Warning, BHS and public liability

If you have several insurance policies such as BHS and Home insurance and they both cover Public Liability then in the event of a valid claim each of the companies will mitigate their losses by sharing the cost of the pay out.
 
Clara39 said:
I have not requested a quote but please note that the NFU site states that:

NFU Horse Rider insurance is specifically designed to offer riders of all ages (5-70 years) who do not own a horse the very best . . .

"All ages", they say?" Not true. A brief look on line suggests that veteran horses and their veteran riders may not be eligible for standard policies.
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all insurance cover will vary for "normal" and "veteran" polices. NFU are no different in that but again, you MUST be painful and read the small print. So my mare has a small level of vet cover but on checking it is only for external injuries. I took that on the basis that I would not put an old mare through surgery but means I am not covered for say, celulitus or similar.

It really is worth reading the policy and then going through it to be sure you are covered. i.e KBIS will insure tack in a locked tack room, petplan used to insist on a 5 lever lock as well and some insist on a brick built. Then some differentiate between a private and livery yard.
 
Check your trailer insurance small print too.

Stoneways says the trailer must be locked with a clamp/lock from their list of approved locks/clamps. You will find their approved list on their website.

My Stoneways renewal came through last month. It says I must provide a receipt purchase receipt or uptodate valuation from a trailer dealer as well.

So when your trailer goes into a dealer for its annual service, ask them to provide you with a written insurance valuation of replacement value as if Stoneways are introducing this, so too will all the other trailer insurance companies.

If you service your trailer yourself, then you'll need to pay a dealer to lookover your trailer and provide a valuation (unless you have got a recent purchase receipt).

Especially important for older trailers (mine's 1993) where you may need to prove it's wellmaintained, updated, etc, and not in poor condition. (eg my valuation states a value and lists the updated items, like metal floor to replace wooden floor).
 
Insurance is a nightmare. I've been looking into insurance for my son and myself as a new loan opportunity has arisen but also for other activities and so far the insurance policies for horse riding are ridiculous as most won't insure under 5 years old. So what do parents do who have a child in that age bracket? Leave them uninsured??

We have been looking at a company that does sports insurances so that his other activities are also covered they generally cover groups so we would need groups 1-3.

I don't like being held over a barrel when it comes to insurance. I checked our house insurance policy and hes definitely not insured under that which they made very clear in a letter they swiftly wrote to us.
 
horseloaner said:
Insurance is a nightmare. I've been looking into insurance for my son and myself as a new loan opportunity has arisen but also for other activities and so far the insurance policies for horse riding are ridiculous as most won't insure under 5 years old. So what do parents do who have a child in that age bracket? Leave them uninsured??

We have been looking at a company that does sports insurances so that his other activities are also covered they generally cover groups so we would need groups 1-3.

I don't like being held over a barrel when it comes to insurance. I checked our house insurance policy and hes definitely not insured under that which they made very clear in a letter they swiftly wrote to us.
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Sports cover direct (whom I've used a lot but never claimed with!) do policies specifically for children up to 19. It's billed as accident insurance but includes liability https://www.sportscoverdirect.com/quote/425084
 
I would just make sure a sharer signed a contract saying any injuries sustained to them as a result of horse riding were in no part my fault, there fore family or them cannot sue in the result of an unfoturnate accident.

As for the riding aspect and third party I told my insurance company my horse was going on loan and where and to who and they said the cover would be provided the same as if it were me who had him. Obviously they knew he was with someone else and they were paying the bills.

Norty BHS if this is the case though!
 
Black Beastie said:
I would just make sure a sharer signed a contract saying any injuries sustained to them as a result of horse riding were in no part my fault, there fore family or them cannot sue in the result of an unfoturnate accident.
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can't do that in England, you can't sign away the rights the law has given you it could I think be used to show that the sharer understood there was risk involved but it would not prevent them being able to try to prove negligence in event of an accident.
So the sharer could not claim you never told me I might fall off I did not know people fell off but if they could prove negligence in some way they could sue in event of an accident.
 
