Was it low grade laminitis?

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Hutch02

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Hi all

My 16.3 warmblood cross has been lame three times within the last two and a half years. He was firstly lame on right fore and vet thought he had pulled a muscle. After a period of rest he came sound and we never got to the bottom of the cause. About 13 months later lame again on same leg. After three trips to vet, xrays of fetlocks and neck, whole leg nerveblocked out (which did not improve lameness) and various scans vet still did not get to the bottom of it. He came sound again and with time off and was brought back into work with the agreement that he would have a bone scan if he went lame again. Eight weeks ago he went lame on his left hind. Vet convinced it was bone spavin as positive to flexion, but xrays showed no arthritic changes (he is 13). We agreed to give him a bit of time and if he did not come sound he would go to newmarket. Each time he was shod after going lame my farrier found blood in his white line, and each time I asked the vet if he was sure he did not have laminitis. I even asked the vet to xray hooves eight weeks ago but was told it was not laminitis (blood at toe in white line again) and he did not need hoof xrays. Four weeks ago he could hardly walk (he was only out 2 to 3 hours a day) and yes you have guessed it, he had acute laminitis. Hoof xrays showed rotation of all 4 pedal bones. I have asked my vet if laminitis has been the problem for the last 2 odd years (largely kept at bay with the danillon and box rest that he has had, plus the intervening winters) but vet does not think so. He has always been hard to keep weight off and has always been quite cresty. I really do believe that low grade laminitis has been the cause of all these unexplained lamenesses. Any one out there had similar experience?
 
Had he had raised digital pulses at all? Also, would your farrier not have mentioned it to you if he suspected LGL?

Hope he's better soon x
 
Hi, no he did not have any of the normal signs of laminitis. Even when he had the acute attack his pulses were only slightly raised. Farrier kept saying the blood in white line was laminal tearing which vet said could happen for various different reasons. If you google laminal tearing all of the hits are about laminitis! I don't think farriers can give opinions as they are not vets, and as my horse was under the vet, the farrier was not really in a position to
 
Hi, no he did not have any of the normal signs of laminitis. Even when he had the acute attack his pulses were only slightly raised. Farrier kept saying the blood in white line was laminal tearing which vet said could happen for various different reasons. If you google laminal tearing all of the hits are about laminitis! I don't think farriers can give opinions as they are not vets, and my farrier was aware that my horse was under the vet.
 
I always ask for and respect the views of my farrier, they are after all dealing with feet all the time and will often see changes in the hoof that they deal with when shoeing.
In your case I am surprised the vet did not do x rays of his feet earlier as more lameness is caused by problems in the feet than anywhere else the problems could have been caused by an inbalance that was not seen without x rays.
 
There are unfortunately plenty of farriers who cannot recognise sub-clinical lamintis and probably even more vets. They wait for it to go critical before giving laminitis as a diagnosis. Of course it's a spectrum disease ranging from very minor to shoot-it-now.

Your horse had laminae which were damaged, which was clear from the blood in the white line. They don't pull people's nails out as torture for no reason, laminar tearing hurts like hell. So of course your horse's lameness could have been, and in my opinion probably was, weak laminae all this time.

They often go lame on one leg first, the "signature foot".

I do hope that you get him right. I recommend testing him for Cushings and Insulin Resistance to try and explain why he has weak laminae.

As regards others with similar experiences, there are several on this forum, including one or more who had a long term diagnosis of navicular until she worked out that the horse stayed sound if she treated it as a laminitic.
 
I agree with cptrays. Your horse was showing typical signs of LGL. I too have experienced vets missing these warning signs. Obviously they would never admit they may have been wrong in the past as the rotation may well have been prevented if they had been more on the ball. If your horse has rotation in all four feet it is highly unlikely to have happened after just this one acute attack of laminitis, sorry to say.
 
Thank you all for your responses. I too have been struggling to understand why vet did not xray hooves. I also agree that the rotation is not the result of one acute attack! I also agree that vets miss lgl. I am so angry because my instincts have been telling me what was wrong but vet didn't agree with me!! He is due to be tested for cushins and IR and my instincts tell me that he will be positive fot IR. My main priority is to get him better and then heads will roll!
 
Did you ever take bloods?
Bloods are the only way to tell you if it is low grade laminitis - all the other symptoms would not be present if you had caught it that early.
 
Thank you lucky horse shoe. He did have bloods taken this time last year, but he wasn't checked for laminitis. I thought he had colic. Vet said he didn't but did have a temperature of 104 degrees. Vet checked for strangles, but looking back I recall he was slighty shuffling from hoof to hoof which is why I thought it was colic as he just looked uncomfortable and he had been eating crab apples. I now know that horses with acute laminitis run a temp of 104 degrees. He was given anti inflamatories and put on box rest until results came back which were negative for strangles
 
It sounds as though your horse suffers with hyperinsulinaemia (Insulin Resistance).

LGL is something that 'barefooters' have been whinging on about for many years and most of the veterinary profession refused point blank to recognise it.

According to Dr Chris Pollitt, basically the poor control of insulin and an unhappy gut create enzymes that eat the laminae and cause chronic failure.

In shoes - the horse is also weight bearing soley on the hoof wall and that weak connection.

The first thing to do is address diet (as you would with a diabetic person) as I am sure you are already doing.

I don't care about the bumpf on the side of the bag or a shiny 'Laminitis Trust' logo (:rolleyes:) NO feeds over 10% combined sugar and starch, NO molasses or Mogolo, NO rich forage like alfalfa.

He will benefit from a supplement high in zinc (and copper) and lower in iron - zinc produces and controls insulin, whereas excess iron messes it all up.

If he is on restricted grazing and forage - he will need supplementing with vitamin E too.

I would also be giving a gut aid (such as yea-sacc) to help him out.

Be suspicious of ulcers with him too.

You might find this information helpful....

http://www.safergrass.org/

http://www.hoofrehab.com/AAEP_Manuscript.pdf

http://www.laminitisresearch.org/downloads/chrispollitt_PassPollitt&Pollitt1998.pdf

http://www.laminitisresearch.org/chrispollitt_publications1.htm

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/aaep/2006/pdf/z9100106000051.pdf

http://www.talkaboutlaminitis.co.uk/

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=508468&highlight=laminitis

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=507187&highlight=laminitis

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/

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Hi all. Just to give you an update. Horse has tested positive for cushings, only 30 ACHT above normal. He is on one tablet (Prescend) a day. He is only 13 but vet has said that they are finding it in horses as young as 7! Was sound in heartbars last week, another set of heart bars tomorrow and more xrays in 4 weeks. Is out in a small paddock for 2 hours a day. I'm keeping everything crossed!!
 
Doubtful to be honest. Most types of lameness will come sound with rest - just the length of time varies. Much more likely he had minor joint trauma or collateral ligament issues or the like. The pattern you describe does not suggest laminitis at all.
 
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