Warwick Schiller

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Just wondering what opinions were about him and if anyone on here subscribed to the videos and/or had trained under him or (i.e. at clinics)?

I stumbled across him years ago via my interest in reining and western riding and I was interested in what I'd read and seen of his. I went as a spectator to a clinic he held back in 2015 and I didn't like what I saw and heard at it. I'd car shared with a work colleague that I didn't know that well so stayed but if I'd been on my own I would have left at lunch time like 50% of other spectators did. On the car home it transpired my colleague/now friend felt the same way but didn't want to say to me either in case I was enjoying it. Having discussed it at a later date with people I'd met after the clinic via western none of them were impressed at all with him after watching (until the lunch break).

Since then I purposely didn't read or watch anything of his but have noticed him become increasingly popular and he (& is wife) went to WEG on the Australia reining team - so he's clearly good at what he does! More and more he's crept into my social media feed and a very wise Canadian has referenced his work leading me to look back into his programme.

He's back in Scotland in August and I'm tempted to go and watch him again but I still have a niggle having had a bad experience initially. However a lot of time has past and if he is a good trainer then he'll constantly be evolving and learning. I know my knowledge base is much different now from what it was when I went to the clinic in 2015.

So yeah, quiet at work and figured why quietly muse to myself when I could ask random questions on the internet instead ;)
 
I do think first impressions stick and not all trainers methods are for everyone’s liking.
In comparison Parelli is or was very popular and he is very much like marmite.
 
Cortez said:
What was it you didn't like about him and/or his methods?
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I'll try and keep it brief but that's not my strong point!

So day of clinic was freezing cold with occasional horizontal freezing rain (welcome to Scotland). The horses were stood still for a long time while WS talked and told stories; a personal dislike of mine was all the name dropping however that's irrelevant. The horses were then to start doing circle work and WS had demonstrated how to send them away. There was a lovely young horse (3 or 4) who had stood the quietest during all the bad weather and waiting around. When his owner went to send him away she wasn't "definite" about it and horse didn't react immediately. Now that is no slur on the owner as the reason you attend a clinic is to learn.

WS took the horse off her and when he went to ask the horse to move on he ran at it and kneed it in the stomach (underside not ribs if that makes a difference). He spent a lot of time excusing what he did and likened it to electric fencing, if the horse touches it then it's on the horse what happens next. Fair dos but he ran at the horse and purposely kneed the horse who had not come into his space. I also thought it was a pretty poor show that he started on the quietest horse who had behaved the best and was, IMO, not likely to retaliate putting aside my perceived wrongs of his actions in the first place. He brought that up a lot over the course of the morning always excusing/validating why he did what he did and slagging off "some derogative term along the lines of tree huggers or fluffy bunnies" who would object to that kind of action. How the horse had been disrespectful (I'm not a pro horse trainer but I don't believe that horse don't anything wrong other than take a few 2secs to figure out what his (new) owner was asking him to do in strange place having been frozen to the spot for at least 45mins) and needed educated as it was taking advantage yadda yadda

I cautiously discussed it with my friend on the way home, just in case she really liked the day, and she saw and felt the same as me. At later dates during general conversation with people it has come up that we had attended the same clinic as spectators, I'm never sure where people's allegiances lie so tend to let them lead conversations on topics I'm not happy about, and they've all brought up that incident and how unimpressed/appalled/upset they were by it. I had assumed that half the crowd left at lunch time due to it being absolutely baltic and very unpleasant to sit out in but, again at a later date, they have all said it was because of what he did to that chestnut.

This can't be proved as you are not allowed to film anything at a WS clinic under any circumstances and is my account of what I witnessed
 
I also would not be giving him my attention or my cash. there was another clinician of his type who was very popular up here-who people claim is wonderful and I'd not give him any more money either as he obviously cannot tell a horse that was (pretty obviously) in quite alot of pain from a 'naughty' one and subsequently rode it into the ground to' teach it a lesson'.
 
Thank you HHOers :)

That's my thinking too but wasnt sure if I was biting my nose off to spite my face (as in clinics are a learning opportunity) and/or throwing baby out with the bathwater.

Some people/trainers that I respect have a lot of time for WS and recommend him. I wasnt sure if I was overreacting (moi??) and should give him the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for the opinions
 
I took my horse to a different clinic to yours, I think it may have been 2015 though. I had liked the videos, but hated the clinic. It was very much all about Warwick Schiller, which is fair enough I guess, but I also thought it was to the detriment of the horse.

We were stood still in the cold for almost 2 hours, then suddenly they had to do fast turns and cantering, no warm up. One in particular got very distressed, and then came down with colic.

I was supposed to run at my horse a'flailing a whip to see if he was grounded or some such thing. He stood his ground as he and I had a good history, but then I was told that it was because he was shut down so Warwick took over and found that he could scare my horse if he crawled up to him. Not sure what that was about.

