Waterford bits

[melliebobs]

Hi. I'm after experiences of people that have tried waterfords. I've never as I didn't like the look of them. Having said that I don't like hauling my horses mouth when XC or sj. He schools beautiful of the flat so it's not too much a training issue. He gets leany and heavy on his forehand in a universal for any type of shortening/balancing/downwards transitions. in theory a Waterford should improve things but would like to know from people who have used them please. If I decide it's how I want to go I'll be trialling one - possibly the ns jumper. ThanKshatriyas.

 

[Dr_Horse]

I have used the waterford snaffle for a coupple of schooling sessionswhen my old horse started leaning. I only used it a handful of times but I found it very useful. I cannot ride horses that pull/lean as i have fractured 3 vertibrae in my lumber spine. my old horse respected it immediatly and it just helped to keep her 'up' in her frame

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

There seem to be two opinions on Waterfords: (1) they're a "severe" bit and unkind in the extreme; and (2) I seem to recall that back about 10 or so years ago some research was done into them which concluded that they're no worse than any other bit.

I tried one with cheekpieces for my traddie cob who can be strong/pulls and nappy. I found that he either tried to evade the bit by putting his head up and therefore tended to be very hollow and fall out behind; and/or fall out in front in it and it was impossible to achieve a decent outline.

I tried a French Link Rugby Pelham and found he went very well in that; a world of difference in fact. So this is the bit he is ridden in now.

Think for horses that lean/are heavy a Waterford might be a solution in a lighter horse such as TB or WB but with cobs who are far heavier in their movement it is unlikely to prove successful. I've still got mine, I use it very occasionally just to keep my cob guessing.

As for "severity" or otherwise, this bit does need to be correctly fitted. But a snaffle can be a horribly severe bit in the wrong hands due to the nutcracker action, IMO it is a fallacy to try and classify any bit because there are so many other factors involved - basically its not the bit in the mouth its the hands on the reins that is "severe" or not.

But this just my own experience.

 

[only_me]

I think they are great bits. But I usually use the Waterford full cheek snaffle, Ive no experience with a Waterford elevator bit.

I've used them on young horses (usually 4-5 years old) when they have started to understand what xc is all about and are getting heavy in the hand and leaning. Usually would use the bit a couple of times xc and then they stop leaning and getting heavy in the hand (especially when galloping) and then they go back into their snaffles. Only one has been actually strong xc (a 14.2!) and he went into a mcguinnes snaffle which worked well for him.

After a few times in the Waterford they learn to support themselves and have no issues once back in a snaffle. Of course it also is to do with timings and the feel, as a 4-5 year old are not physically strong so they just need to learn to not lean on the hand when galloping, but I wouldnt use the bit if they were starting to lean from tiredness - then it's more of a immaturity issue and they aren't ready for that level of work yet.

If your horse is leaning and heavy in the hand In a universal I would wonder if he is physically fit for the work your are doing with him - a universal should have a lightening action so it could be that he isn't using his backend/body to support himself because he is tired, and the muscles are tired, more so than a leaning issue? How old and fit is your horse? And what level of work are you doing?

 

[melliebobs]

Thanks so much for your quick replies!

My horse is a 16.3 wb rising 7 but only backed at 5. He's fit and works 4-5 times a week with varied work. We did our first ode last weekend and he felt like he could have gone again. He rarely sweats up or blows as he is a laid back chap. He doesn't run away with me but does struggle bringing his back end under him fully and hasn't mastered the classic sj canter. But that's exactly where I struggle in the universal. He goes beautiful in the universal until you ask him to shorten/canter a circle/change leads after a fence. He then sets against me a bit and pulls my arms out when trying to get a decent canter again. I'd love to keep him in a snaffle at all times and he does a lovely dr test in a sweet iron loose ring snaffle getting over 65% every time out so far. I'm far too soft in my hands and appreciate I've probably caused the leaning by not being clear enough in my signals to him. But I just can't ride heavy handed and if push comes to shove he can stay as he is. He's happy in his work and no amount of winning makes me want to unsettle him or fight with him. Although to make jumping safer and go up a class I want to be able to get him on a nice stride more consistently. Which I just don't seem able to adjust him in time at the moment.

