Warning re payload accuracy

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theopuppy

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Hi all,
Just a quick warning to those who have had boxes made by any manufacturers. I finally had my dream lorry 7.5 made and collected last year only to find I have a fabricated payLoad certificate. This was a very well respected and I thought ‘ honest’ manufacturer. Sadly he was not telling the truth . The 2008kg payload certificate I was given when I collected the lorry was not correct. I’ve just had the lorry weighed and the payload is 1700kg. Absolutely gutted as I said before the vehicle was made I would forgo the loo ,cooker, fridge etc to get the payload as near as possible to 2tons. He confirmed this was fine. It appears he was just the same as all the others that I have had the misfortune to deal with.

Obviously one doesn’t want to be stopped and find the payload limit has been exceeded. Very disappointed and please be alert. I believe it is not unknown in the horsebox industry to remove the partitions prior to reduce the payload.
 
Please name the manufacturer.

Sadly this is very common when secondhand boxes are sold on, but for you to be sold one new when you were upfront about the payload you wanted is appalling 😬.

If you have a paper trail of assurances about the payload you might have a good case about being missold the lorry.

It’s a lesson to be present at the weighbridge when a lorry is weighed. I expect that your lorry was weighed with the interior fully stripped out, no partitions etc.
 
It is sadly common, the certificate may have been correct at the time - but like you say without spare tyre, partition, water, fuel other than minimal, gas cylinder for hot water / fridge etc. Add those back in and you easily get your missing 300kgs.

I looked at a 4.5 tonne one that only had a payload of 900kgs because of all the fancy living stuff - so you do have to check yourself sadly.
 
theopuppy said:
I finally had my dream lorry 7.5 made and collected last year only to find I have a fabricated payLoad certificate. This was a very well respected and I thought ‘ honest’ manufacturer.
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That is shocking - assuming he's still trading can you get your money back? If you have written record of your request and his assurances, that should surely be a clear cut case of mis-selling.

ETA actually @Polos Mum makes a good point....if you take the partitions, spare tyre, most of the fuel out....does that get you to what the certificate says? Because that is quite common and if it's the case, I bet he would argue that he told the truth. Not that that makes it much better really, just that it might be harder to make a case for mis-selling. I'm sorry this has happened to you with such a big investment purchase. Legal or not it's profoundly unimpressive.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Please name the manufacturer.

Sadly this is very common when secondhand boxes are sold on, but for you to be sold one new when you were upfront about the payload you wanted is appalling 😬.

If you have a paper trail of assurances about the payload you might have a good case about being missold the lorry.

It’s a lesson to be present at the weighbridge when a lorry is weighed. I expect that your lorry was weighed with the interior fully stripped out, no partitions etc.
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I’m afraid to say it was Kevin Parker.. no recourse as the company was liquidated 9 mths after I bought it so all the warranties were also worthless.
 
Polos Mum said:
It is sadly common, the certificate may have been correct at the time - but like you say without spare tyre, partition, water, fuel other than minimal, gas cylinder for hot water / fridge etc. Add those back in and you easily get your missing 300kgs.

I looked at a 4.5 tonne one that only had a payload of 900kgs because of all the fancy living stuff - so you do have to check yourself sadly.
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The lorry was weighed both times empty apart from, I assume they took the partitions out to give me the bigger payload when I bought it. It’s new not second hand so no bits and pieces in it and only cupboards and bench seat. The quarter tank of fuel doesn’t weigh 300kg which is the difference in weight certificates.
 
Widgeon said:
That is shocking - assuming he's still trading can you get your money back? If you have written record of your request and his assurances, that should surely be a clear cut case of mis-selling.

ETA actually @Polos Mum makes a good point....if you take the partitions, spare tyre, most of the fuel out....does that get you to what the certificate says? Because that is quite common and if it's the case, I bet he would argue that he told the truth. Not that that makes it much better really, just that it might be harder to make a case for mis-selling. I'm sorry this has happened to you with such a big investment purchase. Legal or not it's profoundly unimpressive.
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Widgeon said:
That is shocking - assuming he's still trading can you get your money back? If you have written record of your request and his assurances, that should surely be a clear cut case of mis-selling.

ETA actually @Polos Mum makes a good point....if you take the partitions, spare tyre, most of the fuel out....does that get you to what the certificate says? Because that is quite common and if it's the case, I bet he would argue that he told the truth. Not that that makes it much better really, just that it might be harder to make a case for mis-selling. I'm sorry this has happened to you with such a big investment purchase. Legal or not it's profoundly unimpressive.
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The company has liquidated.
Yes I suspect he took the partitions out.. how can this be legal as clearly we need to partitions to travel? I can even get the partition out as it’s so heavy.

