WEG Eventing Team Selected - Thoughts...

Velcrobum said:
Mr Bass has only had 4 completions this year with the last one being in May. He did dressage and SJ at Aston-le-walls in the "WEG section" but did not run XC in July. There were at least 2 of voting members of the selection panel there as well as the Richard Waygood and Chris Bartle. I wonder if there has been an injury issue that Joe public is not privy to.
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I thought he was second at Luhmuhlen?
 
Velcrobum said:
Mr Bass has only had 4 completions this year with the last one being in May. He did dressage and SJ at Aston-le-walls in the "WEG section" but did not run XC in July. There were at least 2 of voting members of the selection panel there as well as the Richard Waygood and Chris Bartle. I wonder if there has been an injury issue that Joe public is not privy to.
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I thought that but then would she have reacted like she did on her Twitter if that was the case!
 
AdorableAlice said:
BE have simply taken the most sensible PR route and who can blame them. The poor riding and media attention saga will fade and Mr Townend will be back on on the team in due course. WEG has come too close to the unsavoury incidents and too close to the loss of some of his high profile sponsors who may also be involved in other aspects of BE sponsorship.

His rather trite statement is the only sensible and grown up thing he could do, but I bet you wouldn't want to be on his payroll at the minute, or perhaps the first horse to make a mistake under him.

Personally I don't think he should be representing GB just yet regardless of his world ranking.
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I agree with AA on this .
It’s about more who has the most horses and is winning the most points .
I am very sorry for LC though .
 
Velcrobum said:
Mr Bass has only had 4 completions this year with the last one being in May. He did dressage and SJ at Aston-le-walls in the "WEG section" but did not run XC in July. There were at least 2 of voting members of the selection panel there as well as the Richard Waygood and Chris Bartle. I wonder if there has been an injury issue that Joe public is not privy to.
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He would have had some time off competing after Luhmuhlen as they all do after a 4 star. And she finished 3rd in the nation's cup at Haras du Pin this weekend with a double clear.
I wonder if she would have been better off going to hartpury as 4 of the 5 selected did, as (according to someone on fb!) the final selection meeting was there after the 3 star.
 
Tina Cook seems invincible. Didn’t she cross her tracks last time out for the team and described her sending off as ‘technical’ when in fact she just went wrong and she knew it. She just gets shoed in again. Where is she in the world rankings? Way behind those left out that’s for sure.
 
pepsimaxrock said:
Tina Cook seems invincible. Didn’t she cross her tracks last time out for the team and described her sending off as ‘technical’ when in fact she just went wrong and she knew it. She just gets shoed in again. Where is she in the world rankings? Way behind those left out that’s for sure.
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Honestly don't know what you are referring to? She was 4th at the Europeans last year. If you look at her record on the fei database for major results, she has form for delivering brilliant team performances.
She had a nasty fall earlier this year which was why many thought she wouldn't make the cut, but she has come back with a 3* win at hartpury and clearly the selectors think she will do the job again!
 
My guess the reason for leaving OT off the team is a clash of personalities? When CB trained the German team I vividly remember at least three interviews in which he emphasized the importance of "trainable riders" (as in riders who listen and like to learn regardless of their status) and of team mentality. I do not know OT, hence I could be totally wrong here. However this is the only reason I could think of.
 
Personally I am not surprised about Mr Bass. Think it is maybe just a year too soon as he is only 10 I think. His time will definitely come though as obviously has a lot of potential!
I would probably have selected ollie myself but as someone mentioned elsewhere I think he has a pretty bad record at team level! I think only 1 clear from 9 attempts or something? And at least 2 times when he has withdraw from trot up on last day. So maybe not a great team member for some reason, especially looking ahead to the Olympics where all members will count....
I wonder why his form is relatively poor at championships when he has pretty consistent results elsewhere and under pressure....?
 
