Was i in the wrong or the driver

[lhotse]

http://think.direct.gov.uk/assets/pdf/dg_195239.pdf

BHS produced fact sheet, with hand signals. I think your YO is wrong on this occasion!

 

[Spring Feather]

Arm signals

http://www.hrsa.org.uk/general_hacking_riding_information.htm

 

[ester]

I think the hand signals were complicated by the fact that the rider in front was trying to indicate left while trying to ask the tractor driver to slow down.

A couple of other observations would be that I tend to assume if horses are trotting in single file on a busyish road they are pretty traffic proof. We have a heavy traffic shy horse and one who is steady as a rock and hence we will always go 2-abreast if the road is wide enough and we know something large is coming as it keeps everybody safer. (If the road isn't wide enough we trot to a drive/gateway! )

 

[Tnavas]

http://think.direct.gov.uk/assets/pdf/dg_195239.pdf

BHS produced fact sheet, with hand signals. I think your YO is wrong on this occasion!

I think you need to download this and give to your YO - she was very much incorrect! or BS'ing you about being an examiner

 

[Mince Pie]

I have sent her the link, will see what she says

 

[Fides]

He should have slowed down, horses stil have right of way on the roads and he should have respected your companions hand signals for slow down.

ETA- not sure about the pointing but I'm pretty sure she did use the correct signal for slow down? The forward up and down movement of the hand/arm? Although I do stand to be corrected.

Your YO is wrong im Afraid

Without the clear hand signal the driver ha do reason to think you needed him to slow down.

Fwiw I would have continued to trot as this reduces the change of a spook in general. Also as said by others the YO was wrong to allow such a large gap.

I think you need to download this and give to your YO - she was very much incorrect! or BS'ing you about being an examiner

^This - accident waiting to happen if this is what she is teaching people

 

[Ibblebibble]

I have always used arm out to the side with an up and down motion to ask drivers to slow, it can be seen from in front or behind whereas if you signal in front of your body how can someone behind see that?!
Even though the signals were confusing i would still expect a tractor to slow down when passing horses, if you can find out who he is or where he works then it may be a good idea to contact them.

I hope both you and your horse are ok Op, not a nice thing to happen regardless of who was in the right.

 

[Chestnut horse]

I think your riding pal got to far in front of you, and did not give the slow down signal. You both seem to be at a fast trot so maybe this driver thought you were more experienced than you are....... I would go slower and make sure your leader is not to far in front - I think this is where the problem has come from.

 

[fattylumpkin]

I think it's possible from that distance the driver didn't see any hand signals at all, the rider in front would really have to have hi viz wrist cuffs or should've kept up the signalling longer (and maybe would've helped if the signals weren't a bit misleading if they were noticed).

Otherwise this is a perfectly ordinary encounter to expect on any road, no need to panic, and the driver wasn't in the wrong just perhaps a little insensitive.

 

[Queenbee]

I would like to have seen you ride two abreast, trotting after your friends horse did you no favours. Hand signals were bland.

Yes, Mr Tractor should have slowed down - but you almost set yourself up for a fail.

I'm glad that you're both ok.

Similar feelings. Again, don't know what your hand signals were like but your friends were not clear enough. In addition, it's a simple fact that the thing that we have most control over in this kind of situation is our own actions. It was clear he was not slowing down! it was also clear that you were not going to make the turn! therefore you should have come back to walk, to give yourselves the best chance at containing the situation. That's not to say he wasn't out of order, but it is something you have to expect, some drivers just simply don't have the regard for horses and riders that they should.

 

[domsmith]

I think its been an interesting discussion, and it was well worth having the camera on. you can go back and look what actually happened. i have learnt much from whats been said and watching again.
i would have preferred to have been at a collected walk but we werent. Just as we kicked into trot the chestnut mare cut right across us and collided with me. to correct her she kicked on and set too quick a pace. i was slowing down to collect ready for the tractor and my mate was still bounding on. i will think on next time.
also the route was a last minute change of plan i hate that road!

but accept hand signals were poor and rushing, i accept your judgement.

me and horse are totally fine. i wish it had not happened, i dont know how this will affect us in the future.

you might notice no sound, i had to cut it because my language was quite severe after the incident. i also wear a hit air vest and was more concerned about the cylinder going off and makning it worse!(and costing me £15)

 

[Marydoll]

