Wearing hoof down too quickly

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wish upon a star

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After some recommendations to help improve hoof growth I suppose. My mare is barefoot but had a trim today and was told that she has worn away too much hoof through hacking. So will reduce the hacking but was wondering whether there was anything to feed or do to promote growth so it's at an even rate of growth and wear.

She has solid hooves so both the farrier and myself think it's a shame to shoe her but if she can't grow hoof fast enough then will have to shoe her. She's not footy at all.
 
She's perfectly sound and someone has told you she's worn away too much hoof? Sack your farrier!

Continue to hack her unless she gets sore. Don't have her trimmed at all for three months and see what her feet look like at the end of that time. If she's wearing one side more than the other then she probably needs a different balance to her feet.

You only need a trimmer at the moment if she has an action or conformation which is very out of kilter.

Just my opinion, anyways.
 
I'm just wary of doing too much and hurting her. I'll take some pictures now and see what you all think but there Just doesn't seem to be any hoof wall and there wasn't before a trim either.

All seems to wear fairly evenly and she rarely gets trimmed so every 3 months or so anyway. Thank you, different side of the coin to what I was thinking :)
 
If you read Pete Ramey, he maintains that any under developed part of the hoof needs stimulation to encourage growth. I would keep on doing what you are doing so long as she is sound
 
Ha ha that's a good one. If she's sound how can she have worn away too much foot?

I once had a farrier tell me at an inspection prior to a 30km endurance ride that my horse would not be able to complete it and would have no feet left by the end of it. Strangely, she not only completed it, she was the fastest back and passed the vetting which was on a stoney track ;). Oh and she still had feet too!
 
It was just a file off really, just wanted them checked.

Will have a look at Pete Ramey thank you.

I think the farrier was surprised she was sound and warning me to be careful as she could become lame. Got a good farrier who's supported her unshod and is reluctant to put shoes on but just wanted to see what i couls do to prevent an issue. That's pretty impressive ffionwhite.
 
Well I always think shod feet look too long - even when newly shod. I think it is just a difference of perspective. If you are used to looking at shod feet all day, then an unshod one is going to look short.
 
hmmm, they often don't have any proud wall. I wonder if he is a good farrier, and keen on barefoot but doesn't have many hard working ones on his books? If she is sound and happy I wouldn't worry, bf horses let you know pretty quickly if they have done too much IME.
 
I'll try and upload a picture to see whether you all think it's short because I'm doubting myself now!

She did used to have a bit of proud wall but that's before we started hacking I guess. Perhaps yes, definitely a good farrier. Well we'll see how it goes for now then and if she does get sore will look at boots and shoes.
 
I won't need pictures.

No foot on a perfectly sound horse can ever be too short for me :)

He may be a good farrier, but the farriery syllabus does not include trimming hard working barefoot horses, sadly.
 
Im new to the whole BF thing and everything is going well but I've put some serious research into it and its the whole package, feed, environment, exercise etc It's scary your farrier is coming out with this incorrect information and scaring you! Ask him if he walks on his toenails or the sole of his foot? If your horse is wearing down the outer wall of its hoof its because its self trimming and you hacking it out is exactly what you should be doing.


I've been reading the Rockley Farm Blog which is brilliant at explaining it a lot better than I can. http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/what-happens-when-hoof-wall-wears-away.html?spref=fb
 
Is the farrier comparing her feet to those he'd put a shoe on, which are always longer (mine goes in and out of shoes as it suits me, and farrier sometimes has a grumble when it's time to put shoes back on that they aren't really long enough for that - because they are different to shod hooves).

My horse is shod in front and no shoes behind. He has great feet and my farrier does an excellent job, but his hinds are shorter than his fronts simply because they aren't shod. I actually sometimes struggle to give him enough roadwork to keep them trimmed fully. Farrier does front feet every 5-6 weeks and all he does with the hinds is occasionally put a bit of a roll on them or tidy up any bits that might have chipped.

If the horse isn't sore, and you're absolutely positive of that, then I would carry on.
 
I wouldn't worry so long as your horse is sound. But keep a close "feel" on for any short-striding or reluctance. There really isn't much you can do to speed up growth. Horses differ in how much hoof they grow, and either the growth will catch up to match wear, or it won't. If it doesn't and your horse starts being uncomfortable, you could always boot up for some of your hacks to reduce wear. If he's sound otherwise, you won't have to boot all the time, so it might not be that much trouble.
 
The important parts are frog and soles - if she has too much wall she will be loading it too much, one of the reasons shoes are so bad for them. Peripheral loading like that doesn't stimulate the frog and soles, which are the main support for the bony column along with the laminae. It's a change of perception though if like most people your experience has mainly been shod horses.
 
supsup said:
I wouldn't worry so long as your horse is sound. But keep a close "feel" on for any short-striding or reluctance. There really isn't much you can do to speed up growth. Horses differ in how much hoof they grow, and either the growth will catch up to match wear, or it won't. If it doesn't and your horse starts being uncomfortable, you could always boot up for some of your hacks to reduce wear. If he's sound otherwise, you won't have to boot all the time, so it might not be that much trouble.
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My pony wasn't unsound in any perceptible way when not shod. However, I noticed that when we were doing a lot of road work, he would ask to go on the verge whenever possible. When farrier came, he said that his normal hoof growth rate didn't keep up with the amount of work we were doing and the pony was politely pointing out he wasn't comfortable. He is fine in winter as road work is restricted but is shod over the summer. Nothing to be worried about.
 