Velcrobum said:
Mr Bass has only had 4 completions this year with the last one being in May. He did dressage and SJ at Aston-le-walls in the "WEG section" but did not run XC in July. There were at least 2 of voting members of the selection panel there as well as the Richard Waygood and Chris Bartle. I wonder if there has been an injury issue that Joe public is not privy to.
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Except, Quarrycrest Echo did exactly the same (completed Luhmuelen, ran dressage and SJ Aston Le Walls in July, and then completed a CIC*** last weekend), and Ceylor LAN did exactly the same (Luhmuelen, Aston, CIC*** last weekend), but ran XC at Aston. And those were the only three British longlisted horses to complete Luhmuehlen (Billy the Red and Bulana didn't complete).

So I'm going to guess that that was a team-agreed plan of action for those three, rather than a soundness thing.

NikNak1 said:
Personally I am not surprised about Mr Bass. Think it is maybe just a year too soon as he is only 10 I think. His time will definitely come though as obviously has a lot of potential!
I would probably have selected ollie myself but as someone mentioned elsewhere I think he has a pretty bad record at team level! I think only 1 clear from 9 attempts or something? And at least 2 times when he has withdraw from trot up on last day. So maybe not a great team member for some reason, especially looking ahead to the Olympics where all members will count....
I wonder why his form is relatively poor at championships when he has pretty consistent results elsewhere and under pressure...?
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I wonder if Bulana would have been on the team, had the soundness issue not occurred. Because minus Quarrycrest Echo and add Bulana, that's a team of horses with multiple good showings at 4* and/or championships. And after all, they took a team of horses to Rio and the only placing in the top 25 was the horse with proven 4* experience!

So I wonder if it was rider inexperience combined with horse inexperience that kept LC and Mr Bass off the team...?

I mean, Quarrycrest Echo has the same amount of experience as Mr Bass, but PF is a more experienced/proven championship rider than LC (who has only been on two senior teams, I think?).

And Tom McEwan has less experience than LC on championship teams, but he is on a horse with 4 x good 4* completions, including two Badmintons and a Burghley.

As you say, Mr Bass will hopefully have a lot more chances to be on teams, and the pairing have a chance to show the selectors what they missed at Burghley. By the time it comes to the Europeans next year, he might have 3 x 4* completions and be much harder to ignore if all has gone well for him!
 
I'm glad to come on here and see others as shocked as I was to see OT missing from the final 5. I know a lot are surprised about the omission of LC, but I'm actually less surprised by that. Mr Bass is a phenomenal horse, and barring rider/ horse injury, I fully expect to see that horse at Tokyo in 2020, despite his record, he wouldn't have been a shoe in for me.
I wouldn't have put OT up there on Ballaghmor Class but would have expected to see him on either of the Cooley horses. As someone else has said, how does someone prove themselves after poor team performances, than be put on another team. His results all round speak for themselves and I don't think his statement was smug at all. I've never considered myself an OT fan in particular but this year seems to be making it appear as though I am one!

All of the above being said, I'm not sure I could talk any of those selected, out of a space. I was surprised by Billy the Red following his recent dressage blow-ups and had the same thought as someone else re Arctic Soul and the ground.
 
pepsimaxrock said:
Tina Cook seems invincible. Didn’t she cross her tracks last time out for the team and described her sending off as ‘technical’ when in fact she just went wrong and she knew it. She just gets shoed in again. Where is she in the world rankings? Way behind those left out that’s for sure.
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Errr no. Tina was fourth the Euros last year, has a team record that some can only hope of acheiving, and is the definition of a team GB member.

You also need some of Tina's experience, level headedness, and older, more mature outlook in what is a pretty young experienced team.
 
So why long-list him in the first place if that's the reason for him not being selected? Long-listing him on 3 horses shows he has the results on 3(!!) horses to be considered. If his results don't count and he's not being selected on principle following his Badminton performance and previous team history, why waste everyone's time, not least of all his and the horses, trying to prove themselves as viable candidates.
 
