Was I a bit harsh on this dog owner?

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pennyturner

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Rode with group of young kids past a couple men with a dog on Sunday. Owner half-heartedly called the dog, which ignored him completely, and he didn't follow up. Dog proceeded to approach the horses (to within a couple of feet), but was not a threat. I stopped and said that whilst our ponies were fine with dogs, they might not have been, and it could have caused an accident. Also that a horse might cave the dog's skull in instinctively, and that he really should have got control of his dog, for the good of the dog if nothing else.

His companion gave me a mouthful for being harsh. Was I out of line, or just pointing out the obvious to a complacent idiot?
He was in breach of the new dog laws after all.

I'm the first to point out to horse owners that it's our responsibility to make sure our horses are safe around dogs, but I do think it should go both ways, and it was his lack of concern that irritated me.
 
No, I don't think you were harsh at all. It's a harsh truth but it's fair. Other horses may not be so good around dogs and could have kicked out, potentially killing the dog, and I think you were right to point this out.
Irresponsible dog owners drive me mad. My horse is fine with dogs but my sharer told me that recently she was hacking out on him and someone let their two dogs run up to him, barking madly and running all around him. The owner had no control over the dogs and couldn't get them back even when sharer asked repeatedly that she call the dogs away. Thankfully he doesn't mind dogs but had it been another horse, the story could have been very different and resulted in either injury to horse and rider, or the dogs.
 
I don't think it was harsh.

I'm quite relaxed when it comes to dogs though tbh. I don't mind dogs being off the lead or even wandering over having a little bark, I always shout out that my horse may kick even though he wouldnt.

However if they come haring over and start getting rowdy or weaving around legs I request them to be put on the lead. I'm all for dogs getting used to horses and vice versa but it has to be safe.
 
No I don't think it was harsh. In fact I've had very similar conversations just about every week this year. Unless you point out the damage a horse can do to a dog owners just seem to think that it's OK for them to jump around and chase horses.

There is a footpath across my field and tbh I am sick and tired of taking loose dogs back to their owners and telling them this very thing. For me at any rate the problem is getting worse, I've never had to have so many 'words' with people before. I've even had 5 people tell me that my field is a public park!!!!!! One of them stated that he had lived in the village all his life and it had always been common land so he could let his dog go where it pleased. That conversation got a bit shouty until I pointed out to him my Thames Valley Police poster informing him that should his dog cause injury to me or my horses he could face criminal charges.

I'm going to put up yet another sign, reminding people that the public footpath is crossing private land. Its like sign city round my gates - there's the do not feed the ponies one, the police one and numerous little yellow ones about the electric fencing. I feel like a need one of those huge roadside billboards!
 
twiggy2 said:
if the dog wandered over and was not a threat then, yes I think you were a bit harsh
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This, if it was not barking or actually running about the horses feet then I don't really see the problem. I ride out with my dog loose, so expect to meet other dogs loose too, I do not expect the owners to call or catch their dog unless it might attack or bother the horse. A horse that is bothered by loose dogs should not be ridden where you are likely to meet them. It's quite easy for a horse owner to de-sensitise their horse to dogs just being around them, a bit harder for dog owners to do the same!
 
burtie said:
This, if it was not barking or actually running about the horses feet then I don't really see the problem. I ride out with my dog loose, so expect to meet other dogs loose too, I do not expect the owners to call or catch their dog unless it might attack or bother the horse. A horse that is bothered by loose dogs should not be ridden where you are likely to meet them. It's quite easy for a horse owner to de-sensitise their horse to dogs just being around them, a bit harder for dog owners to do the same!
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Quite easy for the horse to be desensitised - really???????????? My mare was fine, absolutely fine with dogs - until the day a staffordshire attacked her, chewed off all her boots, bit her legs, belly, backside. At no time did she even attempt to kick it, unfortunately. The very next day I asked a fellow livery to bring her dog down on a lead so that I could try to repair the damage under controlled conditions. It was absolute torture for her and she repeatedly broke away from me. Even 15 years later, while she was ok with dogs she was familiar with, if we came across a strange one she would shake underneath me and while by that time she had given up trying to spin and run, her terror was still palpable. I used to call out to the owners who had them loose and ask them to take hold as my horse was frightened of dogs. Most were incapable of calling their dogs back and the others told me to f off, they could run their dogs loose if they liked.
 
twiggy2 said:
if the dog wandered over and was not a threat then, yes I think you were a bit harsh
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Even with 3 kids under 10 riding the ponies? I know the ponies won't react, but how was he so sure?
I was riding a stallion, and his dog within striking range. Again, I know he won't - we play football with the dogs around the horses on the lawn at home to make sure they're fully OK with them, but it would be pretty normal for an entire (stallioni or mare) to strike out at the predator.

