Was this acceptable?

[Patterdale]

Clinic lesson last week with a top event rider. So he gets this branch and…

No sorry that was someone else ??

Actual clinic lesson last week with a top eventer. Jumping. First off we spend 25 minutes doing deathly dull flatwork which was very taxing on my young horse and totally tired him out. Then at that point, 2 late riders (25 mins late!!) come into the school, opening the screechy slidey door loudly as someone was cantering past making their horse spook. There are now 5 of us. The new horses are wound up to **** and one is rearing. My young horse has his eyes out on stalks and is totally wound up.

Top rider does not send them out. Lets them stay, AND repeats the deathly dull flat exercise for their benefit whilst the rest of us stand and watch. Then makes us join in and redo this deathly dull flat exercise.

At 20 to the hour we finally canter over some poles then jump some very little fences and that’s it. My young horse was v tired by this point and finding it all a big effort which was a shame.

Is it me or was this not on at all?? I would not dream of waltzing into a lesson halfway through and disrupting it, and as a trainer I wouldn’t allow it.

Or am I being a bit precious? I wasn’t happy anyway. And it wasn’t cheap!!

 

[Highmileagecob]

It sounds to be a bit prescriptive, and not tailored to either you or your youngster. Were the late comers late, or had they booked a shorter lesson? Either way they should not have gatecrashed into your lesson. Will you be returning for another session?

 

[meleeka]

Did you learn anything you couldn’t have learnt with a local instructor? It sounds expensive of you didn’t take anything away from it.

If the latecomers had a good excuse I might have let them stay, but they should have then just slotted into the lesson, not had it started again for their benefit.

 

[nagblagger]

Can you write/email your comments to them but with a positive spin, so you can go back again if you want to. Maybe its become so 'routine' for gate-crashers and basic flatwork the instructor has become stale and needs the 'constructive' feedback for their own development.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

No it wasn't acceptable. I think the idea of sending feedback is a good one, as if no-one ever says anything, the pro will think that 'deadly dull' is what people want.

 

[Patterdale]

It sounds to be a bit prescriptive, and not tailored to either you or your youngster. Were the late comers late, or had they booked a shorter lesson? Either way they should not have gatecrashed into your lesson. Will you be returning for another session?

No they were just 25 minutes late..! And no I won’t be going back

Did you learn anything you couldn’t have learnt with a local instructor? It sounds expensive of you didn’t take anything away from it.

If the latecomers had a good excuse I might have let them stay, but they should have then just slotted into the lesson, not had it started again for their benefit.

I agree.

Can you write/email your comments to them but with a positive spin, so you can go back again if you want to. Maybe its become so 'routine' for gate-crashers and basic flatwork the instructor has become stale and needs the 'constructive' feedback for their own development.

I might. They were visiting a venue for a one off rather than a regular thing though.

I was a trainer for many years so I never criticise trainers really as I know how tricky it can be, especially in clinic situations. That’s also why I’ve not named them. But personally I would not have allowed 2 riders to join half way through.

 

[Patterdale]

No it wasn't acceptable. I think the idea of sending feedback is a good one, as if no-one ever says anything, the pro will think that 'deadly dull' is what people want.

I probably will send feedback. But at a jumping clinic, I generally want to jump!!
The flat el was kind of geared towards my horse’s big issue. Trainers always home in on this thinking they can fix it in 20 minutes. So I specifically said at the beginning when ask that he does have an issue (he is a gaited breed and his canter is very odd and not always there) but that this issue is something I’m working on strengthening and it is improving. And that it isn’t something I am expecting to be addressed in the clinic.

So surprise surprise, half an hour of a tricky canter exercise which left my little horse feeling very taxed and tired with little mental or physical energy left for the bit of jumping we did do. And with the latecomers being allowed to interrupt it was just so much the worse.

 

[Upthecreek]

Definitely unacceptable and I would have been very disappointed to. You should definitely let them know how you felt about it. If it’s a jumping clinic you don’t want to spend nearly all the time doing flat work! My girls and I don’t do clinics with top riders any more. In my experience most of them seem unable to transfer their wealth of knowledge and experience in the saddle to instructing. Some have the attitude that they don’t need to do very much as you’re really paying for the privilege of just being at one of their clinics.

 

[Nicnac]

How frustrating! I would have been fuming especially on a young horse. Those lessons aren't cheap either and 5 per lesson is too many. Yes would definitely feedback. As we all know, great riders don't always make great teachers.

 

[Patterdale]

Definitely unacceptable and I would have been very disappointed to. You should definitely let them know how you felt about it. If it’s a jumping clinic you don’t want to spend nearly all the time doing flat work! My girls and I don’t do clinics with top riders any more. In my experience most of them seem unable to transfer their wealth of knowledge and experience in the saddle to instructing. Some have the attitude that they don’t need to do very much as you’re really paying for the privilege of just being at one of their clinics.

Yep I have to say I agree and I think this will be my last ‘top rider’ lesson.

I had a very good one with Geoff Billington before lockdown though. I’d go to him again!