Sophire said:
So why long-list him in the first place if that's the reason for him not being selected? Long-listing him on 3 horses shows he has the results on 3(!!) horses to be considered. If his results don't count and he's not being selected on principle following his Badminton performance and previous team history, why waste everyone's time, not least of all his and the horses, trying to prove themselves as viable candidates.
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I honestly don't think it is a principle thing. I think that the selectors believe that the 5 horses & riders they have chosen have a higher probability of getting a solid result for Olympic qualification than those they haven't selected.

And for those asking why he wouldn't have the individual spot, I assume that they are not taking a travelling reserve therefore the individual needs to be thought of as a reliable team member also.
 
Sophire said:
So why long-list him in the first place if that's the reason for him not being selected? Long-listing him on 3 horses shows he has the results on 3(!!) horses to be considered. If his results don't count and he's not being selected on principle following his Badminton performance and previous team history, why waste everyone's time, not least of all his and the horses, trying to prove themselves as viable candidates.
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This was my feeling....it would be strange to invest time and money or long listing the three horses if they were never going to be called up. But there are probably reasons we will never know...
 
Surely the long list always includes a good few horses that don't get in. The selectors pick who they think will be most suitable out of the whole lot? Some people on the long list are going to lose out.

I'm happy with the result. We have good selectors and trainers, who know what they're doing. I was dubious about the last team picked and we won...

I don't think Oli is a team player or a suitable British eventing ambassador. We don't know what has gone on behind the scenes, we only saw his riding at Badminton, there could have been more arguements and awkwardness. A team member needs to take direction and not just focus on winning and being no 1. He may well win Burghley and everyone will be up in arms that he's not included, but it doesn't mean he'd have been great on the team..

I'm pleased that Tina is included, she somehow always seems to perform slightly better on a team. I'm also happy to see Arctic Soul on the team, I've always wanted him to be on previous teams, rather than her other less experienced horses. As for the others, I was struggling to choose! I would have had Nicola Wilson on there too if it had been possible.

It will be an interesting competition- there are some great teams to beat and it will be a fairly novice team, despite all the individuals being strong.
 
I have just bought a copy of H&H with the express purpose of reading Mark Phillips’ column. He seems to think Oliver Townend is leaving us and naturally he’s concerned.
I’m concerned that we have a man who wants to ride for his country but is not being allowed to. Have they just arbitrarily imposed a ban where previously there was none? (or, under current BE rules, provision for one) this seems grossly unfair.
Seems to me that people are more upset at Oliver’s comments after the alleged event. I think that shoving a microphone into someone’s face with the sole purpose of provoking a controversial response is bad form and shouldn’t be allowed. I can think of another celebrated Yorkshireman and a proposed disciplinary action circa 1971. Had anyone had the gall to provoke a response from Harvey Smith the microphone would have needed surgical removal.
If we’re going to throw sporting legends under the bus every time there’s a hint of PR fail we are shooting ourselves in the foot and playing right into the hands of the small but vociferous lobby who would prefer that horses were not used in sport at all.
I found a wonderful quote from Andrew Nicholson:
…you make mistakes when you’re young and naïve for being a little too ambitious. But then that comes back again when you’re experienced and successful, and you’re wanting to win it, not just wanting to make the numbers up and you start pushing the boundaries a little too far. So yes, those things keep occurring. You can either stay in the steady lane when you’re very experienced, and get a place, or you can pull out into the fast lane now and again and have a chance of winning, except when you do that, mistakes can happen…
Wise words indeed.
 
claracanter said:
Do you mean OT is thinking of changing nationality, Fellewell?
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Well, Yorkshire could become an internationally-recognised state I suppose but I was picking up on Mark Phillips' comments. Oliver Townend is world number one and he didn't get there without being able to see/create opportunities. However, my response to your initial question would be eckers like.
 
See I read it as implying OT would go the same way as Nicholson and simply not be available. Could be wrong though.
 
