Weight gain feed but low sugar?

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southerncomfort

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Investigations are still ongoing regarding my little mini shetland's weight loss.

In the meantime, vet has suggested trying a weight gain feed that won't tip her over in to laminitis. He mentioned that Saracen do one (super high fibre cubes..?).

Are their any other feeds that would be suitable?
 
southerncomfort said:
Sorry, should have said...she's a very picky eater and won't eat her feed if anything is added to it (clearly thinks I'm trying to poison her!).
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Aren't you going to have that issue whatever feed you change to whether it's Copra or another weight gain feed?

My tb is very fussy and the trick with him is to add things gradually and keep offering so he can get used to the fact it's 'different'. When I first introduced Copra he was very suspicious, now doesn't like his feed if I leave it out.

Just had a look at the Saracens super high fibre cubes and at 15% sugar/starch they're over the recommendation for a horse prone to laminitis.
 
Possibly! But not necessarily.

I have managed to introduce 2 different feeds: I've swapped Baileys Lo Cal to Saracen Senior Balancer, which she'll mostly eat ok.

And she really likes Baileys Soft and Lite.

Vet says we need something with calories now, but keeping in mind that she is a native.

Unfortunately, adding linseed will just mean that she stops eating her current feed which i can't risk at the moment.
Copra is a great choice for weight gain, but not many horses like the taste of it.

So it wasn't the high fibre cubes he was referring to...I'll maybe phone and ask them.
 
criso said:
Linseed or Copra. With both the calories come from being high in oil and protein.
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These are always my recs for weight gain too. I find most horses get used to both of these very quickly - I’ve only met one horse that didn’t come round to copra!

I have other recs for high calorie low sugar/starch but they are less palatable than linseed and copra, so likely less use. Adding oil to the feed, extruded rice bran (eg KeyPlus and Equi Jewel), Alfa-A Oil, etc are all much less palatable.

You’ll hit issues with the major low sugar mashes as well - most contain linseed (see Allen & Page ones, TopSpec, Outshine).

Another option is not to feed a conditioning feed at all, and just feed more of what they already get. More food=more calories after all. This is what I do with my mare, who needs to be muzzled through the summer as she gains weight to hippo proportions, but when muzzled loses energy for work. She gets Baileys Natural Meadow Cobs, which are just soaked mature grass nuts - they’re only 6mJ/kg, 10% combined sugar & starch, and the herbiness means my fusspot eats them happily.

That might not work in winter if getting enough calories in becomes an issue but then you’re going to be balancing low sugar/starch with palatability it sounds like.
 
Yeah, I'm between a rock and a hard place with her really.

One of her current symptoms is not being too fussed about eating (we've ruled out all the obvious causes and are left with some bad ones....more test results due tomorrow).

She'd never had a bucket feed before she came here and is deeply suspicious of anything new. If she says no, she means it.

I think I'll give more of her current feed for now and send off for some samples.
 
Could you try a natural form of protein/calories like grass or alfalfa nuts/chop? Spillers Speedymash Fibre is higher in protein than Fast Fibre too but still low in sugar and starch. Also maybe their Daily Balancer to make sure everything is being absorbed as much as possible?

I do rate Copra as well though, mine is fussy but ate it when I used to feed it or perhaps simple linseed oil or veg oil if you can get away with it.
 
GrassChop said:
Could you try a natural form of protein/calories like grass or alfalfa nuts/chop? Spillers Speedymash Fibre is higher in protein than Fast Fibre too but still low in sugar and starch. Also maybe their Daily Balancer to make sure everything is being absorbed as much as possible?

I do rate Copra as well though, mine is fussy but ate it when I used to feed it or perhaps simple linseed oil or veg oil if you can get away with it.
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Ive tried grass nuts and various chaff, but nothing doing unfortunately. She's on Saracen Senior Balancer, which she'll eat if I mix it with the Soft and Lite, but ignores it if its on its own.

I'll see if I can get a sample of Copra just to try it. Veg oil is a good idea, it doesn't taste too strongly of anything, so I'll give it a go.
 
What forage is she on? I found I could drop a the old boy's hard feed right down after swapping part of his haylage ration for alfalfa haylage in the winter. The horsehage alfalfa has a similar sugar and starch content to their high fibre (grass) haylage, but it is higher in protein and DE. Obviously that's no good if she can't have haylage full stop though!
Mine all found the alfalfa very palatable, despite it being quite stemmy.
 