It was his complacency that bothered me. The dog deserved better.
 
fatpiggy said:
Quite easy for the horse to be desensitised - really???????????? My mare was fine, absolutely fine with dogs - until the day a staffordshire attacked her, I asked a fellow livery to bring her dog down on a lead so that I could try to repair the damage under controlled conditions. It was absolute torture for her and she repeatedly broke away from me.
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That's reintroducing dogs after an attack, not desensitising to a new thing. Big difference.
 
pennyturner said:
Even with 3 kids under 10 riding the ponies? I know the ponies won't react, but how was he so sure?
I was riding a stallion, and his dog within striking range. Again, I know he won't - we play football with the dogs around the horses on the lawn at home to make sure they're fully OK with them, but it would be pretty normal for an entire (stallioni or mare) to strike out at the predator.

It was his complacency that bothered me. The dog deserved better.
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Yes, as a walker if I came across a large group of ponies being ridden with some of the riders being very young kids I would expect the whole 'herd' to be trusted and under the watchful eye of someone in control.
I would however call my dog back (if I had one which currently I don't), I suppose your wording in your post is just unpolite, maybe it could have been put better and I would feel differently
 
If politely done, I don't think it's harsh as it could save the dog from harm, or doing harm, in the future. The man may have gone into a defensive mode which people sometimes do if they realise they're in the wrong. Hopefully both men reflected afterwards that it's a good idea to have better control, which only came about because you explained the dangers.

I'm not sure we can always expect even the most obedient, calmest horses and dogs to never have an unexpected reaction. Something else might frighten them, or they get bitten by a horse fly, or whatever; and it only takes a split second for hooves to catch anything close by (e.g. dog) even if the horse doesn't mean it.
 
Unfortunately my horse suffered a vicious attack by two dogs whilst riding on a road past a farm. The two dogs came out and attacked my horse causing her to collapse on the ground while they continued to attack her. I eventually beat them off but she was seriously injured and required veterinary attention. I tried to speak to the farmer concerned who became very abusive so I reported the incident to our rural police officer and the local authority dog warden. The farmer concerned was paid a visit by both the police and dog warden and warned that next time the dogs would be put down and that he should be in control of his dogs at all time and they should not be allowed out of his property unless accompanied and under control. My horse was off work for several months and was never the same with dogs again. However what really annoyed me was to find that other local horse riders had had problems with these dogs but had never reported it.
 
This is dodgy ground really. I wouldn't expect to be reprimanded about my dogs behaviour if she wasn't doing anything wrong. If a horse is scared of dogs and is likely to strike out, they probably shouldn't be hacked out where dogs will be off the lead. It is not our right as riders to go wherever we like and expect everyone else to fall into line. Shared spaces are just that, shared.
Off topic slightly, we must also remember that dogs, like horse, can act out of character and that is not always the fault of the owner. My dog, who was raised in a riding school until she came to live with me and my 2 horses at 6, took.against a pony in woods nearby. It's unusual to meet anyone at all there so maybe she had decided the woods belonged to her. She only barked from a safe distance but the young rider was worried and my husband had to sharply reprimand her to stop the barking. She is now put on a lead if any horses are about, even in the distance.

Sorry for the essay, and I know that riders in the UK are increasingly concerned about dog attacks, but I think sometimes riders can be a bit defensive about their rights to the point it can seem like an attack. I'll also say I've mot lived in the UK for nearly a decade to I'm coming at this from a much more relaxed Irish point of view. :-)
 
Not harsh at all I had a person who put there dog on a lead then took it back off just as I passed . my horse kicked out and sent dog flying I felt so bad but owners reply was owell that will teach him
 
burtie said:
A horse that is bothered by loose dogs should not be ridden where you are likely to meet them. It's quite easy for a horse owner to de-sensitise their horse to dogs just being around them, a bit harder for dog owners to do the same!
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IMO dogs should never go loose in public areas. At home in your own field, sure. I hate loose dogs rushing up to me and my 3yo son if we're out and about, I don't know if the huge dog bounding towards us is particularly friendly, especially if my 3yo shrieked or something. I had a lady in at my work the other day with her 2yo and she was telling me her child is terrified of dogs, probably just a phase but either way she finds it hard enough just to walk past a dog on a lead so people need to understand that NOT everyone likes dogs. I never let our dog off lead outwith our own property.