Fellewell said:
I have just bought a copy of H&H with the express purpose of reading Mark Phillips’ column. He seems to think Oliver Townend is leaving us and naturally he’s concerned.
I’m concerned that we have a man who wants to ride for his country but is not being allowed to. Have they just arbitrarily imposed a ban where previously there was none? (or, under current BE rules, provision for one) this seems grossly unfair.
Seems to me that people are more upset at Oliver’s comments after the alleged event. I think that shoving a microphone into someone’s face with the sole purpose of provoking a controversial response is bad form and shouldn’t be allowed. I can think of another celebrated Yorkshireman and a proposed disciplinary action circa 1971. Had anyone had the gall to provoke a response from Harvey Smith the microphone would have needed surgical removal.
If we’re going to throw sporting legends under the bus every time there’s a hint of PR fail we are shooting ourselves in the foot and playing right into the hands of the small but vociferous lobby who would prefer that horses were not used in sport at all.
I found a wonderful quote from Andrew Nicholson:
…you make mistakes when you’re young and naïve for being a little too ambitious. But then that comes back again when you’re experienced and successful, and you’re wanting to win it, not just wanting to make the numbers up and you start pushing the boundaries a little too far. So yes, those things keep occurring. You can either stay in the steady lane when you’re very experienced, and get a place, or you can pull out into the fast lane now and again and have a chance of winning, except when you do that, mistakes can happen…
Wise words indeed.
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You make some very valid points.

Trial by media/Facebook/HHO is never a pleasant thing.

And then a few weeks after Badminton I saw things (well, one thing in particular) at Tatts which showed with glaring clarity the way "popular" riders are treated differently to the "unpopular" (or maybe blunter, less PR savvy) ones.
 
Rowreach said:
You make some very valid points.

Trial by media/Facebook/HHO is never a pleasant thing.

And then a few weeks after Badminton I saw things (well, one thing in particular) at Tatts which showed with glaring clarity the way "popular" riders are treated differently to the "unpopular" (or maybe blunter, less PR savvy) ones.
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i wasnt upset by his comments, i was upset at the way he rode the grey horse and i wonder, if he was an unknown ,would the stewards have made him pull up , . he came 2nd in the masters today and had another dig, its about time he grew up IMO...
 
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splashgirl45 said:
i wasnt upset by his comments, i was upset at the way he rode the grey horse and i wonder, if he was an unknown ,would the stewards have made him pull up , . he came 2nd in the masters today and had another dig, its about time he grew up IMO...
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Ok, but what I saw at Tatts was equally deserving of censure, but it involved a much more popular rider, and there was no action taken by the GJ nor any media storm afterwards. Obviously not such a high profile televised event, but my point stands. Nobody said to the Tatts rider "So when your horse tried to stop and you whacked him over the fence, lurched over the next one and then he fell two fences later, did you not consider that you should have pulled up?" Nope it was OH dear, poor X, I hope they're ok.
 
Rowreach said:
Ok, but what I saw at Tatts was equally deserving of censure, but it involved a much more popular rider, and there was no action taken by the GJ nor any media storm afterwards. Obviously not such a high profile televised event, but my point stands. Nobody said to the Tatts rider "So when your horse tried to stop and you whacked him over the fence, lurched over the next one and then he fell two fences later, did you not consider that you should have pulled up?" Nope it was OH dear, poor X, I hope they're ok.
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Precisely. Rules need to be applied fairly across the board. Disciplinaries dished out as appropriate, then move on.

I don’t condone Olis riding at badminton. But I would fully understand if he withdrew himself from british team availability.
 
i agree the other well known rider should have been warned or stopped if they were riding a worn out horse who then fell. i didnt see that so cannot comment but the rules regarding horse welfare should apply to all and not just the unknown riders. i think that in olly's case he made a mistake and should make sure that it never happens again. im not sure that i want to win medals at the expense of horse welfare if people feel that they have to force a horse to finish the c/c when they are obviously as knackered as the grey horse was. when olly dismounted it was swaying on its back legs and looked like it could collapse and they quickly made it walk on. i know you shouldnt let the horse stand still when they have made a big effort c/c but they were very quick to move him....the decision to not include him may have other reasons, only the selectors know why....
 
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