I’m just ranting as there’s nothing I can do now.. just warning others to triple check before they get taken for a ride.
 
I was expecting this to be a 3.5t story of woe, my friends one turned out to have a payload of 500kg!

Im so sorry, I agree I'd have considered them a reputable manufacturer.

I think lesson for all horsebox purchasers is to go on a weighbridge on your test drive, although that's near impossible in some parts of the country.


Does anyone know - if you add up the axel weights on the plating cert is that the vehicle weight? I feel it should be? Obvs could still have been manipulated but less likely if last plated when they weren't looking to sell or if they have the old ones in a folder.
 
Jambarissa said:
I was expecting this to be a 3.5t story of woe, my friends one turned out to have a payload of 500kg!

Im so sorry, I agree I'd have considered them a reputable manufacturer.

I think lesson for all horsebox purchasers is to go on a weighbridge on your test drive, although that's near impossible in some parts of the country.


Does anyone know - if you add up the axel weights on the plating cert is that the vehicle weight? I feel it should be? Obvs could still have been manipulated but less likely if last plated when they weren't looking to sell or if they have the old ones in a folder.
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No, you can only tell your payload by getting it on a weighbridge.
 
Unfortunately it’s been done for years and all sorts of lorries. My OH started off as an HGV mechanic and he said back then it used to be done and that wasn’t horse boxes. As you say very wrong as you’re not going to travel without the partitions. On the axle weight, I can’t quite remember, but you have to check that the individual axles aren’t overloaded as well as the horsebox in full. So potentially if you had a very large horse over one axle and a pony over the other axle, you might be okay in total weight but the horse axle overweight.

Edited to add for the OP whilst it is further expense can you look to see if you can get some lighter partitions or is there anything that can come out and still be safe to get the weight back down? I see that it looks like you’ve kept the living to a minimum but it may be they have used heavy cupboards and lighter caravan cupboards may keep the weight lower. That said I can appreciate you don’t want to be ripping the interior of a new lorry apart. Such a shame for you.
 
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I think it would have been weighed with minimal fuel, no water and no gaz. Once these are factored in plus whatever you carry before horses and tack can easily make 200kg. You can't manufacture a payload certificate.
100l of water is 100kg, 70l of fuel is 60kg plus gas bottle. Not sure where they lost another 100+kgs but probs partitions. That is really disappointing and unexpected of KP.
 
Having had a horsebox on the past, we've now got a motorhome and there are exactly the same problems with payloads as there are with horseboxes. We had to have our 3.5t motorhome uprated to 4t because at 3.5t there simply wasn't enough payload to cover water and waste, fuel etc.

It's commonly recommended that you should be present at the weighing, but from our experience anyway, that is often very difficult. We have used public/private weigh bridges up and down the country, and over the past few years, there are far fewer available (using the. Gov.uk website), and large areas aren't covered at all. So you have no option but to trust the payload certificate you are given.

Sorry you're in this position @theopuppy it's so disappointing to find that despite all your efforts to ensure you have sufficient payload, that your requirements have been overlooked. 😟
 
So sorry this has happened OP.
I paid a deposit on a 3.5 ton van style basic horsebox. I specified that although I would never carry 2 horses I needed a payload of at least 1000kg. This was on record in an email I sent which he had replied to and agreed. The manufacturer purchased a 3.5 ton van for us. He had stripped it down, had done a certain amount of work on it and took it to be resprayed. On the way home he decided to go to the weighbridge. Although it had no lining or partitions it was still hopelessly overweight.
He then realised he had forgotten that the van was not only long wheelbase but had the maximum rear overhang beyond the rear wheels. This made the original van much heavier than he had calculated and the payload ridiculously small.
He repaid our deposit without arguing but we had to wait a month or so to receive it.
Another thing to be aware of.
 
Steerpike said:
Thank you for this, we are just about to start looking for a 3.5t lorry either one made or have one made to suit us.
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You'll struggle to get more than 1K payload on a 3.5T. Be very wary of anyone that tells you different. They are either lying or it's built of very flimsy stuff. They are really for one horse only.
 
Jambarissa said:
I was expecting this to be a 3.5t story of woe, my friends one turned out to have a payload of 500kg!

Im so sorry, I agree I'd have considered them a reputable manufacturer.

I think lesson for all horsebox purchasers is to go on a weighbridge on your test drive, although that's near impossible in some parts of the country.


Does anyone know - if you add up the axel weights on the plating cert is that the vehicle weight? I feel it should be? Obvs could still have been manipulated but less likely if last plated when they weren't looking to sell or if they have the old ones in a folder.
Click to expand...
That’s dreadful.. not much leeway after loading one small equine for your friend.. not just me being taken for a ride then.
 
humblepie said:
Unfortunately it’s been done for years and all sorts of lorries. My OH started off as an HGV mechanic and he said back then it used to be done and that wasn’t horse boxes. As you say very wrong as you’re not going to travel without the partitions. On the axle weight, I can’t quite remember, but you have to check that the individual axles aren’t overloaded as well as the horsebox in full. So potentially if you had a very large horse over one axle and a pony over the other axle, you might be okay in total weight but the horse axle overweight.