Allen and Page Care & Gain. Specifically designed for those that need low starch/sugar but calories.My fussy one ate it really well for a while and A&P will send you samples if you give them a call.

She is now on Topspec UlcaKind Cubes + linseed + balancer and looks great.
 
southerncomfort said:
Ive tried grass nuts and various chaff, but nothing doing unfortunately. She's on Saracen Senior Balancer, which she'll eat if I mix it with the Soft and Lite, but ignores it if its on its own.

I'll see if I can get a sample of Copra just to try it. Veg oil is a good idea, it doesn't taste too strongly of anything, so I'll give it a go.
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My understanding is that vegetable oil isn't great for them and that linseed oil is the best - with oils/ supplements such as these two even better as they're properly balanced and optimised:

www.kmeliteproducts.co.uk

KM Elite Ultimate Oil

KM Elite Ultimate Oil
www.kmeliteproducts.co.uk www.kmeliteproducts.co.uk

Omega Equine Nutritional Supplements - Healthy Happy Horses

Manufacturers of Specialist Equine Supplements and cold pressed Oils. The best pure ingredients blended together to create products of unrivalled quality.
omegaequine.co.uk omegaequine.co.uk
 
beatrice said:
Allen and Page Care & Gain. Specifically designed for those that need low starch/sugar but calories.My fussy one ate it really well for a while and A&P will send you samples if you give them a call.

She is now on Topspec UlcaKind Cubes + linseed + balancer and looks great.
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Worth noting that Care & Gain isn’t as high calorie as they imply - 10.75 MJ/kg. Usually <10 is low calorie, 10-12 is medium and >13 is high calorie. Compare it to Dengie Alfa-Beet at 10.5, Speedibeet at 12, Alfa A Oil at 12.5, Coolstance copra at 15, linseed at 16-19.

A&P use these definitions themselves then advertise C&G as high calorie, it’s a bit odd.
 
SpeedyPony said:
What forage is she on? I found I could drop a the old boy's hard feed right down after swapping part of his haylage ration for alfalfa haylage in the winter. The horsehage alfalfa has a similar sugar and starch content to their high fibre (grass) haylage, but it is higher in protein and DE. Obviously that's no good if she can't have haylage full stop though!
Mine all found the alfalfa very palatable, despite it being quite stemmy.
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She's only ever had hay to be honest. So far she's refused to eat anything that had alfalfa in, but I don't think it was the alfalfa's fault particularly!
 
beatrice said:
Allen and Page Care & Gain. Specifically designed for those that need low starch/sugar but calories.My fussy one ate it really well for a while and A&P will send you samples if you give them a call.

She is now on Topspec UlcaKind Cubes + linseed + balancer and looks great.
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Thanks, I'll put it on my list to request a sample of.
 
Squeak said:
My understanding is that vegetable oil isn't great for them and that linseed oil is the best - with oils/ supplements such as these two even better as they're properly balanced and optimised:

www.kmeliteproducts.co.uk

KM Elite Ultimate Oil

KM Elite Ultimate Oil
www.kmeliteproducts.co.uk www.kmeliteproducts.co.uk

Omega Equine Nutritional Supplements - Healthy Happy Horses

Manufacturers of Specialist Equine Supplements and cold pressed Oils. The best pure ingredients blended together to create products of unrivalled quality.
omegaequine.co.uk omegaequine.co.uk
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I agree 100%, but I've had a couple refuse to eat it previously so wondered if the taste was strong/peculiar.
 
khalswitz said:
Worth noting that Care & Gain isn’t as high calorie as they imply - 10.75 MJ/kg. Usually <10 is low calorie, 10-12 is medium and >13 is high calorie. Compare it to Dengie Alfa-Beet at 10.5, Speedibeet at 12, Alfa A Oil at 12.5, Coolstance copra at 15, linseed at 16-19.

A&P use these definitions themselves then advertise C&G as high calorie, it’s a bit odd.
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Good to know, thank you.
 
southerncomfort said:
Investigations are still ongoing regarding my little mini shetland's weight loss.

In the meantime, vet has suggested trying a weight gain feed that won't tip her over in to laminitis. He mentioned that Saracen do one (super high fibre cubes..?).

Are their any other feeds that would be suitable?
Click to expand...
Try Flourish. It’s not freely available and I buy a pallet but I can store/use it inn6 months. It’s milled to order.
https://gbr01.safelinks.protection....0+FW7gBMvL1+Ulq6XMslmxewAj8PnI8tM=&reserved=0
 
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