ;-)

 

[YasandCrystal]

WBs do not mature until around 7 years old. Trainability is the word consistently used by dressage trainers and riders and the key thing is for a horse to be 'trainable and willing'. Many WBs have the paces and untapped potential, but with the best will in the world if the horse does not possess a trainable temperament you are onto a loser.

I think turning away is a great idea and then start again slowly maybe with lots and lots of groundwork with long reins. Fritz Stahlecker has made 2 brilliant DVDs on In hand work for the young dressage horse Part 1 and 2 - I would recommend your friend invests in these as his work is amazing and inspiring. She needs to find something to motivate the horse. Tarrsteps speaks of horses having a 'cathartic experience' and suddenly wanting to please the rider and understanding what is expected and embracing that.
Good luck to your friend.

 

[applecart14]

A friend of mine bought an unbacked three year old warmblood mare about 18 months ago and has been breaking her in. The mare is a beautiful horse with bags of talent and gorgeous paces - when she chooses to behave. Unfortunately though she has spent much of the last 18 months on her back legs.

It seems that she's just being precocious as there doesn't seem to be anything in particular that sets her off; she just routinely (ie every time she's ridden) has moments in between doing very nice work in which she feels the need to jump about - and then she'll go back to working again.

My friend is determined not to sell her because she can see the potential that the mare has, and how far she has come from when she first arrived, but she is starting to become worn down by it all. She also had quite a nasty fall over the summer when the mare reared unexpectedly out on a hack, and was off riding for about a month so we're keen to avoid injury again!

I happen to own a ten year old warmblood mare who can also have her tricky moments if she's not kept occupied when ridden (although nothing on this scale). She, however, wasn't broken until she was six years old, so we were wondering: is it better to let warmbloods mature in the field for a few more years before introducing them to work? We have heard that they are slower to mature than some.

Essentially we're wondering whether to turn this horse out for a year and start again, but we don't want to if it means going completely back to square one.

This post screams to me of a horse in pain. I'd deffo get back/teeth/saddle checked. It might be that she is quite stoic for a while when being ridden but then she gets a sudden stabbing pain for example and that is enough to set her off.

Warmbloods can be very stubborn at times. They are not really known for being 'difficult' as such. They normally are very placid, even tempered and willing to please.

 

[Sarah1]

IME yes they most definately do mature a lot slower than other breeds.
Whilst I don't think 4.5 years is way early to start this mare I also don't think another 6 months turned away is going to hurt either - what about letting her have a break from ridden work over the winter & starting again in the spring and just doing in hand work & lots of long reining in the mean time?
The other option would be to send her to a professional? Though you still may have the same problems when she gets back if the amount/intensity of work changes.

 

[YasandCrystal]

This post screams to me of a horse in pain. I'd deffo get back/teeth/saddle checked. It might be that she is quite stoic for a while when being ridden but then she gets a sudden stabbing pain for example and that is enough to set her off.

Warmbloods can be very stubborn at times. They are not really known for being 'difficult' as such. They normally are very placid, even tempered and willing to please.

Applecart could well be right. My WB has chronic sacroilliac dysfunction and the poor horse was backed and schooled and then jumped for over 2 years with that condition untreated. He was in tremendous pain and the only way he showed it at first was through a terrible aggressive temperament. He finally bucked over his ears 4 times in a gentle schooling session with my daughter (the trainer wouldn't let her dismount believing this to be 'attitude'). He was scoped for ulcers which he had (low grade) and then sent to Newmarket and diagnosed with the SI dysfunction. Prior to the Newmarket visit I had an iridology report done and that showed a right hind injury in the pelvic region - absolutely accurate. Interestingly the iridology also showed that my horse has a very trainable temperament and wow doesn't he just to have let himself be ridden and schooled all that time in such pain!! My horse was only 5 years old (likely got the injury at 2 years old) we diagnosed him within 7 months of ownership and we now have LOU for him Maybe worth investigating.