Edited to add for the OP whilst it is further expense can you look to see if you can get some lighter partitions or is there anything that can come out and still be safe to get the weight back down? I see that it looks like you’ve kept the living to a minimum but it may be they have used heavy cupboards and lighter caravan cupboards may keep the weight lower. That said I can appreciate you don’t want to be ripping the interior of a new lorry apart. Such a shame for you.
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Yes would have liked lighter partitions.. and even these weren’t done to the spec I asked for.. just don’t have the money to change them now as I burst a blood vessel to pay for this lorry.. maybe KP didn’t care when he knew he was winding down. However I hear another major respected HB company also weighs the vehicle without partitions .. hearsay but worrying for all as who can we trust?
 
Meredith said:
So sorry this has happened OP.
I paid a deposit on a 3.5 ton van style basic horsebox. I specified that although I would never carry 2 horses I needed a payload of at least 1000kg. This was on record in an email I sent which he had replied to and agreed. The manufacturer purchased a 3.5 ton van for us. He had stripped it down, had done a certain amount of work on it and took it to be resprayed. On the way home he decided to go to the weighbridge. Although it had no lining or partitions it was still hopelessly overweight.
He then realised he had forgotten that the van was not only long wheelbase but had the maximum rear overhang beyond the rear wheels. This made the original van much heavier than he had calculated and the payload ridiculously small.
He repaid our deposit without arguing but we had to wait a month or so to receive it.
Another thing to be aware of.
Click to expand...
That was decent of him to refund.. after he had done all the work to.. good to hear some honest people about.
 
Northern Hare said:
Having had a horsebox on the past, we've now got a motorhome and there are exactly the same problems with payloads as there are with horseboxes. We had to have our 3.5t motorhome uprated to 4t because at 3.5t there simply wasn't enough payload to cover water and waste, fuel etc.

It's commonly recommended that you should be present at the weighing, but from our experience anyway, that is often very difficult. We have used public/private weigh bridges up and down the country, and over the past few years, there are far fewer available (using the. Gov.uk website), and large areas aren't covered at all. So you have no option but to trust the payload certificate you are given.

Sorry you're in this position @theopuppy it's so disappointing to find that despite all your efforts to ensure you have sufficient payload, that your requirements have been overlooked. 😟
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Sadly it wasn’t just the payload that was inaccurate.. however wanted to warn people due to the legality and dangers of overloading and trusting the sellers or manufacturers. I could have sold the lorry and stated the 2008 kg payload then would be accused of being dishonest!
 
Thank you for sharing. Im very fortunate, my daughter sells amazing 3.5 tonne boxes. She is so fussy about safety and payloads. Every box is designed for ours to go in and then extras are added for customers. It's so bizarre. The baby I put in a car seat now transports me and our precious cargo. Always have your potential boxes tested. Too many adapted sardine tins out there😌
 
I find the whole transporting horses thing very upsetting. Seen boxes with ramps so vertical, no wonder the horse won't load. Flimsy side panels. Floors with gaps. It amazes me that there are people who say they love their horses but are willing to put them in death traps because the price is right. A decent trailer with a decent capable towing vehicle is better than a horse box with a gas stove for a kettle. Please, please do your research folks.
 
BSL2 said:
I find the whole transporting horses thing very upsetting. Seen boxes with ramps so vertical, no wonder the horse won't load. Flimsy side panels. Floors with gaps. It amazes me that there are people who say they love their horses but are willing to put them in death traps because the price is right. A decent trailer with a decent capable towing vehicle is better than a horse box with a gas stove for a kettle. Please, please do your research folks.
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Have messaged you!
 
Northern Hare said:
Having had a horsebox on the past, we've now got a motorhome and there are exactly the same problems with payloads as there are with horseboxes. We had to have our 3.5t motorhome uprated to 4t because at 3.5t there simply wasn't enough payload to cover water and waste, fuel etc.

It's commonly recommended that you should be present at the weighing, but from our experience anyway, that is often very difficult. We have used public/private weigh bridges up and down the country, and over the past few years, there are far fewer available (using the. Gov.uk website), and large areas aren't covered at all. So you have no option but to trust the payload certificate you are given.

Sorry you're in this position @theopuppy it's so disappointing to find that despite all your efforts to ensure you have sufficient payload, that your requirements have been overlooked. 😟
Click to expand...

A lot of scrap yards have them,
 
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