pistolpete
Well-Known Member
I know of two horses he started and both have continued to be quirky and difficult. Probably not his fault but certainly can’t recommend.
Warwick Schiller
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sbloom
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Might shift the odd opinion on TRT.
daydreamer
Well-Known Member
That is a real shame and I am quite surprised. I have watched some demos and done some things in person and always found him very helpful.
I did all the groundwork with mine following his videos and then Jason did 4 weeks of riding away with him. I have never had anything to do with youngsters and mine is now very straightforward and everyone comments on how well behaved and easy he is. Some of that is down to his temperament but he is quite sensitive and intelligent so it could have gone wrong. I don't think much of it is down to me!
Like other people have said not every trainer suits every horse or every person.
SussexbytheXmasTree
Well-Known Member
I thought that was disappointing but I’ve not seen anything in any of the training videos or demos that do anything to punish the horse or use methods (at least to my eye) that are abusive.Bei Facebook anmelden
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Might shift the odd opinion on TRT.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
I think that would be true of most who have made similar statements.
Miss_Millie
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Might shift the odd opinion on TRT.
I had to set his adverts to mute/ignore as I was getting bombarded by them. I'll admit that I don't know him or his work, but the little I saw of it reminded me of Parelli, which was an instant turn-off. Lots of flooding, constantly moving the legs etc, not nice.
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Caol Ila
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Might shift the odd opinion on TRT.
That's an odd thing for him to post on the interweb. I mean, why would you (as like a professional trainer) write that? Sometimes, it's better to not stick your oar in the water.
My horse sometimes has her mouth open whilst being ridden, because it's stuffed with half of whatever bush she's managed to grab, but I think context might be a thing here.
I also get deluged in ads for TRT (among other things, but he wins FB algorithms). I've seen a little bit of the free content, and it's not daft. But it's not revolutionary, either. From what I can glean, it's not a dissimilar idea to Mark Rashid and Schiller and other people (many Western trainers...it's old skool there) -- kind of getting to the mind via the feet and creating a bend, which can sometimes help de-escalate a situation. If the horse is softening and bending and that's something you can access even when it's scared, it's not braced and trying to run away.
I tried to use Schiller's videos to help with Fin's hacking alone issues. I even commenetd on one of his FB posts. His ideas came apart for us because Fin is quick and unpredictable. Warwick says you go out a short distance, then turn around before the horse plants or spins or whatever. The moment its ears give you a warning sign, you turn back. But I don't know at which point on the yard driveway he's going to slam on the brakes and say no. Can be anywhere. And he doesn't give you much warning. Not enough for our shitty human perception (mine anyway) to process it. He can be bopping along, all relaxed, then flip to alert/freeze mode in the blink of an eye.
My comment on his post? He was talking about how he would never ever ever push a horse to get past something they were scared of. He would always turn around before it got to that point. 'Cause he's attuned and all that. I asked what he would do if he didn't have that option, like if he didn't have his own ranch out in California and could therefore run into all sorts of weird problems on a trail that you had to get past because you have nowhere else to go or a long walk home. Sometimes, sh!t just hits the fan. Especially when you hack on busy roads and popular country parks.
I gave an example involving the knackers lorry passing us on the road, driving like a bit of a twat, and, luckily, Hermosa...He was coming one way, I was going the other way....He was going to pass us no matter what I did....We were too far from the barn driveway to retreat to it. She spun, because it was full of dead animals and even I could smell it with my pathetic human senses, so it must have been horrible for a horse. We had OH as foot soldier, and Hermosa was able to pass it by buryng her head in his back, and we all ran past it together...Speed and power. Anyway.... I used that as an example because there was no way out of that situation other than by finding a way to man up and deal, quickly...'cause the real world is awkward like that. No time for slow horse training and certainly nowhere else we could have gone.
He never answered.
Fin still doesn't hack alone. Resignation is also an answer. To go back to Lockie's Zoom call, it wasn't completely useless. I gave him the whole spiel on Fin's crazy background, and he was like, "You should be happy he does anything at all involving ridden work. Many horses with that kind of history won't be rideable at all." Fair. I think that has been a useful thing to keep in mind.
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Peglo
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Might shift the odd opinion on TRT.
Eugh, that is so disappointing. I like his videos and he explains things in a way that I find easy to understand. His clips are also a few minutes long which I prefer to those that take 10 minutes to say the same thing but waffle on about irrelevant stuff.