Smogul said:
My pony wasn't unsound in any perceptible way when not shod. However, I noticed that when we were doing a lot of road work, he would ask to go on the verge whenever possible. When farrier came, he said that his normal hoof growth rate didn't keep up with the amount of work we were doing and the pony was politely pointing out he wasn't comfortable. He is fine in winter as road work is restricted but is shod over the summer. Nothing to be worried about.
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Totally and utterly wrong. Sorry.

OP - stop having your horse trimmed. If you're doing lots of work, they're probably self trimming. Some farriers are not clued up on barefoot and roll out the same old nonsense. Whatever you do, do not resort to shoeing. Just provide correct nutrition (what do you feed?) and stop having trims for 3 months and then get a recommended barefoot trimmer out to help you assess the hoof you have.
 
I think I am yet to experience 'normal hoof growth rate'.

Also the OP says nothing about the horse being uncomfortable or seeking softer surfaces.
 
I do wish people would get themselves either a qualified trimmer with many many performing horses on their books or a farrier with the same record.

So many people say their farrier is "good" because they support my unshod horse but never asks what qualifications they have in terms of performance trimming.

A pasture trim is not barefoot. It needs distinguishing or else we will keep on getting disillusioned people like the OP left with inadequate support and misinformation.

If you want a VW Golf, you buy a Golf. Not a Vauxhall Astra because it looks like one. Excuse my analogy but most people will remember the advert :D
 
Horses CAN become footsore of they are wearing the hoof away faster than it is growing - why do you think shoes were invented in the first place? It is rare for this to happen nowadays as very few horses are doing enough work for this to occur, but if your horse becomes footsore because of too much work, there are always hoof boots. If it is sore (which it's not, by the sound of it) for other reasons, there is even less need to shoe, but the diet may need reviewing. Far more barefoot-aware people than me can advise you on that, I just have unshod horses without all the falderol.
 
I have many clients hacking 5-6days a week, hunting and competing. So this is my experience as a trimmer.

If the horse has good quality functional hooves he may not need them trimming often if he is self trimming and giving himself his own mustang roll (this comes from wear over different surfaces, wear on concrete or tarmac will not give mustang roll)

What I do for a lot of clients where either; the hoof doesn't grow quickly or it wears down naturally is just apply a bevel and roll. However I do recommend some clients do this themselves in between visits to prevent chips etc.

Problems arise if the hoof wears flat as when the outer weight bears it is prone to chipping or flare (hence applying a bevel and roll). so these need regular tweaking in the right direction to avoid them getting worse.

If your horse is sound there isn't really a problem :)

However! If used boots a few times a week that would prevent as much wear ... definitely a better option than shoes!!!

J
 
Cortez said:
Horses CAN become footsore of they are wearing the hoof away faster than it is growing - why do you think shoes were invented in the first place? It is rare for this to happen nowadays as very few horses are doing enough work for this to occur, but if your horse becomes footsore because of too much work, there are always hoof boots. If it is sore (which it's not, by the sound of it) for other reasons, there is even less need to shoe, but the diet may need reviewing. Far more barefoot-aware people than me can advise you on that, I just have unshod horses without all the falderol.
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The thing is... it's just not known amongst more established barefooters. Before that, there's boots. The ones I know struggle to keep hoof worn... I'm having to trim every three weeks despite roadwork/trackwork 9-12hrs a week.

Which begs the question why exactly were horses shod back then? If you read the books there are similar theories... mainly that it wasn't the work. Mustangs and Brumby's, our only wild model, cover terrain that does not explain the differences between the mileage and the conditions that domestic horses do. Olden day horses pulled the carriages and covered the miles for sure... mostly in "better" going than their wild cousins... they had no time to eat hay and forage so could never take in the calories needed to this much fast work. Grains and mollasses were added to the diet to provide the energy needed to pull the mail, the townspeople and the produce. They didn't last long despite the shoes. You only have to watch Black Beauty to see what was going on.

Shoes were used to stop the feet from crumbling in the dirt and cobbles. It crumbled due to the high sugar diet all these horses were fed on... founder was THE disease of the time and it killed the majority of the working horses. As sugar is doing now... we are only just beginning to understand all of this due to the largely unpaid research in the last 30-40 years or so.

We don't drive and ride our horses 16 hrs a day anymore and grain is really exclusively racing fodder. Apart from some pockets in hunting and eventing, grain is ONLY NOW being understood as a factor in laminitis. Even a three day eventer works a maximum of 6 hrs a day - unless you know different.