 

[Kezzabell2]

Was a life saver for me. My mare came with a mullen mouth Pelham. And used to f off with me as soon as she hit the grass
grass. I spent yrs fighting her to slow her down. Head used to be right in the air

A friend suggested a Waterford Dutch gag and I couldn't believe the difference. She stopped and stopped having head in the air. And we finally started to enjoy life

 

[melliebobs]

Sorry we are doing 80's and about to do a 90 next time out. Probably affiliate and do be90 next year. Shiwjumping British novice.

 

[only_me]

I'd say then rather than change the bit I would put him in a grackle and do more work at home focussing on the shortening and control before a fence.
I think more work using canter poles and placing poles before and after a fence, as well as combination fences set short/long/right strides in between will help him to learn to adjust his stride. Plus maybe some bounces or grid work to help teach him to be quicker behind and to use his body more which would help the shortening.
It sounds more of an adjusting issue and maybe the canter is a bit flat so finds the stepping under and shortening difficult so tries to avoid and then runs on slightly to the fence?

If that still doesn't help then I would try a Waterford and may only be needed for a few sessions before he gets the idea

 

[SpringArising]

I hate them. They can be so damaging to the sensitive skin around a horse's mouth.

If you buy one, put it in your mouth first and pull it around a bit. They can really pinch hard.

My horse's mouth was covered in sores when I got her, which was from being ridden in a Waterford.

 

[only_me]

I hate them. They can be so damaging to the sensitive skin around a horse's mouth.

If you buy one, put it in your mouth first and pull it around a bit. They can really pinch hard.

My horse's mouth was covered in sores when I got her, which was from being ridden in a Waterford.

My mouth would be sore if i put any bit in my mouth - human mouths aren't designed in quite the same way as a horse!!
Unfortunate that your horse got sores from a waterford, personally I've never had horses with sores from the bit. The previous owners must have used the bit too harshly, which could happen with any bit.

But as with all things, its personal choice

 

[DDWexford]

Was a life saver for me. My mare came with a mullen mouth Pelham. And used to f off with me as soon as she hit the grass
grass. I spent yrs fighting her to slow her down. Head used to be right in the air

A friend suggested a Waterford Dutch gag and I couldn't believe the difference. She stopped and stopped having head in the air. And we finally started to enjoy life

Same for me on my old horse. It meant I could be a lot lighter with my hands too.

 

[Goldenstar]

For some horses they are a great for others usually those with big tongues in small mouths they are not so good .
With bitting you have look at your horses mouth conformation and consider it way of going and what you are trying to achieve then choose what you going to try .

 

[Wagtail]

I hate them. They can be so damaging to the sensitive skin around a horse's mouth.

If you buy one, put it in your mouth first and pull it around a bit. They can really pinch hard.

My horse's mouth was covered in sores when I got her, which was from being ridden in a Waterford.

This. Horrible contraptions.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

For some horses they are a great for others usually those with big tongues in small mouths they are not so good .
With bitting you have look at your horses mouth conformation and consider it way of going and what you are trying to achieve then choose what you going to try .

This above.

Any bit is only as good as the hands that use it.

To those who detest them, that is your perogative of course

For some horse and rider combinations they work well, i have seen some horses in bits that quite frankly need changing, but also those whose riders need changing :rolleyes3:

My ideal is 'always prepare to adapt or change, should the occasion arise' which works for me

OP, get an instructor who can help and advise you on this

 

[SpringArising]

My mouth would be sore if i put any bit in my mouth - human mouths aren't designed in quite the same way as a horse!!
Unfortunate that your horse got sores from a waterford, personally I've never had horses with sores from the bit. The previous owners must have used the bit too harshly, which could happen with any bit.

Obviously not, but that doesn't mean that they are immune from pain.

If I put a piece of plain metal in my mouth and move it around it doesn't hurt at all, because the edges are smooth. Waterfords can and do very easily pinch the corners of the mouth because of the way that they are designed.

