WATTON HORSE SALE

[mylord]

Well, looks like Watton Horse Sale has been cancelled. I just wanted to say that the way most (not all) gypsies and dealers etc treat their horses is awful and Watton is no exception...however, now that everyone has complained and got the sale cancelled (because we are all such caring horse lovers), who now is going to have a chance to buy and rescue these horses from the gypsies/dealers etc...would you approach them off the street or even come across them regularly? Do you think the RSPCA etc are going to approach them off the streets too or see what happens outside of the sales? The very fact that these sales are being stopped, is not stopping the cruelty some of these horses endure..if anything it makes it worse because we won't be there to help as we won't be seeing it anymore. I don't think the sales should be stopped as then no horses will ever get rescued and bought by caring people (me included). Well done to all of you who thought you was doing good by getting them banned...did you really think banning the sales will stop any horse cruelty or neglect!!??? I think not. The fact that these poor horses stand at sales gives them some kind of hope of finding a new home with someone who will love and care for them...what hope do they have now?

 

[zoeshiloh]

Having been to Watton several times, I can only say that on each occasion I saw very little cruelty or neglect. On the whole, Watton seemed to be a platform for the traveller community to showcase their horses, many of which exchange hands for significant amounts of money - tens, and even hundreds of thousands. Where the money comes from, one can only speculate, but there is no doubting that the majority of horses at Watton have been well cared for. Just because they do not have a stable, rugs and bulging haynets every night does not mean that they are not well looked after. Not all tethered horses lead miserable lives. Not all wooly, ungroomed horses are badly treated.

Yes, I have seen some cases of abuse and neglect at Watton, but they were very much in the minority. In fact last time I went to the sales, you could not buy a horse for less than £1000, and most were priced considerably more than that.

In my opinion I have seen far worse cruelty cases going through the ring at Brecon, Melton Mowbray and Cambridge.

Watton is, and always has been a traditional get-together for travellers, and it is a shame that some do-gooders have tried to put an end to it. I am so fed up with those that say they must "rescue" horses and ponies from what they think is a miserable existance, ie, tethering, just to take them home, overfeed them and cause more problems like sweet itch and laminitis.

 

[siani1989]

i enjoy going to the sales because i rescue babies

. like a 9 mnth old hat rack who is now 3 yr old and gawjus

 

[chunkytfg]

In a way i agree but from the perspective of a resident of watton i can only say i am pleased.

Everytime they come into town my poor pony gets locked up tighter than the gold at fort knox and he hates it.

The entire town has the same opinion of it. Tesco's has bouncers on the doors other shops just dont even bother opening!!

 

[AlexThe Arab]

But surely if the sales attract do gooders who think they are rescuing a gypsy pony, you are fueling the market so that more of these poor ponies are bred

There are 1,000's of ill treated ponies, not all are seen at sales, not all are owned by gypsies

Do you live near Watton? One of the main reasons against the sale taking place is the effect it has on the local community - NOT horse welfare.
I've not seen the RSPCA intervene at the sale, ever

 

[mylord]

I agree with everything you say. That is why it annoys me. Previous threads and forums have been against sales. I am not saying that they are all treated badly, this is not the case at all. I enjoy going to Watton, it has it's moments and not always good to see certain things! But this is the real world and I just wish people would wake upto it and smell the coffee.

My main point being: If people think these sales are so bad and the horses are suffering, why try to ban them...the horses won't be treated no different outside the sales than in them. But, that is juts my opinion..and yes Melton & Cambridge are no better than any other sales..there will always be some good horses that are unfortunate to end up there and equally some poor horses that haven't had the best of lives upto that point.

 

[AlexThe Arab]

[ QUOTE ]
Having been to Watton several times, I can only say that on each occasion I saw very little cruelty or neglect.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really ?

Do you walk round the lorry park, there are plenty of pitiful creatures there

Most of what goes through the ring belong to joe public and are not gypsy stock.