I think its been an interesting discussion, and it was well worth having the camera on. you can go back and look what actually happened. i have learnt much from whats been said and watching again.
i would have preferred to have been at a collected walk but we werent. Just as we kicked into trot the chestnut mare cut right across us and collided with me. to correct her she kicked on and set too quick a pace. i was slowing down to collect ready for the tractor and my mate was still bounding on. i will think on next time.
also the route was a last minute change of plan i hate that road!

but accept hand signals were poor and rushing, i accept your judgement.

me and horse are totally fine. i wish it had not happened, i dont know how this will affect us in the future.

you might notice no sound, i had to cut it because my language was quite severe after the incident. i also wear a hit air vest and was more concerned about the cylinder going off and makning it worse!(and costing me £15)

Continue to hack learn from the mistake and move on. Make sure you and all who hack out with you know how to signal properly, and communicate with each other, its a blip, a learning curve, treat it as such.

 

[Ibblebibble]

i had a similar experience on a narrower lane, 7.5t lorry too busy looking elsewhere didn't see me until the last minute, he tried to pass wide and in doing so scraped branches of the hedge down the side of the lorry making an awful racket which panicked my girl, she tried to get up on the verge but tripped and went down on her knees, luckily i stayed on but it shook us both up, she's still ok on the roads and is really no worse than she was before with lorries and such ( she's not brilliant but never was lol) brave pants on and you'll be fine

 

[Kat_Bath]

I'll back up the one person who has suggested long sleeve hi viz. Or, light coloured clothing. everything was too dark, and on a gloomy day.
Your friend needs to consolidate her hand signals too-they were very flappy and confusing.

Also, something to consider, if you ever have to signal, I recommend bridging your reins-I find it gives me a little more security.

IIRC I was taught on my ride & road safety (if I wasn't taught it then, I've picked this up over the years) to slow to a walk to allow traffic to come by you. That way, the car takes less time and distance to pass you. In trot, you're travelling, they're travelling. I admit, this only really applies when they're coming up behind you but in this situation, I would have stopped completely.

Hope you're ok. I have no doubt that the experience, however rubbish, will better your riding and road sense-the bright side of it

 

[stencilface]

He should have slowed down. However we have a claustrophobic traffic shy horse, if it's coming from behind more often than not has no chance to react. I wave them on to encourage to not slow too much if the roads clear as I know considerate drivers sometimes want to crawl past.

If traffic is coming from the front I try to wedge his head behind the lead horses bum, so he doesn't feel the claustrophobic effects as much. On a big road he often doesn't react at all. However if you're by yourself on him ( had him nearly 20 years now!) you have to accept he will possibly spin. That said once he's spun, the big thing is then coming fom behind so more often than not he can cope with it.

There's also the law of sod. Going out on one not bothered you can bet you won't meet anything. If going out on ours that is traffic shy by yourself you can bet you'll meet a fast delivery lorry, big bumbling tractor, mr rattly trailer and all their friends, it's just the way it is

 

[Kat_Bath]

me and horse are totally fine. i wish it had not happened, i dont know how this will affect us in the future.

I cross posted with you and I already mentioned it but I wanted to highlight this bit of your post. Don't let it get to you. Horsey will no doubt be fine. And, if not, take her and some carrots to a tractor yard and she will be fine. Whatever the outcome, you will be fine

 

[fattylumpkin]

me and horse are totally fine.

This is good to hear I hope you don't let the encounter put you off, you'll be in much better shape to keep things chilled now you know how your horse is likely to react. It could make all the difference.

 

[Spring Feather]

Glad you're okay OP. I think this video is great, perhaps you could show it around your yard and discuss what areas should be worked on and what the lead rider should have done in this instance. Prevention is better than cure so having everyone know what directions they need to be giving other road users would be worthwhile, and also giving you all thinking time as to how it should have been done, and how it can be managed better in the future. However, the lead rider may not like that, because I can't say it was her doing that this happened, but she most certainly did not help the situation.

 

[Mrs C]

Glad you're ok OP. Your friend may not have made the correct signals but tbh I don't think lot of drivers know hand out to the side and up and down means slow down anyway! It was clear to me she was saying slow down and we will turn off out of the way. Yes you could have tucked your horses head behind hers but these things happen so quick its understandable you both wanted to get them down the turn off. Bad driving in my opinion x

 

[TheSylv007]

^^^
This, definitely.