 

[Puppy]

Warmbloods get a lot of bad press and HUGE generalisations made about them which I think are inaccurate. Yes, lord knows there are some very poor quality ones bred, which I wouldn't touch with a bargepole, but there's some pretty amazing ones as well. My warmblood is the most work-loving, keen to please horse I've ever known. It breaks my heart that she has had to be retired, not least as she clearly misses her work.

Who did you have to check the horse's back? It does sound like it might be down to intermittent pain.

 

[susie2193]

I think she definitly needs a break to 'grow up'. Most professionals will back young horses, get them going and then turn them out for 6 months to grow up before they bring them back in to start working properly. You say she was broken at 3, 18 months ago, so she is still only 4.5. If she were mine I would turn her out for the rest of the winter, and start again in late spring.

 

[MrVelvet]

I have a welsh C x British warmblood and he's so laid back and calm I think he's gonna be a dream to back. He does however, have the odd moment! But, who doesn't?

 

[*hic*]

Essentially we're wondering whether to turn this horse out for a year and start again, but we don't want to if it means going completely back to square one.

I think you are looking at this entirely wrong. Currently this an unhappy, dangerous horse who has moments every time she is ridden. I think turning her away and starting again from square one, getting all the checks done before she is restarted would be essential. In any case, if you go back to square one and reintroduce and work through all the stages she's already done it won't be brand new to her, just hopefully iron out in her mind whatever it is that's causing her to react like this.

 

[Temptation]

No ... Love mine

 

[QueenOfCadence]

I was lucky enough to own a Warmblood at one stage (though I had to sell him on due to finances). We got him as a unbacked, unhandled two year old - left him until he was four then slowly started backing him. He accepted the saddle without any problems, he never fussed about anything and nothing bothered him. He had the most amazing temprement and he was very reliable.

So far all the WBs that I have met are AMAZING horses that are very rideable...

I'll quickly post a pic of my WB working in the lunge, this is the second week that he was under saddle (I'm estimating because I'm not sure of the EXACT time)

Plus he was a sweety pie on the ground:

And now with his new owner he is currently the Prelim Champ in SA after his first showing season ever :

Warmbloods are wonderful, but they do need calm, assertive and experienced riders

 

[Pale Rider]

Warmbloods are fine, depends on how you handle them, like all horses really.

 

[charlie76]

I have four and have found that they don;t really start to mature until about 9 yrs old, however I will say once you have ridden a WB nothing else feels quite as nice!

 

[Kittykins]

He looks gorgeous! Congratulations to him for becoming Prelim champion!

I feel quite bad for my friend because she is a very good rider - calm & quiet and always trying to build a horse's confidence. She's been helping me with mine and we've got the most amazing results out of her over the last year, all down to working at my mare's pace and taking the time to really understand her. So we've been coming on leaps and bounds.

It sounds like turning her mare away for a while might be a good idea then.

 

[Kittykins]

I have four and have found that they don;t really start to mature until about 9 yrs old, however I will say once you have ridden a WB nothing else feels quite as nice!

I've found that with mine.

 

[traceyann]

I was given my wb blood because he was a bully and at 17 hands scared his owner witless but he all talk you stand up to him hes a pussey with me anyway he stills trys to bully my friends if he can but apart from that hes excellent to ride lead handle as long as he knows the ground rules and will get a smack if naughty he fine

 

[Goldenstar]

No warmbloods are not always difficult .
I agree with everything said by earlier posters check check and check again for pain and discomfort .
warmbloods are now purpose bred spot horses movement and the ability to sit on their bums is bred into them and so is train ability ie the ability to learn that's the good and the bad they learn the bad as quick as the good and that's why so many people get into trouble with them.
personally I love warmbloods I just love the quickness of mind the sharp ones have.
If you rule out pain I would not rest this mare if she where mine I would try to let her down a bit cut food as much as possible ( many need very little hard food) turn out as much as you can I would teach her to lead from another horse so she can get out and about while she's not ridden I would do as much hacking in walk as possible and go in the school after hacking and just make a fuss of her.
Then each day went into the school I would do a little more but no pressure for a while keeping her busy with schooling pressure may sort it.
But rearing always screams sudden pain to me really get her checked out.
Good luck to your friend I hope it works out.

