Weight CC please :)

lula said:
yes, i can see that the purple area is wound spray what im asking is, was it a wound originally, i assume that's why there's purple spray on it? and was it caused by the fall?

There's something going on there. The horse's whole demeanor looks off to me.

Id certainly get withers x rayed as others have said. Really cant hurt.
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Sorry, misunderstood what you were asking originally. It has never been a sore or "open", always a bold patch. I put purple spray on as a precautionary, just incase it did open under a rug etc..

It appeared after the fall, so I concluded it was caused by that but not appeared until slightly later.

Yes, I agree her whole demeanor isn't right. She does hate being tied up outside and will show it through her expressions but to get a good side on photo, it has to be done outside and tied up as I have no one else around.
 
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EKW said:
There's not actually much you can do with broken withers other than strict cross tied box rest. We had a mare who went up and over backwards and cracked the top off of 3 vertirae. She now has mishapen withers - one side is much more filled out than the other - and she has one of those air filled saddles that is regularly checked and adjusted to suit and she is away happy hacking and xc-ing in her new home. Thinking on it, that was probably one of the stupid horses more minor injuries!
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I don't know too much detail but my xray showed bits of unstable bone that if they had realised at the time apparently should have been taken out and all cleared up preventing the bit of boulderdash he currently has for a wither!
Maybe this is totally different I don't know was just commenting on my personal experience of wither damage
 
JHC said:
RE the broken withers, I'm pretty sure something would have been picked up in the work up as she would have been sore if not in quite a lot of pain. As previously stated, 3 vets have been to see her and not one has picked up anything in or around the wither area.
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Well for the sake of £200 can't hurt to have an x-ray done.

The horse looks depressed, and looking at your photobucket account is a totally different animal to what she was.

Before

2012-09-01113802.jpg
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Now

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christ.
thats some before and after.



some damage, if its chipped bone deep within the shoulder or wither area or pressing on a nerve perhaps would not be detectable to outside physical manipulation of the area by a physio or a vet with out an x ray.

you seem really determined to get to the bottom of this, If she was in permanent pain from an undetected internal injury from her accident she would lose the kind of condition she has.

It would really appear an x ray would at least rule out for you that possibility for sure and if it does show something you'll be glad you did.
 
amymay - I do appreciate you looking further into it all, however my photobucket is not in order of when photos were taken, they are in order of when I uploaded them! The photo you have put on as "now" is not now, but was taken in January. The photo you've used as the "before" is the photo of her way before I got her and in a condition I didn't see her as with her previous owner.

I am also not stating that I won't get x-rays done - I haven't said that ANYWHERE, I have only said that 3 vets have been to assess her since September.
 
JHC said:
amymay - I do appreciate you looking further into it all, however my photobucket is not in order of when photos were taken, they are in order of when I uploaded them! The photo you have put on as "now" is not now, but was taken in January. The photo you've used as the "before" is the photo of her way before I got her and in a condition I didn't see her as with her previous owner.

I am also not stating that I won't get x-rays done - I haven't said that ANYWHERE, I have only said that 3 vets have been to assess her since September.
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Apologies - of course - the second photo is a Now photo. However, the difference in the mare is still huge.

As for your vets, it's quite permissible to ask that our vets investigate something specific - especially when something significant has recently happened. And whilst they may not feel there's a problem with her wither or back I would have requested x-rays. However, I know that at the time of the catastrophic fall you really had no interest in having them done - preferring to spend your money on osteopaths instead.
 
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amymay said:
Apologies - of course - the second photo is a Now photo. However, the difference in the mare is still huge.

Out of interest when was the photo of her looking so wonderful taken?
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I'm not going to disagree with you, there has been a huge drop in her condition both before the first photo you've posted and during the time I've had her.

I did not take the photos so cannot say exactly, but from the weather I would guess during the summer.

I am not an experienced owner/rider, as I have only owned a horse for 6/7 years. I have A LOT to learn, and coming on here has improved what I know etc.. I was bought up with ponies, but having someone else look after them for you is an entirely different ball game to now.
 
Well good luck with her. I feel very, very strongly that you need some good professional advice. (And if you have been getting it, sack them and get someone different).