Pedantic said:
Been told by someone they don't pay out if you have "other" insurance such as "house" insurance.
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Horse insurances do this as well.Petplan wouldn't cover me for public liability until I checked and informed house insurance for PL -I did have it on house insurance.They told me would not go any further until I did this.The insurances go 'halves' with any payouts apparently.

Also Public liability insurance does not mean they will automatically pay out for an incident/accident, it means they will cover you for being sued.
In my case it was up to the person to prove I was negligent despite the fact she couldn't remember my horse standing on her head!!And I couldn't be seen to help her.
 
Goldenstar I don't think that's the case in Scotland as riding schools make you sign a waiver now for accidental injury from falling from or handling a horse.

If its in the waiver that you accept the terms laid out then how can they sue you when they know the risks of handling a horse.

I don't have a sharer, was thinking about it but not really fussed now and reading this has just made me glad I decided against it.
 
Black Beastie said:
Goldenstar I don't think that's the case in Scotland as riding schools make you sign a waiver now for accidental injury from falling from or handling a horse.

If its in the waiver that you accept the terms laid out then how can they sue you when they know the risks of handling a horse.

I don't have a sharer, was thinking about it but not really fussed now and reading this has just made me glad I decided against it.
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I don't know because I have never worked in Scotland but waivers are common in England but if an injured party has signed one and a riding school has been negligent in some way say a badly worn girth strap snapped and pupil was injured they can still be sued whats its harder to do is for the injured person to say I never knew I could fall learning to ride I would not have had the lesson if warned that a fall was a possibitly .
It's might be so in Scotland too.
 
Tnavas said:
It is illegal to double insure!

If BHS is the third party insurance of choice then you can't also insure the same horse for third party with another insurance company.
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The turth is many of us are double or treble covered for liability all the time so say I get into a spot of bother at a BD show I am a member of BD BHS gold member and have liability as part of the insurance that covers house land pets whatever .
So I have cover from BD BHS and NFU what I would do is inform the NFU say I have cover as BD and BHS membership and leave them all to get on with it .
 
Under what section of my house and contents insurance would I look to see if I was covered for my horse's third party liability?

Also, which companies offer comprehensive 3rd Party Liability insurance do people recommend a one horse on DIY livery. The sort of insurance where you know you're definitely covered in the event that your horse kicks a car on the road, escapes from a secure field and damages someone's property or looses its rider out on a hack and causes a pile up as it makes it way home along the road riderless.

God forbid any of these scenarios happens, but they do and we'd all like to think that whatever policy we've purchased, covers it. I've got BHS Gold membership and house insurance but I've been left wondering whether or not I'm covered if an accident of any kind happened. It's worrying. Seems no one can be 100% sure they're going to be covered. :(
 
Nickijem said:
I am currently trying to persue a claim with BHS on my public liability as my horse escaped from his paddock and damaged a neighboring garden. The garden owner is sueing me for the damage but BHS are so far refusing to pay. I am more than a little disappointed as i thought thats what i had public liability cover for.
I haven't given up yet though - I
am still hoping they will pay up.
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Wow thats the kind of reason I had the BHS Gold was in case third party damage etc accident. I had it as my horse was not insured for vets.

What do the say, tell them to look at this thread(I havent read the lot yet) send the BHS this link! Be good to get a response(sorry if they have already)
 
Goldenstar said:
.....So I have cover from BD BHS and NFU what I would do is inform the NFU say I have cover as BD and BHS membership and leave them all to get on with it .
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Yeah, but what a nightmare scenario because you just know NONE of them would accept liability whilst there was the possibility of someone else coughing up. Jeeze, the arguing could go one for years without resolution. The mind boggles :rolleyes:
 
Tnavas said:
It is illegal to double insure!

If BHS is the third party insurance of choice then you can't also insure the same horse for third party with another insurance company.
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It's not 'illegal'! There's no insurance police to come and check all your insurance policies and what they cover and arrest you if you have double cover.

However, you may not be able recover twice for the same damage.

In the event of a claim it will be a matter for the insurance companies to deal with.

BHS cannot be the 'insurance of choice' - you get it whether you want it or not. I have chosen to pay for alternative insurance as it offers better cover but I am also a gold member of BHS.
 