Hey, I am just a person, and I possibly just didn't get it, but also, hey, I was on a clinic to learn, so even if I got it all wrong, then maybe it was not explained properly.

He wanted me to do 2 hours of lungeing on a 12ft rope, at canter with quick changes of rein. Apparently that would change my horse. Yep, I thought, it would change him from sound to lame...

I got sick of the sound bites. EG, I was lying to him. ???? Oh, he said I dyed my hair, so I am a liar, as I was trying to trick him to think I was more beautiful or youthful than I was. Er, I don't dye my hair. OK, I was lying because I wore make up to make myself appear something I am not. Er, nope, no make up here. Just sun cream as I have rubbish skin. OK, so I wore a bra, so I was lying to him, trying to make my breasts look more appealing than they are really. Ha, yes, I am wearing a bra, but if he owned a set of boobs he would know that if I don't wear a bra the flimmping hurt if I run/walk fast/ride. It is a T shirt bra, not some lacy basque!!!

I was told how bad my horse was when we started (I thought he was quite good actually) and how much he had improved (I thought he was now confused). Of course, because I did not do the work, as in 2 hours of solid flipping round at canter on the lunge, that is why my horse had not improved...

So, on his videos I see a lot of things I like. I like how he thinks about stuff - on video. But I would never subject a horse of mine to that experience live at a clinic.
 
Red-1 said:
I got sick of the sound bites. EG, I was lying to him. ???? Oh, he said I dyed my hair, so I am a liar, as I was trying to trick him to think I was more beautiful or youthful than I was. Er, I don't dye my hair. OK, I was lying because I wore make up to make myself appear something I am not. Er, nope, no make up here. Just sun cream as I have rubbish skin. OK, so I wore a bra, so I was lying to him, trying to make my breasts look more appealing than they are really. Ha, yes, I am wearing a bra, but if he owned a set of boobs he would know that if I don't wear a bra the flimmping hurt if I run/walk fast/ride. It is a T shirt bra, not some lacy basque!!!
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erm, what now? seriously?
 
I went to spectate at a clinic a friend was taking part in. I left at lunchtime! To be fair I had to be somewhere else in the afternoon but I was pretty glad to leave. He didn’t do anything I felt very uncomfortable with, but he did insist the horse kept focus on owner at all times, so every time one poor horse just glanced around him, very innocently just curious about his surrounding he got flicked with a rope. The horse had been quite calm but became increasingly wound up. Also I found him a very poor presenter, he was wearing a head set but either he wasn’t speaking into it or it wasn’t working because I couldn’t hear anything he was saying. I went to a Linda Parelli demo last year, not a fan but interested enough to go, and she was an excellent presenter explained to spectators exactly what she was doing, if a rider said something inaudible she repeated it for spectators - I did feel the demo was as much for spectators as riders.
 
Red-1 said:
I took my horse to a different clinic to yours, I think it may have been 2015 though. I had liked the videos, but hated the clinic. It was very much all about Warwick Schiller, which is fair enough I guess, but I also thought it was to the detriment of the horse.

We were stood still in the cold for almost 2 hours, then suddenly they had to do fast turns and cantering, no warm up. One in particular got very distressed, and then came down with colic.

I was supposed to run at my horse a'flailing a whip to see if he was grounded or some such thing. He stood his ground as he and I had a good history, but then I was told that it was because he was shut down so Warwick took over and found that he could scare my horse if he crawled up to him. Not sure what that was about.

Hey, I am just a person, and I possibly just didn't get it, but also, hey, I was on a clinic to learn, so even if I got it all wrong, then maybe it was not explained properly.

He wanted me to do 2 hours of lungeing on a 12ft rope, at canter with quick changes of rein. Apparently that would change my horse. Yep, I thought, it would change him from sound to lame...

I got sick of the sound bites. EG, I was lying to him. ???? Oh, he said I dyed my hair, so I am a liar, as I was trying to trick him to think I was more beautiful or youthful than I was. Er, I don't dye my hair. OK, I was lying because I wore make up to make myself appear something I am not. Er, nope, no make up here. Just sun cream as I have rubbish skin. OK, so I wore a bra, so I was lying to him, trying to make my breasts look more appealing than they are really. Ha, yes, I am wearing a bra, but if he owned a set of boobs he would know that if I don't wear a bra the flimmping hurt if I run/walk fast/ride. It is a T shirt bra, not some lacy basque!!!

I was told how bad my horse was when we started (I thought he was quite good actually) and how much he had improved (I thought he was now confused). Of course, because I did not do the work, as in 2 hours of solid flipping round at canter on the lunge, that is why my horse had not improved...

So, on his videos I see a lot of things I like. I like how he thinks about stuff - on video. But I would never subject a horse of mine to that experience live at a clinic.
Click to expand...