I also appreciate that you think you're doing the best, but these photo's are shocking, and this poor mare deserves better. You've made some very poor decisions it seems to me since you've had her - and you have to turn this around. If you can't pm me, and name your price for her.
 
HaffiesRock said:
What is her daily routine and feed OP?
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As the weather has changed she's in at night and out at day with adlib hay. Fed twice daily on speedibeet & soaked grass nuts, micronized linseed, biotin, brewers yeast and soya oil.

Goes out by 8:30am and in at around 5pm.

amymay said:
Well good luck with her. I feel very, very strongly that you need some good professional advice. (And if you have been getting it, sack them and get someone different).

I also appreciate that you think you're doing the best, but these photo's are shocking, and this poor mare deserves better. You've made some very poor decisions it seems to me since you've had her - and you have to turn this around. If you can't pm me, and name your price for her.
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I do appreciate your advice Amymay, I have followed some of your posts and threads with a lot of interest and I do respect you. I have made huge mistakes with her, I cannot deny that. But I do believe I am now making the appropriate changes to amend them. She did go through a lot of stress caused by me at the beginning and I trusted my YM (at the time) who said to loose school her which in turn resulted in her broncing out the arena, which was the start to the problems. I do not blame anyone but myself.

I have moved yards, seeked a barefoot specialist who came this morning, using a well-known specialist equine vet and other steps and professionals implemented to advise. I *hope* I am now on the right footings to get everything together for this mare and we can progress.
 
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I have not got a lot to add expect if that was my horse I would be very worried and on the hunt for reasons that she's not thriving.
Food wise I would feed add ilib haylage , speedibeet , oats ( up to around 3 kilos ) and micronised linseed (up to 500 grammes daily )and a food quality mineral vit supplement .
I would also have a full blood screening done to see if that throws up anything interesting.
I would be getting a good specialist equine vet out again and a ACPAT physio.
Good luck and let us know how you get on.
 
JHC said:
Fed twice daily on speedibeet & soaked grass nuts, micronized linseed, biotin, brewers yeast and soya oil.
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You might want to double check if regular sugar beet is higher in calories than speedibeet - if it is think about feeding that instead.

You've probably had a huge amount of feeding advice, but as it stands you're feeding very few calories. And for the horse to put condition on you need to feed them.

So, I'd drop the grass nuts and think about a conditioning feed instead. Or if you're worried about her becoming too hot, then think about something like Blue Chip, and good old fashioned boiled barley.

Feed a minimum of 4 feeds a day - the whole ration needing to be fed being split between the 4 meals.
 
Just wanted to comment that I think there are some pretty harsh comments on here and that the OP seems to be reflective and taking them well.

We all have lots to learn OP and you've put on some unflattering pictures of your horse which have caused criticism. Did she have the bald patches when you had her? They do look like the result of a really badly fitting saddle. Lots of horses (unfortunately) have bald/white patches and the top of the wither from rug and or numnah rubs but this is easier to deal with than the ones you are showing.

I would say that there isn't really much/any change between your first two photos but I've seen plenty of horses with that demeanour when tied up outside lorries (have a look next time you are at a show) so you certainly can't glean anything about mental state from them!

Keep us informed.
 
Spring Feather said:
She's put on a little bit of weight, but I wouldn't say there's a 'huge' difference. She still looks rather dull and poor to me. Sorry I can't share in everyone else's positive comments.
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Agree there is not very much difference at all :(

I presume you have her on adlib hay or haylage? You need to stick calories in but avoid starch if she is metabolic. Oil is your best friend in these circumstances. Personally I would have her on one of the soya based balancers, speedibeet and alfa oil, in three or four small feeds a day plus adlib forage.
 
Thankyou scarymare - when I first got her she didn't have balb patches but they came after her falling onto her side. The hair fell out in clumps over a week or two.

The issue I have is that she can't have anything over 10% sugar/starch. Saracen Show Improver Pencils did work wonders on her, but kept her in low grade laminitis, hence having to change to more of a high fibre diet. She also seems to be intolerant to alfalfa and micronized barley. Since the barefoot specialist came today she's said the change her feed again to Thunderbrook Base Mix, Gut-restore and Liquid Boost but I'm not sure that'll be enough calories?