Spyda said:
Under what section of my house and contents insurance would I look to see if I was covered for my horse's third party liability?

Also, which companies offer comprehensive 3rd Party Liability insurance do people recommend a one horse on DIY livery. The sort of insurance where you know you're definitely covered in the event that your horse kicks a car on the road, escapes from a secure field and damages someone's property or looses its rider out on a hack and causes a pile up as it makes it way home along the road riderless.

God forbid any of these scenarios happens, but they do and we'd all like to think that whatever policy we've purchased, covers it. I've got BHS Gold membership and house insurance but I've been left wondering whether or not I'm covered if an accident of any kind happened. It's worrying. Seems no one can be 100% sure they're going to be covered. :(
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I had a meeting with a chap from the NFU this summer i don't know where you would find it on the policy if I where you I would write to the house insurer and ask the question .
I was worried because I know that you don't have to be negligent to be found responsible for damage caused by your horse and wanted to understand how it all worked .
However we own our own land around the house so the horses are at home and the NFU's policy's are set up to cover all of that sort of thing.
It's a nightmare understanding it all . I have a friend who did use the BHS cover she had my horse at the time it kicked a car on her drive way left there by some one who should not have parked it there they claimed for the damage the BHS insurer paid without question my friend was quite cross as the car should not have been there but was told it was cheaper to pay out than defend it.
She did not have to accept that she had been in any negligent it was trouble free and not stressful she was really impressed by how they handled it ( except she did think they ought to have told the cars owner to B***** off)
Only one case I know but it proves it's not all bad with BHS cover.
 
Spyda said:
Yeah, but what a nightmare scenario because you just know NONE of them would accept liability whilst there was the possibility of someone else coughing up. Jeeze, the arguing could go one for years without resolution. The mind boggles :rolleyes:
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No I think you might find that they are used to this and have a system for dealing with it .
 
Sorry to hi-jack,but i have been having this dilemma and wondering if anyone can help??

I have been considering getting BHS for my cob as he has sharers,but undecided as am aware they don't cover if money changes hands which I would like to implement when have established they get on with him etc.
Would it definitely be invalid for third party liability (like if horses damaged something or someone else,not if person riding got hurt),even if they were paying a regular contribution towards costs rather than 'hire'??

If the answer is no then what about if they didn't pay anything?? Would the BHS gold then cover them and any friends that may ride him?? (he's very safe so popular with nervous or novice friends for the odd hack out),and by cover again I mean for third party liability for if something happened and he damaged a car or another person whilst they were riding??

I understand that they couldn't insure the owner and the rider if that was the conflict,but I never wanted it for that anyway,more if someone or something else was involved,just not sure from reading this if would be appropriate or not??:confused:

On the house insurance thing,have read my policy and really can't decide if covered or not.I have personal liability,but that wouldn't cover anyone else would it?? I only have contents cover not buildings if that's any help,does that make a difference (I *think* it does as the buildings cover mentions public liability,but not certain:confused:).

Any help appreciated!!

Meant to say I have insurance with petplan as already had it for other horse (they DO cover sharers BTW even paying ones),but it is ridiculously expensive so don't really want to keep it much longer,BHS is less than half the price of one for both in comparison with PP but not cheap if cover is useless I guess.
 
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kateo said:
It's not 'illegal'! There's no insurance police to come and check all your insurance policies and what they cover and arrest you if you have double cover.

However, you may not be able recover twice for the same damage.

In the event of a claim it will be a matter for the insurance companies to deal with.

BHS cannot be the 'insurance of choice' - you get it whether you want it or not. I have chosen to pay for alternative insurance as it offers better cover but I am also a gold member of BHS.
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It is fraud!
 
Tnavas said:
It is fraud!
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No, it's not automatically fraud. Fraud would be a deliberate intention to get something to which you are not entitled/ deprive another.

I have 3rd party liability cover under BHS, my rider policy and my horses policy - the policies all cover different things but with some overlap. There is no illegality or fraud. Should I try to recover the same thing from each wihtout full disclosure then there may be an attempted fraud.