He is not advocating for horses in that response anyway.
eahotson
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He also wrote about the ignorant public complaining about what they saw at the Olympics.We should all defer to our betters I.e him apparently.Bei Facebook anmelden
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Might shift the odd opinion on TRT.
Ceifer
Well-Known Member
As a wider musing I do wonder how many big trainers out there are truly without an ego?
Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
Milestone Equestrian sometimes gets a bit preachy for my tastes (how many big trainers are out there without an ego indeed??), but she did write a fair, comprehensive, and intelligent response to Tristan Tucker's post. Worth reading.
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Milestone Equestrian
I’ve been sent a blog post by Tristan Tucker of TRT method and his perspectives on the Olympics several times over the last few days. I finally read the post and wanted to share my own perspectives....
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eahotson
Well-Known Member
Excellent reply.Milestone Equestrian sometimes gets a bit preachy for my tastes (how many big trainers are out there without an ego indeed??), but she did write a fair, comprehensive, and intelligent response to Tristan Tucker's post. Worth reading.
Milestone Equestrian
I’ve been sent a blog post by Tristan Tucker of TRT method and his perspectives on the Olympics several times over the last few days. I finally read the post and wanted to share my own perspectives....
Red-1
I used to be decisive, now I'm not so sure...
I hesitated to open the thread as I have negative experience with WS. I loved the videos and straightforward way of thinking so booked in on a clinic.
He was awful to me and the horses. Stood for over an hour in the cold, then wizzed round with quick changes of direction. I know of three of the horses who were sick afterwards, one was mine and one got a colic after being worked to a froth.
I feel awful. I did stop engaging half way through as it was simply unfair work, but he said it would be my downfall with the horse, as it needed more lungeing on a small circle with quick changes of direction.
Yes, he did the make up and hair dye thing with me, only... I don't wear any and don't dye my hair. Then it was the fault of my bra??? As in, I was attempting to be more perky than I really am!!!
I was in my 50's. I have little time for such stupidity.
Worse, he just repeated the videos and pretended that my horse wouldn't stand still at the start and how much better he was by the end. In fact, I spent much of the first morning sat on a set of aluminium mounting steps in front of him. Had he not been still and respectful, I'd have been toast!
When my horse was behaving, he cracked his whip to test him.
I too think he changed his methods as he realised he'd make more money that way!
TPO
🤠🏴
That was pretty much my experience as a spectator.
He set about one young horse that was standing quietly. Apparently the horse didn't react quickly enough so he ran and kneed it in the underside of the stomach. He then spent the rest of the day justifying his horrendous behaviour and likening it to the horse no respecting an electric fence. In all my days I've never seen a fence run across an arena to purposely hurt a horse.
Yes to all the misogyny too. Bras, make up, hair dye, clothes, simply being female...it was all dragged out by him. He was a walking stereotypical redneck Australian man coupled eith short man syndrome. He was nothing more than a horrible bully towards women and horses.
I'm not buying his breakdown, epiphany and 180 either. He's good at marketing and the Clinton Anderson approach isn't an overly popular approach so he changed tactic and is now th4 salt of the earth with his ice baths and crystals
Half of thr spectators left in disgust at lunch time. I wanted to leave too but in an awkward scenario was there with a new horse friend from work. I'd arranged the day and felt bad asking her to leave after she'd paid for a ticket and had a crack of dawn start. Meanwhile she wanted to leave but thought this was what I was into. Fair to say on the drive home neither of us were WS fans.
Awful, awful person
bouncing_ball
Well-Known Member
I also think the TRT method is actually fairly aversive. You are teaching a horse that if it lowers it's head and accepts unpleasant things they will stop. The words that accompany the actions dont really match.
Alibear
Well-Known Member
Sorry, this might not be the right post, but the TRT mouth-open comments reminded me. I worry that all this focus on horror—the horse had its mouth open—is how we got to the point where people were strapping their mouths closed in the first place.
I don't know how we can promote giving the horse the right and ability to open its mouth in competition whilst still acting so upset when it happens. I'm not saying don't penalise it or make not be seen as resistance/tension. But how do we encourage enabling to happen if that is how the horse feels?
It's a bit like the safety industry working to the point where reporting faults is seen as a good thing.
I don't know how we can promote giving the horse the right and ability to open its mouth in competition whilst still acting so upset when it happens. I'm not saying don't penalise it or make not be seen as resistance/tension. But how do we encourage enabling to happen if that is how the horse feels?