She's adlib organic meadow hay both in stable and in the field.

She's having as much soya oil added into her feed as is safe. Around 250g of linseed in each feed, so 500g daily.

Would adding oats be a good idea?
 
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Goldenstar said:
Low grade foot pain is certainly enough to cause a horse not to thrive
Are her feet pain free ATM ?
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The barefoot trimmer said her hooves are in relatively good condition at the moment but still have a long way to go. She is standing square and happily moving on soft ground and tarmac so as far as I can tell she is painfree in her hooves - although walking over stones proves tricky for her.
 
How long is it since a vet tested her with hoof testers?
And have you had one forefoot blocked out to see what happens ?
And has she been assessed recently by an equine physio ?
 
JHC - does she/ could she have hay in the field when she's turned out? There is nothing in the grass at all at the moment so 8 til 5.30 is quite a long time with no calories going in. Hopefully Dr Green will apear soon and help you a lot !
 
JHC said:
Found she was tense through her neck and 1/10ths lame on her near hind - later found to be an abcess.

Hay adlib in field and stable.
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It's difficult to advise in these circunmtances but if your horse was mine based on the pain in the neck I would get the vet to block out one fore foot and see what happens.
 
Oh I remember this is the horse that fell out of a school down a hill or something like that isn't it, is that what caused the withers issue?

amymay said:
Well for the sake of £200 can't hurt to have an x-ray done.

The horse looks depressed, and looking at your photobucket account is a totally different animal to what she was.

Before

2012-09-01113802.jpg
[/IMG]

Now

2013-03-02104903_zpse2fc1ffa.jpg
[/IMG]
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JHC said:
amymay - I do appreciate you looking further into it all, however my photobucket is not in order of when photos were taken, they are in order of when I uploaded them! The photo you have put on as "now" is not now, but was taken in January. The photo you've used as the "before" is the photo of her way before I got her and in a condition I didn't see her as with her previous owner.

I am also not stating that I won't get x-rays done - I haven't said that ANYWHERE, I have only said that 3 vets have been to assess her since September.
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Huge difference in those photos, but don't take offence at Amymay op, its actually really useful to see those photos.

amymay said:
You might want to double check if regular sugar beet is higher in calories than speedibeet - if it is think about feeding that instead.

You've probably had a huge amount of feeding advice, but as it stands you're feeding very few calories. And for the horse to put condition on you need to feed them.

So, I'd drop the grass nuts and think about a conditioning feed instead. Or if you're worried about her becoming too hot, then think about something like Blue Chip, and good old fashioned boiled barley.

Feed a minimum of 4 feeds a day - the whole ration needing to be fed being split between the 4 meals.
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I would disaree about conditioning feeds as in mixes and nuts, I would be looking at doubling the linseed meal, or adding copra to her diet, but would concur with the the 4 feed strategy. I have in the past suggested and will again stress, get a blood tonic into your mare. Haemavite B + really helps with cases like this. I have seen the results and it was recommended by my vet, who has spent much time working with TBs in newmarket. It is designed to enhance performance and support horses in recuperation. Plenty of vitamins and minerals to aid digestion. I would feed the syrup at the full dose daily. Honestly can't rate this highly enough for recuperation, I would also look at protexin as a probiotic, anything you can add to aid digestion.

You say she is stressy, and she used to be in good condition, have you checked for ulcers? I would because it is absolutely clear from the photos that something is amiss, and the vets in my opinion need to keep looking for you.

It would be a good idea to look at xrays for the withers, but she clearly was very poor when you got her prior to her injury so this, whilst it needs looking at is quite clearly not your focus for weight. Her condition is creeping up, but not nearly quickly enough, a 'normal' horse would have gained far more.

As a side note, horses are at a high risk of lami when they become emaciated because of the viscosity of their blood (it becomes thicker) so it may be that with time, and weight gain and health, the issue of lami risk becomes diminished.
 
Really interesting post QB, esoecially about the laminitis. Food for thought, as it were, about the food. And you're better placed than me to advise.
 
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