I also disagree with you saying its easy to desensitize a horse with dogs, no it isn't! I kept my horses privately at my mums house for years, we never had a dog there and the nearest neighbour was a mile away. My horses NEVER saw a dog unless at an event (when they were on leads). Now I have my own dog and my horses are here, they are fine and although they are used to our dog running about and see dogs on leads at events, I dont know what they'd do if a loose one rushed towards them.
 
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Spilletta said:
I'm not sure we can always expect even the most obedient, calmest horses and dogs to never have an unexpected reaction.
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That is so true. One of my most trustworthy ponies nearly killed my new puppy a few years ago. I assumed he was OK with dogs. Turns out he was OK with all dogs outside the field, and my dogs in the field, but not with a NEW dog INSIDE the field. Luckily he was confused by puppy's immediate surrender.

Another quiet driving horse turned out to have a very specific dog phobia. He was fine with all doggy interactions, until one day a friendly black lab trotted out from a farm yard. He reared and span in his shafts and ran half a mile in the opposite direction. It was a quiet lane, and no harm was done, but it could have been very nasty.
 
burtie said:
This, if it was not barking or actually running about the horses feet then I don't really see the problem. I ride out with my dog loose, so expect to meet other dogs loose too, I do not expect the owners to call or catch their dog unless it might attack or bother the horse. A horse that is bothered by loose dogs should not be ridden where you are likely to meet them. It's quite easy for a horse owner to de-sensitise their horse to dogs just being around them, a bit harder for dog owners to do the same!
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I agree, I think a tad harsh to be honest. I would not be very happy if a rider gave me a talking too if my dog wasn't actually doing anything! Although saying that I do always put my dog on a lead when I come across riders, as although my dog is fine around horses, I do not know how other horses will react. I would never forgive myself if she got kicked!
 
OP has said she was riding out and there were "kids" in the group with her.

Dog owner was NOT keeping his dog "under control" i.e. on a lead, and the dog approached the horses and might have posed a threat.

OP gave advice to the dog owner which was not only good sense but might have prevented injury and/or incident on a future occasion, not only to the OP and her young riders with her but also for the dog who might have ended up with its head kicked in.

I cannot see that OP was out of line in any way. The dog owner was obviously not taking due heed of his dog and failed to keep it under close control. It was obvious that children were riding past and he should have got his dog under control and kept it so until the horses had passed safely. Had this dog had a go at the horses - and it was obvious that it didn't respond to commands from its owner - than the outcome could have been truly horrendous. I'm sure that had something happened, and the horses reacted and kicked the dog, then he wouldn't have been very happy with that.

OP you were trying to give good advice and all you got was rudeness back. You just can't help some people, you really can't. If you see this individual and the dog is out of control again, and/or you feel threatened in any way by it, you do have the option to report it to your local Dog Warden. Both I and my livery have had to do this with a local dog which was acting dangerously.
 
I think this is quite a difficult one. OP if you were polite and spoke in a normal tone of voice then I don't see anything harsh in that. If you 'told off' the dog owner then I could see why they might see this is a bit off.

I am a dog and horse owner - in my case my dog off a lead is probably about under the same control as my horse is when ridden - OP I dare say you are a far better rider than I so your horse is better controlled, but I think we could all recognise that a half ton animal can do unexpected things from time to time. Also i KNOW my dog will NOT chase a horse, as she has been brought up with them. So (not saying this is the case in these circa) I don't think it will always be the case that the dog owner is the one presenting the most danger in the situation.

Not sure I have explained that well, and I certainly don't condone any behaviour that allows dogs to attack horses, but I think there are sometimes more perspectives than we may immediately perceive.
 
Horses I have been on have booted a few that went straight for their fetlocks. Most owners said it was fine and they needed to learn but would make sure they put them back on leads in the future. One tried to read the riot act until I pointed out that his dog had drawn blood on a horse worth £150k, would he like to explain to the owner why his horse couldn't run and pay the vet fees? And that was before we got the stage of putting the dog down. The horses price tag scared him into submission and ubfortuntely I wasn't lying about it lol! He always walked his dog in an afternoon after that when he knew we wouldn't be around.
 
Its hard to know. Sometimes you feel you said too much but recently my completely placid non kicking cob was hounded by an off lead husky. It wasn't exactly attacking us but the owner couldn't get control of it at all,and it was diving at us and barking. At one point, the man was trying to hit the dog with its lead, that did upset my horse as he was very close to us! Eventually I jumped off and managed to smack it myself and it bogged off but this went on for a good ten minutes. Perhaps if they had met the OP when the dog was younger, they would have thought twice about having a big out of control dog off the lead in a public area.
 
