Warning: Food supplements should not be used as a subsitute for a varied diet...

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TwoStroke

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and healthy lifestyle.

That's what it says on the back of my pack of berocca.

The horse world is only really starting to wake up and realise the full effect that diet has on horses. But exactly how effective is supplementing with minerals - even ones such as Pro Hoof, or a bespoke mineral supplement based on a grazing analysis?

Feeding minerals in such a way is no different to us taking a multivitamin, surely. So assuming that feeding minerals in this way is no substitute for a varied diet... how can we offer our horses such a diet? (I have some ideas about the healthy lifestyle ;)). Preferably without the need for a re-mortage!
 
The way I understand it it we can look into what foods contain what vitamins and go to the shop and buy a varied diet full of all the essential vitamins which many people still don't do:rolleyes:.

Horses however only have the choice of the forage and grass and food that we choose for them as they are shut in a paddock/stable and unable to forage for themselves which can be deficient in essential minerals hence the need to do an analysis to find out. We have created an artificial environment and stifled the natural food seeking behaviours therefore there is in some cases a need to compensate.

Creating an environment of varied hedgerows/herbs etc. and grazing more suited to horses rather than dairy herd could be a way to go ?
 
TwoTurtleDoves said:
and healthy lifestyle.

That's what it says on the back of my pack of berocca.

The horse world is only really starting to wake up and realise the full effect that diet has on horses. But exactly how effective is supplementing with minerals - even ones such as Pro Hoof, or a bespoke mineral supplement based on a grazing analysis?

Feeding minerals in such a way is no different to us taking a multivitamin, surely. So assuming that feeding minerals in this way is no substitute for a varied diet... how can we offer our horses such a diet? (I have some ideas about the healthy lifestyle ;)). Preferably without the need for a re-mortage!
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For a start, I would stop keeping horses on cow pastures 24/7. And anyway, in what way is a humans diet natural and varied? You've got a choice of carbs, protein and fibre... pretty much all that is available to a horse.
 
Yes, sorry perhaps I haven't made myself clear :o. I understand why we supplement with minerals, of course, but was interested by the assertion that this is 'no substitute' for the real thing.
 
TwoTurtleDoves said:
Yes, sorry perhaps I haven't made myself clear :o. I understand why we supplement with minerals, of course, but was interested by the assertion that this is 'no substitute' for the real thing.
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Well, we could all just release all our captives back into the wild?
 
tallyhohoho! said:
For a start, I would stop keeping horses on cow pastures 24/7. And anyway, in what way is a humans diet natural and varied? You've got a choice of carbs, protein and fibre... pretty much all that is available to a horse.
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I agree that would be a start :D.

But even on the decent herby old turf that some people are lucky to have, there are still usually fairly major mineral imbalances which often require supplementing with minerals.

I see a market for low sugar, high fibre forage which is grown with a perfect (or close to ;)) mineral balance! But is such a thing possible?
 
TwoTurtleDoves said:
I agree that would be a start :D.

But even on the decent herby old turf that some people are lucky to have, there are still usually fairly major mineral imbalances which often require supplementing with minerals.

I see a market for low sugar, high fibre forage which is grown with a perfect (or close to ;)) mineral balance! But is such a thing possible?
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Even in the wild horses will go to specific places (especially when pregnant) to find minerals. It has been documented in numerous places where there are still wild herds.

This is how a horse would normally satisfy the "varied diet" requirement you speak of. Except they would probably roam VAST (think of Nevada Rockies) areas rather than half an acre of the same patch day in, day out.

growing such a forage would require land that has everything in it but this can have devastating consequences for other wild-life. E.g. if acidic soils were balanced with alkaline then the leaching would affect waterways and it's ecosystem. As you will probably have learnt in GCSE Geography, fertilisation has devastating effects on the environment.

It's a pretty selfish way of making sure a HORSE has it's 5-a-day.
 
I think you have a point op but generally horses graze one or a couple of fields which are managed to kill all weeds and lack bushes/trees etc. so they do have to depend on what happens to be in there as well as getting any excesses there may be. They may well get hay from various hay/haylage supplies but again this is often managed strictly for yield not nutritional content.
Naturally horses can roam anywhere to find what they might need. There are horse people who feed a variety of fruit, veggies and nuts etc. as opposed to vitamin and mineral supplementation.
I've read of very few forage analysis results being perfect for (what we believe are) horses needs and many very lacking in vital minerals such as zinc.
We are omnivores horses are browsers/grazers, we tend to eat very varied diets, horses just have to eat what we provide in the field or bucket/loose.
 
I took history instead of geography :p.

Fertilising isn't ideal either, though. Is there a way to improve the mineral balance of soil/grass without adding fertiliser?

How about supplementing herbs instead of raw minerals?
 
I think we are wrong to think that the componants of a diet work in isolation, food is not just nutrietion.
For the horse even if they obtained all there needs from a small block or scoop of feed that would not forefill ther chewing needs, their need to browse. In fact I would rather have a horses that was lacking in some vitamin than a bored horse thats destroying a stable in its effort to keep its self occupied.
Most equines are kept as pets they are not elite athletes fine tuned to perfection and can cope happily on a diet of boring( to us) but satisfing bulk.There is nothing so tasty as a tree to strip when they are not supposed to have it.
 
Banging my head against the wall a little here.

It means that you can't just eat 1 meal consisting of fried chicken or the like and take Berocca and assume that just because you've had the calories and vitamins for the day that you have a healthy diet.

Or eat nothing at all and just Berocca etc.
 
undertheweather said:
Banging my head against the wall a little here.