 

[PooJay]

i think some w/b's are particular tricksters as youngsters. Certainly seeming more opinionated than a lot of other breeds.

I know a couple of people who have had similar problems as the OP's but have got through it and neither problem was pain related.

I would defo explore the pain route to rule it out but i do think wb's, especially mares like to push us to our limits too.

i'm "lucky" enough to own one, thankfully though she's not dangerous. Just a bit...errr...opinionated!

edited to add: - the only problem w/b's i've come accross are mares....

 

[Puppy]

I have four and have found that they don;t really start to mature until about 9 yrs old,

So very true!

 

[rhino]

Mine is, and always has been the easiest horse to handle and ride. I have let a 6/7 year old girl jump him over decent courses in the field and other novice riders do their first competition/clear round on him. He has also been used for BHS Level 1 and 2 training. He is as spookproof and bombproof as it is possible for a living animal to be

This is him after 7 weeks box rest

 

[*hic*]

Humph, the most common comment I get if I take Flynn out anywhere new is "Oh he's doing really well for a baby, what is he? 4 or 5?" No, he's 17 now and he still shows no sign of growing up

 

[Jesstickle]

I have four and have found that they don;t really start to mature until about 9 yrs old, however I will say once you have ridden a WB nothing else feels quite as nice!

P'raps there is hope for BH yet then! He is only half WB (half TB) so surely next year at 7 the penny will finally drop?? I wish he took after his TB father a bit more, he is much more like a big dopey warmblood than a TB

FWIW though, he's never been difficult. Slow on the uptake yes but actively difficult, definitely not. He's a very willing chap.

 

[FoxTrotx]

My warmblood mare is wonderful.......as long as you show no sign of weakness, lol.

 

[MyBoyChe]

A friend of mine has 4 horses, 3 TB mixes and 1 WB, all geldings. She is finding the WB is the trickiest horse on the yard. He is 8 and still very much a baby, some days is really easy and others, almost impossible. He always seems to be looking for ways to occupy himself, cant concentrate for long and can be very tricky both under saddle and in hand. He has a very sweet nature, most of the time, but can be a grump! She has had lessons on him from a pro dressage rider who says the horse has bags of potential but agrees he is not an easy ride. He was bought to showjump but doesnt seem to have the aptitude for this and is a far better dressage horse, in the making, so we shall see. She has decided to sell him many times and find an easier horse (she is an older rider and wants to enjoy her riding), but then has a really good day with him and resolves to persevere. So yes, I do think they can be challenging.

 

[ecrozier]

Mine is half WB (half ish) and he has the best work ethic of any horse I have ever met. Changed his feed recently and he lost the plot a bit to handle, jumpy, fidgety, spooky. But to ride - never a problem! Fingers crossed he stays like that!

 

[Puppy]

A friend of mine has 4 horses, 3 TB mixes and 1 WB, all geldings. She is finding the WB is the trickiest horse on the yard. He is 8 and still very much a baby, some days is really easy and others, almost impossible. He always seems to be looking for ways to occupy himself, cant concentrate for long and can be very tricky both under saddle and in hand. He has a very sweet nature, most of the time, but can be a grump!

Sounds like the last pure TB I owned

 

[Firewell]

Some are tricky, some aren't.
Usually any horse bred for competitive sport is going to have a bit of something about it but to say all warmbloods are tricky is a big generalisation.
My friend is very into warmbloods and while I wouldn't say any of her horses would be suitable for a complete novice some of them are pretty easy and some are well unrideable!
Warmblood is more of a type than a breed anyway as some warmbloods have more draught in them and some have more TB and Arab in them.
I've known warmbloods that have been so different from quick, feisty and clever to dumb, quiet and stubborn.
I think like most horses problems only arise because more nervous or novicey people want a 'posh warmblood' and then don't have the experience or confidence to deal with a horse bred for sport.

 

[soloequestrian]

Have a look at Balance International. If it is a saddle/pain issue, they will be able to help you. Warmbloods tend to have very broad backs and flat withers, and most saddles are not able to accommodated the width - your horse might just be trying to tell you this.