I also agree with this, he showed no consideration at all and as horses are vulnerable road users (according to the Highway Code) he should have slowed down. Glad you're ok and it wasn't any worse

 

[Spring Feather]

Out of interest; does anyone on this thread drive tractors towing wagons? I do and if the wagon is heavy then my big 100bhp tractor cannot do more than 30kms per hour. What's that in mph? 15 or 20? Once you slow a tractor and trailer unit down it can take a while to get it back up to speed again and you can then become a hazard on the road if it's a relatively quick road. Not saying this guy couldn't have slowed down a bit, but I think you need to look at this from everyone's perspective, not just the horse riders.

 

[jrp204]

The tractor was way too far away to notice those attempts at hand signals. TBH it looked rather like an animated conversation going on. When the tractor was close enough to see there were no attempts to slow it down. The road was wide and there was a verge which could have been used.

 

[Queenbee]

The tractor was way too far away to notice those attempts at hand signals. TBH it looked rather like an animated conversation going on. When the tractor was close enough to see there were no attempts to slow it down. The road was wide and there was a verge which could have been used.

I thought the same re animated conversation

 

[kizmund]

Just thinking from the tractors point of view. If I saw a pair of horses coming towards you on a main road at a stonking trot, the lead rider is waving their arms about, not at all concerened about only having one hand on the reins then I too would probably just drive by thinking they were confident and horses were traffic proof. In fairness to him he also probably didn't see that you had come off, it looked like you just slipped off the side and landed on your feet?

However, if I saw two horses approaching, two abreast at a walk. One rider putting her arm out to the side and moving it up and down to alert me to slow then signalled for the junction most people would happily slow right down if not stop and would wait while you trotted or quickly walked to the junction. IMO the speed of that trot on that road was too quick.

Easy to say in hindsight though!

 

[Bojingles]

Really glad you're both OK. Thank you for posting the vid - it's been an interesting discussion. I don't really have anything to add to the advice, and I know only too well how easy things look in hindsight, the only thing I would say though is that I wouldn't fancy riding any inexperienced horse down that road and would avoid it even on a traffic-proof one. Onwards and upwards though, a learning experience and as others have said, perhaps expose her to some tractors in a more controlled environment if you can

 

[cauda equina]

Ironic that this all happened next to a roadsign which reads : PLEASE DRIVE CAREFULLY

Glad you are both ok

 

[Tobiano]

OP, glad you are ok - its horrid to come off in those circs. Thank you so much for posting this - it has certainly made me think: I shall brush up on my hand signals now.

The thing that is really interesting that occurs to me is that it is all very well knowing the signals and the drill for nannying an inexperienced horse on the road - but horses DO do funny things and it is pretty typical that just at the time the tractor came along your friend's horse had been doing something silly and hence you got separated. Equally, the difficulty in the heat of the moment between deciding whether to indicate left or use the right arm to indicate to slow down - obviously you can't do both at once!

It has been really helpful for me, to think about that 'drill' and sticking to it come what may despite what the horses are getting up to.

And i think the tractor driver was an idiot. Very glad you are ok.

 

[Spring Feather]

..but horses DO do funny things and it is pretty typical that just at the time the tractor came along your friend's horse had been doing something silly and hence you got separated.

You're so right! When you came out riding with me last year, I don't know if you remember but my horse, my good horse, my horse I have owned for 9 years and ridden probably 2,000 hours and who never does anything wrong, would not walk next to that metal road barrier when we were coming down the hill. Typical that some vehicles were coming up and down the hill, lucky for my horse though! I would have tackled that nonsense immediately but as vehicles were passing it was not the time to be having a barny with him on the road. I did however take him back round there a number of times afterwards and the stinker was his usual perfect self and didn't care about the barrier. Sometimes you just have to suck it up.

 

[Ellibelli]

OP - Glad you are ok. I guess we must have some very sensible and intelligent tractor drivers around here - I have NEVER seen a tractor go past a horse on the road at that speed and the driver should know better!

 

[Pebble101]

the lead rider is waving their arms about, not at all concerened about only having one hand on the reins

That's probably part of the problem - if that had been me I would need both hands on the reins fairly early on, not signalling to tractors at the last minute. Around here there is always somewhere to pull in to safety (we have some very deep drainage ditches to avoid) but it does mean the tractors have to slow down for a short while. I will always make my way to the nearest 'pull in' even if it means turning round, it's what suits my horse as he is better if the monsters come from behind rather than towards him. However our roads aren't as busy as the one in the video and