 

[mylord]

Yes, you have a point. I don't live far from Watton and I do agree that it is very inconvenient to the people and businesses who are in the vicinity...I wouldn't like it either. I am just really making a point on sales in general to be honest.

 

[crazyponys]

watton will be back next year
they have been offered several new sites.
the new site will be posted n the horse and hound when finalized.

 

[mylord]

Yes I have been round the lorry parks and yes there are a lot of pitiful creatures there...does it matter who owns them? The fact is this happens all the time be it joe public, gypsies, dealers and the like...the point is, what happens to them if the public don't get a chance to buy these horses or help them? None of us know what goes on behind closed doors and a lot who do just bury their head in the sands..people want them banned cus they don't like to see it and neither do I. If I didn't have money in my pocket and have bought many pitiful creatures in the past, I hate to think what would pf happened to them if I didn't take them home.

But as mentioned in a previous thread *Not all the horses are treated badly*

 

[Pilib]

I think by buying poor neglected horses you are just fueling the market for this type of horse.
X

 

[mylord]

I am just one person in a world of millions. Buying the odd horse and pony because I feel sorry for it won't stop it from happening.

Lots of dealers (not all) etc run mares in fields and along river banks with colts and stallions, a few banned sales won't stop it. Most of the dealers buy amongst themselves anyway and there is a good market for horses so this sort of thing will never stop whether there are sales or not..they will just deal amongst each other instead.

Besides, some of the horses are actually good and surpisingly well cared for to be fair, not all are in poor health but for the ones that are may get a chance for someone to feel sorry for them and hopefully get a new and better life.

 

[zoeshiloh]

[ QUOTE ]

Really ?

Do you walk round the lorry park, there are plenty of pitiful creatures there

Most of what goes through the ring belong to joe public and are not gypsy stock.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I mainly walk around the lorry parks, in the lorries etc - spend no time really looking at the so-called "ring" which has kind of become redundant since passports came into play. I have also walked around the caravans in neighbouring fields, where Joe-public does not get to go (they are allowed I think most just fear for their lives, lol) and seen the horses that are not on public display. Don't get me wrong, there are some under-nourished and poor animals, but not to the extent that many people will have you believe.

 

[AlexThe Arab]

No it doesn't matter who owns them - sales are not a showcase for neglected animals to be paraded about so "some" of them can be rescued!
Stopping the sales will not stop you rescuing ponies

The horses/ponies are at sales to be sold - no sales and they will find alternative methods of selling them. The last pony I bought was from a traveller/gypsy off the internet - proudly advertised as a 2 yr old skinny worm infested hatrack being ridden by overweight teenager

You don't have to look far to find them, they aren't hidden - look for them!
Sales are a day out and/or entertainment for the majority who attend.

 

[AlexThe Arab]

Loopyloo1 - so in your OP you asked if horse sales being banned would be detrimental to horse welfare - but you now state that with or without the sales, dealers will still deal, and that not all the horses are in a bad way

What point are you trying to make?
Did you ever stop to think about the poor animals that are "rescued" by people too ignorant to care for them - but it was cheap and they felt sorry for it? Not all of them go to better homes

 

[mylord]

All I can say to that is that I am not one of them. Again though, that sort of thing happens anyway! My point being stopping sales doesn't change the fact that some horses in the world are neglected. Is this what you think?

What about (a scenario) Mothers take their kids for a couple of riding lessons and then buy the kids a horse..do you think half of these people know how to look after a horse properly after just a couple of lessons? That is just one scenario.

There are several others, ignorant people (even if they have the best intentions), stupid people and others that live beyond their means and can't afford to look after a horse properly. Some of the above end up in dealer hands and consequently often sales.

I never started this thread to argue with people. All of this is just my opinion and I am fully aware that many others don't agree, that's there choice.

I actually enjoy going to the sales when I get a chance because I can buy lots of bargains for my many neddies and possibly the chance to buy a horse/pony if the need arises. It is no different than turning up at (certain) dealer yards but with out the bargain hunting for horsey apparel and the social side.