That shoes, are invented to stop wear is largely a real snub to the real issues of horse cruelty in those days. It wasn't all about wear... it was preventing founder, sinker, basically the disintegration of the hoof due to a combination of the nature of work, the type of diet and the kind of husbandry being used at the time.

Cloud the Stallion (google him and his herd) is almost 30yrs old and he and his herd cover almost 30 miles a day on average in the toughest terrain America can offer... plus having to be rounded up by helicopter which means galloping for days in some circumstances and some do die. It's horrific but some survive and get rehomed and their feet are always held up as a miracle of nature. They are not WB's or TB's I'll give you that but they are a mix of breeds that are present in our domestic breeds today.
 
I'm the same as you tallyho, I wonder if it depends on the rate of change of amount of work that people struggle with? Frank has provided an interesting experiment the last few months. Up until the end of June working hard, covering some fair mileage on a weekly basis and me trimming every 3 weeks to stop his toes getting long in front (partly due to his wear pattern). End of June he had to rest, had field rest, 20 min in hand every other day for 3 weeks etc, (feet noticeably deteriorated, frogs got natty, lots of sole flakiness etc which is not normal for him. He has been doing a little more the last 4 weeks but nothing like the quantity he was before.
Until 3 weeks ago his feet were growing at a rate of knots, they seem to have finally gotten the message ;) but the lag time hasn't been insignificant.
 
If you increase the hacking slowly the horse won't get sore. It's only if you do it too fast for the feet to keep up. That doesn't mean they cannot keep up, it means they need more than a couple of days notice to grow faster to compensate for more wear. Now each horse will be different as to how much notice and how long it needs to get it right. Also if you do loads one week and hardly anything the next then that will make it harder for the horse to adjust too.

When I had an accident my main horse went from around 140km per week mainly on hard stony tracks (and indeed, she also lives on a hard stony track and is never on a soft surface!) to practically nothing. Her feet kept growing at the previous rate for a good month before they slowed down due to less wear. Incidentally she grows a whole new hoof capsule in less than 12 weeks.

She has not been trimmed or touched by a farrier or trimmer for 22 months. Her feet are amazing.

The only time she has been remotely sore was when I moved her home originally and she was stood on the (new) stone surface and being hacked out. It took her a few weeks to adjust to the abrasive surface but she did. During this time of adjustment I rode her in the field more than on the road.
 
tallyho! said:
The thing is... it's just not known amongst more established barefooters. Before that, there's boots. The ones I know struggle to keep hoof worn... I'm having to trim every three weeks despite roadwork/trackwork 9-12hrs a week.

Which begs the question why exactly were horses shod back then? If you read the books there are similar theories... mainly that it wasn't the work. Mustangs and Brumby's, our only wild model, cover terrain that does not explain the differences between the mileage and the conditions that domestic horses do. Olden day horses pulled the carriages and covered the miles for sure... mostly in "better" going than their wild cousins... they had no time to eat hay and forage so could never take in the calories needed to this much fast work. Grains and mollasses were added to the diet to provide the energy needed to pull the mail, the townspeople and the produce. They didn't last long despite the shoes. You only have to watch Black Beauty to see what was going on.

Shoes were used to stop the feet from crumbling in the dirt and cobbles. It crumbled due to the high sugar diet all these horses were fed on... founder was THE disease of the time and it killed the majority of the working horses. As sugar is doing now... we are only just beginning to understand all of this due to the largely unpaid research in the last 30-40 years or so.

We don't drive and ride our horses 16 hrs a day anymore and grain is really exclusively racing fodder. Apart from some pockets in hunting and eventing, grain is ONLY NOW being understood as a factor in laminitis. Even a three day eventer works a maximum of 6 hrs a day - unless you know different.

That shoes, are invented to stop wear is largely a real snub to the real issues of horse cruelty in those days. It wasn't all about wear... it was preventing founder, sinker, basically the disintegration of the hoof due to a combination of the nature of work, the type of diet and the kind of husbandry being used at the time.

Cloud the Stallion (google him and his herd) is almost 30yrs old and he and his herd cover almost 30 miles a day on average in the toughest terrain America can offer... plus having to be rounded up by helicopter which means galloping for days in some circumstances and some do die. It's horrific but some survive and get rehomed and their feet are always held up as a miracle of nature. They are not WB's or TB's I'll give you that but they are a mix of breeds that are present in our domestic breeds today.
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This is absolutely the best answer and thank you for taking the time to write it :)

Same topic but slightly selfishly posting ... Had my first ridden hack out on my boy last night since transitioning to BF and it felt amazing. I've been on a few times for short periods in the field and we've been walking out inhand for the last couple of weeks but last night was the first time I was onboard. He had to do a couple of hundred yards on the road but then he had the choice of tarmac or grass verge and he predominantly chose the grass verge BUT I let him decide and it was almost like he was testing the tarmac, increasing his confidence and then just popping on the grass for a little break. We only did about 2 miles but it was sooo lovely being able to ride out again which is our main thing anyway and his walk ... his walk feels so much better than when he was shod but its difficult to explain how :)
 
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