At lot of that same patter was used at the clinic that I spectated at. It's all come flooding back now that you've written about it. Again he claimed that anyone who took offense to "the truth" was over sensitive and looking to be offended etc etc It was a bit of a messiah complex...
 
Red-1 said:
Yep. It is on one of his videos on his subscription service too. You get a month free subscription to have a browse before a clinic. Once you have seen the videos then that is the script you will see at the clinic.
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I honestly dont need that sort of crap in my life, let alone pay for it and I am doubly sure no equine of mine needs it either. what does he say to male clients?
 
Hes maybe calmed down a bit these days, I've purposely avoided his stuff, but he used to have some blazing rows with people on YouTube. Shouting people down and unleashing his supporters who would set about anyone who dared question the methods in the video never mind criticise them. Again I'm going back to pre 2016
 
TPO said:
At lot of that same patter was used at the clinic that I spectated at. It's all come flooding back now that you've written about it. Again he claimed that anyone who took offense to "the truth" was over sensitive and looking to be offended etc etc It was a bit of a messiah complex...
Click to expand...

I did write about it afterwards, but it was so Blah that I did not put it on a blog (I had an equine business website at the time) as my write up sounded rather negative. I just said something along the lines of some you win and some you lose.

Mark Rashid, on the other hand, I have always learned something from his clinics, and felt the horses gained from the experience as well.
 
Mark R is in Scotland doing unmounted Aikido clinics only. I've always missed him when he came over in years gone by and really want to at least spectate at one of his clinics.

I'm still in two minds about going to spectate at Buck Brannanman this June since I pulled out of riding there.
 
I did an unmounted aikido clinic in Colorado, in his home town. It was the first one, and good, but I have also done a lot of ridden clinics (both on my horse, his horses and Kathleen's horse) and IME they were more what I needed. I felt sorry for him as you don't just learn about horses, you learn about yourself, and there were inevitably tears! Poor man!

Life changing clinics. The ones in Colorado you can go to and ride a clinic horse. I have also taken my own horse and also spectated in England, but the Colorado clinics are where it is a, for me. Mind blowing. In a good way.
 
My God that sounds HORRENDOUS. And WTF is all the misogynistic BS about make up and bras about? Think I'll steer clear.

Mark Rashid is awesome though. I am going to the Aibado clinic in Scotland. And am planning a trip to Colorado next year.

I enjoyed the Buck clinic and I like his approach though I also think he can be a bit harsh. He 'offers the horse a good deal' and then if the horse is slow to respond he 'comes in with authority'. Now in Buck's hands that is probably fine because Buck is very precise in his communications with horses and has impeccable timing so the horse will be clear about that is wanted in the first place and entirely clear about why the cue suddenly got magnified to the nth degree. But if Joe Public tried that I can imagine a lot of confused horses getting a lot of very confusing 'with authority' cues which will lead to resentment, fear etc.

I often think 'methods' of trainers separate from that trainers level of skill are unhelpful. I watched a Monty Roberts DVD once and tried join-up with my then pony. After starting the driving away bit it came to me that I had no idea what I was doing! Or more to the point, why I was doing what I was doing. My pony was circling, looking scared and seemed to be saying 'hey what's happening, what did I do wrong'?! He then jumped out of the arena and bogged off. Sensible pony.

That's why I like Mark Rashid so much. He works 1:1 with each horse and rider on an issue relevant to them, finding a solution that they can carry on with together after the clinic. Despite 3 days riding with Buck at the clinic I can't say I still use anything I learnt there. I use the 7 clinics DVDs more. But I still use LOADS of stuff I picked up as a spectator at Rashid clinics.
 
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AE your replies on my Buck thread were a factor in my withdrawal. They really helped and gave me a lot more information. The only people I know who have been a huge Buck fanatics so it was hard to get a true picture. So thank you again for taking the time to reply.

I'm now wondering if I should look I to this aikido clinic. I initially dismissed it as "not my thing" but I'm clearly missing the point! I'll go and have a look at it now - thank you both
 
I am honestly not sure if it is my thing either!!! I am giving it a go with an open mind but please don't go on my recommendation! I have no idea whether it will be good, average or excruciating.
 
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ETA I don't mean 'don't go' - I'd love to have another HHOer there! Hope that did not come across wrong!!

Envious of the Masterson clinic. Please let is know all about it.
 
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CMcC said:
Pleased to read good reviews of Mark Rashid. Am going to a clinic of his with Jim Masterson in Cambridgeshire in October.
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That will be good!

MoC let me know about a Masterson weekend in Scotland this year (without MR or Jim sadly) and I quite fancy that. Please do a report once you've been :D<--- pleading smile
 
Ambers Echo said:
ETA I don't mean 'don't go' - I'd love to have another HHOer there! Hope that did not come across wrong!!

Envious of the Masterson clinic. Please let is know all about it.
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Ha ha I knew what you meant. I've tagged it on FB and will see closer to the time depending on how much leave from working have left!
 
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