Waterford Gag and flash doesnt work what next..........

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Stacie_and_Jed

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I am struggling with a bit for my big boy when out hunting or XC. He is a Warmblood X Cob and is bulit as it says on the tin for this type! I currently ride in a waterford gag on the 2nd ring with a flash but i went out Saturday and he was ridiculously strong and he ended up with a sore on the side of his mouth where the bit rubbed because me and him were both hauling at it all morning!

I ride in a loose ring sweet iron snaffle for schooling/dressage and hack in a happy mouth gag (sometimes the snaffle if its a hot day or he has a belly full of grass) but i just cant seem to find something for hunting and XC that he cant pi$$ off with me in :(

Im reluctant to put him in anything stonger and end up with a horse with a dead mouth!

HEEELLLPPP!!!

x
 
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Posie

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If you've tried all the schooling exercises etc, a tom thumb with dr bristol mouthpiece worked wonders on one of mine, the other i found a ported kimblewick with slotted cheeks to do the job. Vaseline the mouth before you bit up!
 
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chestnut cob

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Agree about Vaseline. Try the bottom ring of your gag too - my big horse is like a train but I can stop him in that.

Also, don't pull until you have to. What happens if you actually let him go once they are galloping and only pull / try to slow up when you need to? If I pull on mine all the time it just ends in a battle or a tantrum from him. I have to let him go when they're moving and with the gag on bottom rein I know I can pull up when I need to. I also use bit guards which seems to help.

Could try a grackle too though I prefer a flash for mine.

You could try a pelham (sometimes hunt mine in pelham with 2 reins - it's easier than you'd think once you get used to it), a Myler long shank combination, a Cheltenham gag (can you get a CG with something like a waterford mouthpiece?). I wouldn't worry about the dead mouth - you'll get that if you haul on him constantly but if you use something v strong that you know you can stop in then you shouldn't need to use it all of the time. FWIW, mine hunts in a waterford gag but schools, hacks and fun rides in a French link. He has a lovely mouth away from the hunting field!!
 
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Stacie_and_Jed

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Thanks Posie & Chestnut ill definately use vaseline - i hadnt thought of that.

Chestnut if i didnt haul at him he'd be infront of the Master before i knew it haha! He hates being behind and constantly tries to get ahead I do give him his head when i feel i can but as soon as he realises he has it he's in the next county if i dont have time to catch him! He loves hunting and gets very enthusiastic when were on the move.

I think ill get on the bit bank and order a CG and a Tom Thumb/Dr Bristol and see how i get on with those :)

Thank you for your suggestions - i will be sure to report back

x
 
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chestnut cob

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Only one comment about a Dr Bristol... I tried my big horse in one for hunting once... we overtook EVERYONE and got a real telling off (I had absolutely no brakes whatsoever!). I hunt my little horse (15hh Connie x type) in one - he goes in a Happy Mouth FL normally, which I have also hunted him int but he just needs a tiny bit more than a plain snaffle.
 
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Stacie_and_Jed

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chestnut cob said:
Only one comment about a Dr Bristol... I tried my big horse in one for hunting once... we overtook EVERYONE and got a real telling off (I had absolutely no brakes whatsoever!). I hunt my little horse (15hh Connie x type) in one - he goes in a Happy Mouth FL normally, which I have also hunted him int but he just needs a tiny bit more than a plain snaffle.
Click to expand...


Mmm perhaps i wont try that then haha! Perhaps the CG is the way forward. A friend of mine has a Jumpers Neue Schule Jumpers bit which i was going to try. They come with a waterford mouthpiece too.......
 
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spotty_pony

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Have you tried using bit guards with the current bit? Does he actually open his mouth? One of my boys has a large tongue and is actually STRONGER with a flash noseband as he finds it uncomfortable! He is much better without the flash.
 
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Sunshine8

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I am sure you have tried this but how about giving and taking ie intermittent contact as usually a solid contact will just result in the horse setting its mouth/neck against you

Also smile - I find it helps or at least you look like you are enjoying it! I used to do that showing. The stronger the horse got the bigger the grin :D
 
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KatB

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Put a back strap on the top ring of the gag. A spur strap or flash strap will do the job, and I find that works very effectively for adding to the brakes and taking pressure off the mouth.
 
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Bubbles

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KatB said:
Put a back strap on the top ring of the gag. A spur strap or flash strap will do the job, and I find that works very effectively for adding to the brakes and taking pressure off the mouth.
Click to expand...

^^ what she said. I tried this and suddenly I had a horse that was controllable, but he really really didn't like it :D
 
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Harry44

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I went from a Waterford Gag and flash which did nothing to a Cheltenham gag and grackle that was really good - hope you find something that works otherwise it's no fun! x
 
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tractor

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Another vote for a Cheltenham! It's the only thing that gives me any control at all. Also agree with the flah comments, I find it's easier to let them open their mouths a bit occasionally than to have them fighting a flash all the time....

Also, this can be scary but it's worth doing - try to work out where he's running TO - I have a 16.3hh cob, he's hunted for 12 years - he knows the job inside out but it was only a few years ago that I realised that his pulling out hunting all related to where I was in the field. He's generally frightened of things behind him, and is worse when he's right at the back. He is better in the middle or near the front - he pulls less. I guess what I'm trying to say is dont just think "I can't stop" - think "why can't I stop" - I find that if I relax and don't think too much then he stops anyway.

Confusingly, he doesn't pull when out on point or totally on his own somewhere....
 
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RunToEarth

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I have a Cheltenham gag with a Waterford mouthpiece, it changed my life! Try and borrow one before you buy as they're quite expensive. I don't like Dutch or American because they have such a restricted action.

Also, if he has a sore mouth piles cream is good to shrink cuts :)
 
Roasted Chestnuts

Roasted Chestnuts

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I'd look at a tomthumb, a cheltenham or a myler combo. The combo stopped my mare in her tracks and she was a tanker!! Works on the nose, has a curb and the mouth.

Pony doesn't need anything other than a snaffle at this point in time but the above three would be what I would try for a strong horse :)
 
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