It's a bit like the safety industry working to the point where reporting faults is seen as a good thing.
Barlow
Well-Known Member
I’ve never really known what I didn’t like about TRT until a trainer I have lessons with occasionally hit the nail on the head “it’s nothing new, it’s not a silver bullet, it’s simply clever marketing”.
TPO
🤠🏴
To be fair there's nothing new under the sun when it comes to horses. Some of it is just new to some people and appears even better if gift wrapped.
That's all a lot of this is. I don't begrudge anyone (well, almost anyone) a living but they've not reinvented the wheel.
I've never used TRT. Even the free stuff and programmes that were on H&C TV bored me stupid to the point I couldn't watch the full thing. [Sensible] friends have subscribed and found it useful.
There is clearly a market for quick result "how to" programmes which says more about the audience than the seller.
SussexbytheXmasTree
Well-Known Member
What does it say about the audience?
I’m always looking to learn more and I don’t think I’m looking for a quick fix. However I’m also not looking to spend years resolving a behavioural issue with a horse either. Most of us have horses as a hobby and will never be in a position to go work for years with a trainer or learn by handling hundreds of horses.
I’m not fanatical about any trainer and always take everything with a healthy dose of cynicism. Over the years I’ve followed/ watched a lot of different trainers. I’m still very much an amateur though.
In the past I’ve done the Monty Robert’s stuff, I’ve done some straightness training, I signed up for the TRT stuff last year and recently thought I’d look into the Miri Hackett stuff as a few people here recommended.
I know the TRT stuff is heavily marketed and no I don’t like the way it tries to squeeze every penny out of you. I also don’t like the way Tristan describes some horsey stereotypes like “the mummy” obviously aimed at silly women and their horses. Maybe he’s a not so secret woman hater? However he does break down his training into small chunks which obviously people including myself find helpful.
I don’t think I’ve seen anything terrible in any of the training I’ve seen so far or any “flooding”. I haven’t watched any of the clinic /tour stuff as everything is monetised and that’s extra so maybe there is stuff in there.
It’s very frustrating as all I want to do is have a happy horse that is pleasurable to be around. To that end I look for solutions. I have yet to find one for the issues with my youngster.
TPO
🤠🏴
What does it say about the audience?
It says exactly what I said; there is a market for quick fixes and people willing to hitch their trailer to every cart rolling through town.
Horses and horse training don't fit into nearly packed "how to" modules and "fix everything" exercises. One thing all good training takes is time.
That's how Parelli got its hold. Do the "7 games" and you're horse is good to go, until the new sign up and dvd package was ready for sale, thrn you had to do that while wearing thr official merchandise.
AShetlandBitMeOnce
Well-Known Member
I think every trainer will have a downside and you have to set your own boundaries and then find someone that will work within them. I am not personally a fan of Miri Hackett, I used to be but then it all became a bit OTT with the Blondie mare and her horses are all seriously obese! That being said, being a bit too airy fairy is rarely a bad thing, I would much prefer that over someone too heavy handed, but if you followed her videos with a horse prone to try and take the p!ss, you'd be up sh!t creek without a paddle real quickly.
I really rate Joe Midgley he is about the only one I don't have a bad word to say about, I have been interested in Ben Atkinsons videos too but they're a little out of my price range really. Steve Young is good for horses with an actual behavioural problem.
I had a groundwork person come to the yard, and despite being really well know in the county, he was god awful so it happens on a smaller scale too. His pressure and release timing was way off, and he only knew steps 1,2 and 3, so when Dex was already capable at doing those things and had the trust in me already, he didn't then know where to go to teach us anything. Instead he fabricated that Dex was argumentative, and he felt he had to start an argument with him so he could correct the behaviour - I am still angry with myself that I didn't collect the leadrope and leave there and then.
I really rate Joe Midgley he is about the only one I don't have a bad word to say about, I have been interested in Ben Atkinsons videos too but they're a little out of my price range really. Steve Young is good for horses with an actual behavioural problem.
I had a groundwork person come to the yard, and despite being really well know in the county, he was god awful so it happens on a smaller scale too. His pressure and release timing was way off, and he only knew steps 1,2 and 3, so when Dex was already capable at doing those things and had the trust in me already, he didn't then know where to go to teach us anything. Instead he fabricated that Dex was argumentative, and he felt he had to start an argument with him so he could correct the behaviour - I am still angry with myself that I didn't collect the leadrope and leave there and then.