It means that you can't just eat 1 meal consisting of fried chicken or the like and take Berocca and assume that just because you've had the calories and vitamins for the day that you have a healthy diet.

Or eat nothing at all and just Berocca etc.
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Why are you banging your head? Seems like an odd thing to do.

I didn't ask for an explanation of what the warning meant - that's bleeding obvious.

I was commenting that feeding a diet of forage which is low in variety (in comparison to a 'wild' horse's diet) and supplementing with minerals IS the horsey equivalent of eating fried chicken and berocca.

Duh.
 
TwoTurtleDoves said:
Have I offended you in some way? :eek::D
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Not at all! :)

I am just marvelling how a diet of pretty much 100% fibre constitutes fried chicken. I am just confused perhaps hence my comment. Never thought that I was feeding my horses the equivalent of a fast food diet.
 
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Good quality forage is not the equivalent of fried chicken, hay or haylage with the apporiate energy levels for the individual horse forage from different sources say some chopped straw , Alfafa speedibeet anything from a range of feeds oats for very hard working horses micronised linseed are all good and healthy things for horses to eat .
Grass is more problematic paddocks and fields are not really any more of a natural food source than baled and plain oats and linseeds and the like horses would need huge areas to roam to be in anything like a natural foraging system.
So we do the best we can in the situations we are in.
However heavily molassed mixes could be said to be getting close to equine KFC.
 
T-hohoho - oh that's ok then thougt you were being sarcy at me :D.

GS - depends what you mean by good quality, imo. Where I am you'd pay a premium for pure rye grass forage, on the basis that its 'top quality'. I would say that it's pretty close to equine macdonalds, however.
 
Depending on the field cut, hay is not necessarily "low in variety". In fact some suppliers will vary the mix of grasses to suit horses requirements - I am very lucky in being able to dictate the sward "ingredients".
 
TwoTurtleDoves said:
T-hohoho - oh that's ok then thougt you were being sarcy at me :D.

GS - depends what you mean by good quality, imo. Where I am you'd pay a premium for pure rye grass forage, on the basis that its 'top quality'. I would say that it's pretty close to equine macdonalds, however.
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Well no one makes you buy that do they just like KFC.
 
If your forage is perfectly balanced and you don't need to supplement minerals, GS, then you're fortunate. Mines not, and I do. The KFC thing is deviating from the point - which is that having to supplement minerals is suboptimal, and how much better would it be (and how much easier to keep barefoot horses) if balanced minerals could be provided without the use of minerals.

Don't really see what's so hard to understand!
 
Cortez said:
Depending on the field cut, hay is not necessarily "low in variety". In fact some suppliers will vary the mix of grasses to suit horses requirements - I am very lucky in being able to dictate the sward "ingredients".
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Much better than single variety fields but even this variety grown in one area will have local inbalances that the grasses reflected.

In the wild, horses would be able to cover a vast area taking advantage of different types of mineral levels and different soil types.

When I take mine for a walk there is one small area in the hedgerow where he loves to lick the soil, I assume there is something in that spot that he craves. If he was free range he would take himself there whenever he needed to; the reality is he has to wait till I lead him past and rely on me being nice enough to stop and wait while he licks.

This in theory is a horse that has had minerals added to cover shortages in the forage but still there is something else he feels he needs.
 
It's not hard to understand. It's just impossible.

Every animal in captivity or domesticity needs supplementation. It's a fact of modern life. People need supplements as diets are just not varied enough.

You may call it sub-optimal however, not even in the wild will horses get everything they need from food alone.
 
TwoTurtleDoves said:
If your forage is perfectly balanced and you don't need to supplement minerals, GS, then you're fortunate. Mines not, and I do. The KFC thing is deviating from the point - which is that having to supplement minerals is suboptimal, and how much better would it be (and how much easier to keep barefoot horses) if balanced minerals could be provided without the use of minerals.

Don't really see what's so hard to understand!
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I don't have any issue with understanding you you are frankly quite rude.
I know my land I know the issues and supplement accordingly feed a broad range of foods based on what the horse is doing and it's type .if the horse is healthly BF and not sore doing its work I know I am not far wrong.
The uk generally is not optimal for horses .
 
I have no option but to supplement. I have about 12 acres, all as one field, which I have not touched for 21 years and never stock to full anywhere near full capacity. I don't even allow sheep on it now because they crop too close and reduce the plant variety. So I have a wild flower meadow with a huge number of species at 1100 feet, about as good as you can get for horses.

BUT the land is riddled with iron and manganese and is also low in calcium. The water supply is also high in iron and manganese. So even with the best will in the world I can't give my boys a balanced diet and have to supplement.
 
The problem we have in the UK is not that there is a lack of nutrients (there is that) but also this is a very fertile land and there is just an excess of the wrong ones for horses.

Therefore, to redress the balance, supplements are needed.

The body can excrete what it doesn't need but too much of one, inhibits the absorption of another. This has been studied in great detail not just in horses but cattle and sheep.

You cant get away from supplements. Different times of year require different minerals too. To prevent grass staggers in sheep, Mag is needed, now we know horses need this in spring too.

Its the most logical way to provide essential nutrients to our animals.

Even my cat needs calcium supplements.
 
Uh oh, looks like we need to wheel out the rudometer again :eek:. But I'm afraid ill need to abandon the discussion - colicky horse :(.

In the mean time, GS - chill winston! No offence was meant :D
 
Ok, will do. Apologies if I have been, the sickness is getting me down.

Hope all ok with your horse!
 
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