 

[Wagtail]

The Waterford usually has five nobbles. Each one produces a concentrated area of pressure which can bruise the tongue and trap the thin delicate bars of the mouth. For those who say that it is only as severe as the hands that hold the reins, that is true to a certain extent, but only if you never, ever lose balance or move your hands, or the horse shies, runs out at the jump, bucks, rears, or makes any unexpected movement. If this NEVER happens to you then maybe, just maybe you will not hurt your horse's mouth with this bit.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

So, in the same vein Wagtail, you must also disapprove of doubles and anything ported?
Likewise the use of single reins on bits designed for 2?


OP, as i said before, ask a good instructor to help, Waterfords can and do work well on some horses without causing pinch and bruising as mentioned above. However, they do need fitting and using correctly, as does any bit

 

[Wagtail]

So, in the same vein Wagtail, you must also disapprove of doubles and anything ported?
Likewise the use of single reins on bits designed for 2?

I don't disapprove of ports as the purpose of them is to provide tongue relief. The parts that rest on the bars are smooth and do not trap the jaw bone. I dislike western curb only bits and using gags etc. only on the bottom ring. I am not against doubles because most of the pressure is on the snaffle rein, and so any sharp movement down the rein is buffered by the snaffle rein (though I don't like traditional single jointed snaffles which do not have a curve in them to prevent them digging in the roof of the mouth or trapping the tongue.)

 

[Carefreegirl]

J is very bossy xc, not strong in the fighting sense but just puts her head down and informs me that she knows where she's going and she knows it all :wink3: She also has a very sensitive mouth that splits easily. We had her in a nathe elevator bit last season but after a few days hunting I found I couldnt hold one side of her so we put her in a Waterford 3 ring. Went XC schooling in it and went well. Took her to ALW for the first BE and had it on the second ring (not the bottom) she took off after fence 2 down a slope to a ditch. I was a bit scared of the bit so didn't really check her and she saw the ditch at the last minute, stopped and I flew over her head. Last week at Swalecliffe I put the reins on the bottom ring and all I had to do was close my fingers and she came back to me, no pulling or head down charging (she's built downhill so naturally easy for her) It was the nicest feeling I've had xc on her.
I hate hauling on any horses mouth so for now we'll stick with this bit. Ideally I'd like to go xc in a snaffle but until she stops being such a flippin know it all it isn't going to happen.

 

[Pipsqueak!]

I gallop a very fit ex-racing thoroughbred in a waterford. I find it fantastic. He is naturally the fastest of all our gallopers so I am able to keep him at the same pace as the others without being hard on his mouth. I previously galloped him in a soft pelham with roundings and I so prefer the waterford, I can be much softer with my hands.

 

[xspiralx]

I believe in listening to what the horse tells you.

Personally I really like a Waterford and currently it is what I SJ my sports horse in. He is VERY fussy in his mouth and is inclined to back off the bridle and go hollow. But when jumping he can get strong - the Waterford snaffle gives me the ability to hold him and check him but he is still happy to take w contact with it.

Believe me, he would let me know if he found it painful or didn't like it!

 

[monkeymad]

My mare is also incredibly fussy in her mouth, and dislikes nose/poll pressure. I have tried numerous bits and nosebands to establish more control/ability to shorten strides xc. I can assure you, if she dislikes/is uncomfortable she lets me know violently! She does not feel a waterford is the work of the devil!!

 

[Goldenstar]

You have to listern to the horse .
I hate Dutch gags ( pessoas I call them) with a passion , but H wears one for hunting he goes well in it and jumps well in it I hate it but with him it gave us the right amount of control.

 

[Nightmare before Christmas]

Some go well some don't. Mine won't go near a fence in one and he's never said no to anything! On the flat he goes well in it. I use a rubber Pelham on him now all the time

 

[Bojingles]

I tried a French Link Rugby Pelham and found he went very well in that; a world of difference in fact. So this is the bit he is ridden in now.

Think for horses that lean/are heavy a Waterford might be a solution in a lighter horse such as TB or WB but with cobs who are far heavier in their movement it is unlikely to prove successful.

For some horses they are a great for others usually those with big tongues in small mouths they are not so good .
With bitting you have look at your horses mouth conformation and consider it way of going and what you are trying to achieve then choose what you going to try .

I believe in listening to what the horse tells you.

Agree with all this. My heavy, leany cob leans as much on a Waterford as anything else and I think it's simply too big for her mouth as well. She now goes in a Swales Pelham with a lovely light contact. Horses for courses.