Yes I did think you wee harsh.
Your horses were fine, Dog was not a threat and not right next to you.
Owner probably only gave the half hearted call and didn't follow it up as he knew the dog wasn't a threat.

Why can people relax and be more positive and not so grumpy and defensive?
 
I can see both sides of this having had well mannered horse trained dogs that were often off lead by bridleways as these bridleways crossed where my horses lived!

My dogs were very horse trained but I do understand that random riders wouldn't know this and there was a problem with uncontrolled dogs in the general area - I think pretty much every rider, including me had experience of dogs chasing, barking and snapping at their horses at one point or another. So I was sympathetic but I did get more than a bit peed off when I was told, often rudely to get those dogs (who were mooching in the hedgerow or more likely looking for fresh piles of poo to eat :) ) on a lead NOW or that they shouldn't be off lead and so on. Thing is, riders need to remember that it's not all about them, they have to share what are often limited resources with dog walkers and others.

In saying that, when my horse was bounced on by a dog while the owner bleated 'he's only playing you know' I wasn't terribly polite. I might have said rude words and I did tell her in no uncertain terms that neither her or her dog would like the results if the horse 'played' back.

I did find that if I did need to warn a dog owner that they could be putting their dog in danger, it always went better if I done from the point of view that they had such a lovely dog that I'd hate to see it hurt if they let it do x, y or z...
 
It really depends on how you said it. I always call my dog if I come near horses/ponies, but many dog owners do not show this respect, luckily for me mine have always been good, even when attacked around the face or legs.
 
I know I'm far more strict about this than others, but in my opinion a dog owner should call his/her dog to heel whenever *anyone* - be it a horse and a rider, another dog walker or even just some lone human taking a stroll - comes close, and only allow the dog to approach the other party if invited to do so. You can never know what the situation of the other party is, and what their reaction to a dog might be. Public spaces belong to everyone, and there are e.g. plenty of not only horses but other dogs and people who are frightened of dogs, some due to previous bad experiences. And if you cannot bring your dog to heel then you have no business taking it to a public place in the first place.
 
Dogs should never go loose in public areas? Absolutely ridiculous. Being in the UK where 'dog parks' are not a thing like America, where are people to exercise their dogs?

Unfortunately not everyone has a 'field' at home. Get real.
 
Unfortunately it's how horse riders get a bad name, coming across as rude and holier than thou, whether OP meant to or not.

As others have said, if the dog wasn't haring up to the horses and barking with intent, then why feel the need to comment to the dog owner at all? No harm done, except maybe the owner feeling cheesed off with being "told off". I'd have been (and I am a horse and dog owner so no bias either way).

Let's all share the countryside together.
 
Frost said:
I know I'm far more strict about this than others, but in my opinion a dog owner should call his/her dog to heel whenever *anyone* - be it a horse and a rider, another dog walker or even just some lone human taking a stroll - comes close, and only allow the dog to approach the other party if invited to do so. You can never know what the situation of the other party is, and what their reaction to a dog might be. Public spaces belong to everyone, and there are e.g. plenty of not only horses but other dogs and people who are frightened of dogs, some due to previous bad experiences. And if you cannot bring your dog to heel then you have no business taking it to a public place in the first place.
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This with jingly, jangly bells on; if you want to let your dog off the lead you must be confident in your recall and/or ensure it's within reach when you come across other people, dogs, horses, whatever. You may have an idea how your dog will react, but you have no way of knowing the reaction of the other person/dog/horse and it need only be back on its lead/under your control for a minute while you pass one another.
 
mytwofriends said:
Unfortunately it's how horse riders get a bad name, coming across as rude and holier than thou, whether OP meant to or not.

As others have said, if the dog wasn't haring up to the horses and barking with intent, then why feel the need to comment to the dog owner at all? No harm done, except maybe the owner feeling cheesed off with being "told off". I'd have been (and I am a horse and dog owner so no bias either
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Agree with this. And "Call the dog warden". For goodness sake, come on! What would you say, "Yes hello, today I saw a completely harmless dog who didn't hurt me, my children or the horses. But please do something!"?
 
And we wonder why horse owners aren't liked .
Owning a horse does not conference the right to go around warning people about things that might go wrong that have not .
No wonder people think we are up ourselves .
 
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