Some policies exist purely to payout if a condition is met and do not preclude payouts if you have/can recover from other sources. Every policy is different and it is your responsibility to check the ts&cs and act accordingly. Insurance companies frequently apportion liability as between each party and as between insurance companies.

By being so dramatic with your claims of illegality and fraud, you risk putting someone off from ensuring that they have an adequate level of cover which is a bigger risk.
 
Tnavas said:
It is fraud!
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No it's only fraud it you attempt to claim for the same thing from two policy's .
So if you have a gold necklace insure it with two company's lose it then claim from both that's fraud.
Of course Tnavas you live in new zealand it might be different there.
 
Clara39 if you are paying to ride peoples horses per ride or per day then that person owning the horse needs to be licenced as a riding school, that's the law. People looking for a sharer for their horse would need to charge an amount for the upkeep of the horse eg the feed bill, and charge the amount regardless of whether the sharer rides that week or not. By saying the horse is available for eg 10 pounds per day, that's hire and reward. Plenty of people do it, but then plenty of people drive their cars without a licence and other things they shouldn't do as well. It's no wonder insurances are deciding not to cover people who have a sharer for their horse. It's dodgy ground I suppose.
 
Nfu will not cover sharers and I had to have something specially written into my cover with pet plan. I am not a sharer currently but had a nightmare trying to get insurance when I was. Pet plan only insures me for when no one else would be riding the horse and it doesn't cover me for any I'm paid to ride as that's classed as work.
 
Goldenstar said:
No it's only fraud it you attempt to claim for the same thing from two policy's .
So if you have a gold necklace insure it with two company's lose it then claim from both that's fraud.
Of course Tnavas you live in new zealand it might be different there.
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I'm English and the majority of our laws are English ones. I suggest that any of you that have overlapping policies check your status.

Also read the fine print carefully.

These insurance companies are tricky characters at the best of time!
 
Well if it makes one person go back and check their policy then the thread has been worth it. I do really REALLY think that the policies should be more clearly worded at times. No one wants to be caught out and we are paying to give ourselves cover. I ended up reading mine really carefully, making a note of all my questions and then going through this with NFU very carefully. To be fair, they took the time but as a reasonably intelligent person, I did find that a lot of my assumptions were incorrect!
 
RiderLizzie said:
Interesting they won't pay out I there are other forms of insurance though. Bad BHS!
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The BHS are insurers of last resort, this means that if you make a claim they will check whether you have appropriate cover elsewhere and if you do that cover will deal with the claim not the BHS. If you don't or if the other policy doesn't apply for some reason then the BHS pay. This is clear in the T&Cs and is the reason the BHS can offer cover cheaply - because they only pay out in limited circumstances. Nothing naughty or bad :)

OWLIE185 said:
If you have several insurance policies such as BHS and Home insurance and they both cover Public Liability then in the event of a valid claim each of the companies will mitigate their losses by sharing the cost of the pay out.
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Not quite...... as the BHS is the insurer of last resort they wouldn't pay at all if you have cover elsewhere.

If you have an accident that is potentially covered by your home insurance, your horse insurance and the BHS then the BHS would step aside and the home insurance and the horse insurance would agree to split the claim 50/50 between them (unless they could claim against a third party).

The issue of insurers claiming against a third party is one very important reason why everyone should have third party insurance and not rely upon "I would never sue my sharer" or similar. You may not have much option once insurers are involved. If your insurance has paid an expensive claim and has an opportunity to pass the cost on to another insurer (the one insuring your rider/instructor/YO for example) then they will do this, and you may be in breach of your T&Cs if you refuse to co-operate.
 
Hello people

Well, I've been in touch with the BHS, who in turn contacted their insurers South Essex Insurance Brokers, and I've had permission to post the following reply to set your minds (and mine!) at rest:

"With regards to the sharing of horses there are no exclusions for this. If two people are sharing a horse and any money is a contribution towards the upkeep of the horse the BHS cover would operate.

The exclusion in respect of money exchanging hands is when this is seen as a business activity, the sharing of horses is not viewed in this way."
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