 

[Tnavas]

I hate them. They can be so damaging to the sensitive skin around a horse's mouth.

If you buy one, put it in your mouth first and pull it around a bit. They can really pinch hard.

My horse's mouth was covered in sores when I got her, which was from being ridden in a Waterford.

Totally agree, they work because they hurt. Each ball has a pin point pressure which effectively increases the pressure per square inch. Then each time the horse is turned the bit bounces across the bars of the mouth.

If they horse is putting its head down, a running gag may be ideal.

Bits vary in severity according to the riders ability. I do disagree with the person who said single jointed snaffles were severe because of the nutcracker action, this action is limited by the width of the mouth.

To date I've never had a problem with a single jointed snaffle, I did though with a double jointed, this has to be fitted so carefully as each of the joints can sit on the bars, bruising and cutting them.

 

[Wagtail]

I do disagree with the person who said single jointed snaffles were severe because of the nutcracker action, this action is limited by the width of the mouth.

To date I've never had a problem with a single jointed snaffle, I did though with a double jointed, this has to be fitted so carefully as each of the joints can sit on the bars, bruising and cutting them.

My problem with the single jointed snaffle is those which don't curve enough can bruise the roof of the mouth. It is not the nutcracker action I am objecting to. My favourite bit is actually a single jointed snaffle, but it must be shaped correctly like the neu schule demi anky:

Not like this one:

 

[Wagtail]

I do disagree with the person who said single jointed snaffles were severe because of the nutcracker action, this action is limited by the width of the mouth.

To date I've never had a problem with a single jointed snaffle, I did though with a double jointed, this has to be fitted so carefully as each of the joints can sit on the bars, bruising and cutting them.

My problem with the single jointed snaffle is those which don't curve enough can bruise the roof of the mouth. It is not the nutcracker action I am objecting to. My favourite bit is actually a single jointed snaffle, but it must be shaped correctly like the neu schule demi anky:

Not like this one:

 

[Annagain]

I'm in the pro camp when it comes to my boy but agree you have to listen to the horse. It took me 18 months to find the right bit(s) for him. He's a 16.3 IDx something, is incredibly strong and has a big tongue with a slight twist in it and huge lips.

He HATES anything with a single or double joint, gets his tongue over the bit, throws his head around so much he hit me in the face twice and pulls like a train. He even reared when I tried a Neue Schule elveator on him. He went well in a pelham for a while (although still pulled quite a lot and i alwayts felt he could still GO in it if he wanted to) until the curb chain started rubbing him really badly. We changed the curb chain for a leather one, added a gel guard but once it rubbed once he had a weakness and it kept happening which then made the head tossing worse. The point here is that I know when he's uncomfortable as he tosses his head really badly. He really tells me if he doesn't like a bit.

I was very scared of his strength and it was stopping me doing things I wanted to do with him. He has a big thing about being left behind so I wouldn't do fun rides as I was frightened he'd see horses up in front and go galloping after them and I'd have no control.

He now has a mullen mouth hanging cheek snaffle for flatwork and sedate hacking, a hanging cheek waterford for hacking in a larger group when I need more brakes and for very exciting stuff he has a waterford 3 ring gag with 2 reins. He never tosses his head in any of the bits and often salivates well in them. More importantly, in the waterford gag I barely have to touch the reins to stop him. I think he likes the fact that the flexibility of the waterford means it can mould around his tongue rather than having a nutcracker action where the joint hits his pallet and pinches his tongue.

He's not allowed to jump any more and dressage isn't his thing so a fun ride is our only chance to get out and about. Without the waterford neither of us would be able to enjoy them. Your horse might hate it, but (sorry to sound dramatic!) it might change your lives. It gave me back my horse.

 

[nervous nelly]

I tried one in my horse yesterday he learns on my hand when jumping on theflat he is in a plain snaffel he respected it from the word go it meant I could come into my fence on a nice even canter instead of having to hold him constantly and being unable to takea pull to alter my stride. We last jumped in the kimblewick which gave me the same control in between the fence but he went all stuffy over his fences because it was too strong for him. I would rather ride softly in the Waterford instead of using a softer bit and being on his mouth the whole time