 

[vennessa]

[ QUOTE ]
Loopyloo1 - so in your OP you asked if horse sales being banned would be detrimental to horse welfare - but you now state that with or without the sales, dealers will still deal, and that not all the horses are in a bad way

What point are you trying to make?
Did you ever stop to think about the poor animals that are "rescued" by people too ignorant to care for them - but it was cheap and they felt sorry for it? Not all of them go to better homes

[/ QUOTE ]
I do not have time to give a full reply to th op but i do agree with above. We have rescues that were 'rescued' by people with good intentions but no idea.
I can tell many horror stories of 'rescued' horses/ponies landing in the wrong hands.
At auction etc these animals are 'for sale' people are 'purchaseing' and rewarding the seller. I don't see it as 'rescueing'.

 

[AlexThe Arab]

[ QUOTE ]
Well done to all of you who thought you was doing good by getting them banned...did you really think banning the sales will stop any horse cruelty or neglect!!???

[/ QUOTE ]

You asked if people realised that banning horse sales such as Watton would not stop horse cruelty ? I agree with you !

I disagree with your thinking that the reason it has been banned has anything to do with horse welfare. I think you should do some research, perhaps you could ask Watton Town Council why they don't want it taking place?

[ QUOTE ]
My point being stopping sales doesn't change the fact that some horses in the world are neglected. Is this what you think?


[/ QUOTE ]

No - why would I think that ? Sales just make it a nice day out for some - you buying one pony every so often isn't going to help much is it? How do you choose which one to save?

By the way, I have no strong feelings for or against the sale taking place

 

[vickyguns]

Just had the Tallow horse fair over here, (ireland).It is a huge day and is brilliant, with dealers, travellers and the public alike buying and selling. I'm sick to the teeth of people tarring all the travelling community with the same brush, more than most I would say they have a hell of an eye for a good horse and treat them well. Of course there is the odd ropey looking thing, but I do not consider this to be ill treatment. The thing is the world has gotten so p.c, (the horse world in particular), that anything in a field in winter without a rug on is reported to the r.s.p.c.a!..... sorry, I think it's scandalous that a fair has been banned because of do-gooding eejits...yet again!

 

[Magicmillbrook]

Council officers didnt want to ban the horse fair because it kept everything in one spot and undercontrol, councillors and public had other ideas (due to it being unfair that they didnt have a 'caravan site licence', and complaints of rubbish and excrement, all of which gets cleared up at the end by the organiser). I understand the organiser voluntarily cancelled.

Having been to the sale on many, many ocasions both as Joe public and in a proff capacity (acess all areas), I can honestly say I have never seen any out and out cruelty cases. A lot of the youngsters look a bit poor, but then most young cobs do, particularly when they are bum high and loosing their winter woolies. I think we are too quick to shout cruelty when horses dont look the way we would like ours to. You only have to visit WHW to see what a real cruelty case looks like.

I may court critisism here, but I would much rather see groups of slightly underweight cobs running out togther (as many dealers/gypsies horses do) living 'au naturelle' than over fed, underworked horses comdemned to living in a 12x12 stable becasue its owner/YO doesnt want the field to get damaged or poor horse to get wet.

Living nearby I do tend to get a bit jittery about my horses and possesions around the time of the horse fair, however there is no evidence to suggest that more horse thefts take place at this time. The only down side is that the council get compalints regarding aunathorised encampments in the nearby villages, along with the acompaning rubbish and stray dogs (not a bad thing, my lovely pup was a watton horse fair left over!).

As to whether horse fairs/sales create more horse cruelty or give a chance to 'rescue' - I dont know. People will always be ignorant or cruel. At least a horse fair is a public event, many private yards (Amersham springs to mind) are behind closed gates. If I wanted to rescue a horse I would go to a horse rescue charity, which is where I got my lovely companion pony from.