 

[black and brown]

In my opinion, not at all acceptable. In particular, I would have been annoyed that the latecomers were allowed in and the lesson effectively started again with flatwork. Not ideal for a young horse! I agree with giving some feedback so the instructor may think twice should this happen again.

 

[Caol Ila]

It's hard. I am not sure visiting clinicians are as switched on to the individual needs of the horse/rider in front of them, even when you try to communicate it. I do wonder if they are a bit jaded -- so used to clients flapping and rabbiting on about nothing that they just tune out. I recounted my horse's whole weird history, and said that I could count on one hand the amount of times I had ridden him in the arena. Most of which involved walking in, standing and watching people ride for a little while, then walking out. The trainer said, "So, will I set up a jump?"

I was like, "No!" I mean, I'd just spent over five minutes explaining that my horse knows nothing about flatwork. He's as green as the four year old you backed last week. The fact that he has steering and isn't panicking is a huge win.

It would be so easy for someone to have gotten into a real mess. So many people will blindly trust the trainer -- "he thought we could jump, so he must be ready."

 

[Gloi]

If you took your Standardbred my advice would be to look for trainers with at least a passing acquaintance of gaited breeds. I've been to lessons with quite a few trainers in my time and if the horse has anything but w/t/c they can sometimes come up with the oddest ideas of how they want to get the horse to trot or to canter normally.
It's a shame because there is a local instructor I really like but whose ideas really mess up his gaits, though it was much worse with a mare I used to have.

As to your lesson, I wouldn't have been happy at redoing stuff for the benefit of latecomers.

 

[teapot]

Def not acceptable for people to join 25mins late.

As for content, how was it advertised? Jump clinic, flat to jump, poles etc? While we all know jumping is 90% flatwork, you do kinda expect to jump in a jump clinic. Also surely any decent coach (oh wait, here we go again… can those who compete well also teach well?) should be able to assess what’s suitable for the horse in front of them, age, fitness wise etc?

 

[Patterdale]

If you took your Standardbred my advice would be to look for trainers with at least a passing acquaintance of gaited breeds. I've been to lessons with quite a few trainers in my time and if the horse has anything but w/t/c they can sometimes come up with the oddest ideas of how they want to get the horse to trot or to canter normally.
It's a shame because there is a local instructor I really like but whose ideas really mess up his gaits, though it was much worse with a mare I used to have.

As to your lesson, I wouldn't have been happy at redoing stuff for the benefit of latecomers.

Yes it was him. I absolutely agree but sadly trainers who understand or even WANT to understand standies are few and far between..!
I’ve been to Sue Chadwick at camps a few times and she has been marvellous at just understanding he is not a normal horse, and adapting expectations to fit, despite not usually working with gaited breeds. She’s 4 hours from me though..!

 

[LEC]

For all you know their car had a puncture. I have turned up late before and would expect to join in after a quick warm up which I would just do while lesson carried on around me. The big issues as I see it is 5 in a group which I absolutely loathe, trainer not slotting new people in adequately and instead derailing what was going on and it being a boring lesson without trainer either being blunt and saying none of you look safe to jump so hence you are doing basics or not moving the lesson along.

 

[Patterdale]

For all you know their car had a puncture. I have turned up late before and would expect to join in after a quick warm up which I would just do while lesson carried on around me. The big issues as I see it is 5 in a group which I absolutely loathe, trainer not slotting new people in adequately and instead derailing what was going on and it being a boring lesson without trainer either being blunt and saying none of you look safe to jump so hence you are doing basics or not moving the lesson along.

There’s late and there’s half the lesson late..!
We were definitely all safe to jump too ?

 

[Patterdale]

Def not acceptable for people to join 25mins late.

As for content, how was it advertised? Jump clinic, flat to jump, poles etc? While we all know jumping is 90% flatwork, you do kinda expect to jump in a jump clinic. Also surely any decent coach (oh wait, here we go again… can those who compete well also teach well?) should be able to assess what’s suitable for the horse in front of them, age, fitness wise etc?

Jumping clinic. I know flatwork is important, but I can work on that at home. What I don’t have at home is an arena and someone to put the jumps up - hence going to a jumping clinic

Anyway I’ll get over it. It’s just a bloody lot of money!

 

[teapot]

Jumping clinic. I know flatwork is important, but I can work on that at home. What I don’t have at home is an arena and someone to put the jumps up - hence going to a jumping clinic

Anyway I’ll get over it. It’s just a bloody lot of money!

Then you’ve got every right to be disappointed, before you even mention cost imho!

 

[MagicMelon]

I wouldnt have been impressed either, if I was running late I would tell the trainer in advance obviously and also be careful about opening those god awful screechy doors. That was my worry on my first outing to a lesson, horses first ever time in an indoor school so she was pretty surprised by it all. The trainer ulimately sounded pretty dreadful, are they one of these professionals who compete at a high level but are rubbish teachers? I had a lesson with a top showjumper a few years back and he was awful. I didnt learn anything that I didnt from my bog standard £25 lessons with local trainers. Put me off booking training with "top" riders since.

 

[nagblagger]

Or even get some of your money back, they did not provide the service which was paid for.?

 

[Parrotperson]

just because they're a top eventer doesn't mean they know how to teach! What a shame. get your money back if you can