Weight Loss -still unexlained

[aniford]

Hi folks
it has been a while since I posted a thread about my 16.2hh, Hanoverian X TB, 22yr old mare and the weight loss she has suffered over the last 12-18mths.
The vet diagnosed "age related mal-absorption syndrome" of some kind in August 2011 and prescribed Prednisole.
Holly was weaned off the Prednisole, last dose being 7th May.

I struggled to keep any weight on her all winter. By April she was 608kg (using laminitic tape). Ideally Holly should be around 650-700kg.

Holly is now measuring 650kg on the tape and is improving daily. Probably because the grazing is much improved this year.

My question is now, if the vet's diagnosis is correct would the grass have made any difference to her? I am now even more convinced that the diagnosis was incorrect but if anyone has any ideas or suggestions, I would really appreciate them.

Many Thanks
Ani
PS I am hoping this is a continuing trend and I have also completely cut all cereal feeds from her diet. Fibre nuts and rice bran seemed to help during the last few winter months.

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

Don't know anything about the earlier problems so unable to comment but are you sure a 16.2hh 22yo TBx should weigh 700kg??? I was advised by my vets that my (then) 26 yo 15.3hh cob should weigh 500kg. I'm struggling to get my head around another 200kg for a bit bigger horse but a TBx not a cob. Even 650kg sounds overweight to me?

 

[JanetGeorge]

Don't know anything about the earlier problems so unable to comment but are you sure a 16.2hh 22yo TBx should weigh 700kg??? I was advised by my vets that my (then) 26 yo 15.3hh cob should weigh 500kg. I'm struggling to get my head around another 200kg for a bit bigger horse but a TBx not a cob. Even 650kg sounds overweight to me?

Agreed. My 16.2 IDxTB mare Brook is currently as fat as a pig - despite rearing a decent foal who is currently 4 weeks old. She weigh-taped last week at 650 which is about the heaviest she's ever been. And a 16.1 traditional ID - who looks like a beached whale - was just under 700!

The most likely causes of weight loss in old mares are teeth problems, followed by general age-related 'decline' - I had on went downhill quite rapidly and she had developed a very severe heart murmur - part of age-relaed decline.

 

[aniford]

Don't know anything about the earlier problems so unable to comment but are you sure a 16.2hh 22yo TBx should weigh 700kg??? I was advised by my vets that my (then) 26 yo 15.3hh cob should weigh 500kg. I'm struggling to get my head around another 200kg for a bit bigger horse but a TBx not a cob. Even 650kg sounds overweight to me?

Hi, you have a point but I dont think my mare actually weighs 650kg, Im using the laminitis weigh tape as a guide. Holly has very high withers, even for a TB x, she has a huge rib cage (and she is probably nearer 17hh than 16.2). She is 3/4 Hanoverian only 1/4 TB.
Holly needs to measure around 700kg on the tape but that wont be her true weight. At the moment her ribs are still showing and although she has put some weight on over her hind quarters she still needs more fat on, in order to give her the energy to do some light work, to bring the muscle back.
All the usual causes of weight loss in horses (let alone older horses) have been checked and re-checked, plus tests for more exotic causes.
The vet was unable to come to a definite diagnosis which is why, I think, he said its just age-related IBD. My problem is understanding how she can have IBD for this length of time but now is recovering her weight. Also she has very few IBD symptoms. Her symptoms, breeding and history would suggest to me that she has PSSM, she certainly has more symptoms in common with PSSM.
Im grateful that she is recovering and will continue with the non-cereal feed regime, as she is extremely well in herself but I just wondered if anyone had similar experiences with their horses.
Many Thanks
Ani

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

The commonest things are the most common. Has she been ACTH tested for Cushings? The statistics are against her age-wise for Cushings and it can cause a host of odd symptoms that many owners don't realise is Cushings. Weight loss is a symptom, also smelly sweat, sagging bloated belly, confusion, mild ataxia, difficulty maintaining correct body temperature. You can download a voucher from talkaboutcushings.com that you give to your vet and you get the lab test done either for free of very cheap. At 22 I bet she's got some degree of Cushings.

 

[horsebenny]

Hi, don't want to hijack the thread but I am very interested in finding out more about malabsorbtion syndrome. My boy is 26ish, 17.2 and has lost a lot of weight following a C flap operation at the beginning of the year - prior to that he was well covered etc. Came through the op well and then developed sores which we put down to an allergy to the antibiotic which meant box rest and lost of muscle/weight. Anyway, I have been slowly building up his muscle from the ground (eg long reining, pole work) but he is still having problems keeping weight on. I had his bloods done and he had low white blood cells and low protein (although both still in the normal range) so I am wondering whether he has malabsorbtion syndrome and what the treatment was for it? Any help gratefully received!

 

[aniford]

The commonest things are the most common. Has she been ACTH tested for Cushings? The statistics are against her age-wise for Cushings and it can cause a host of odd symptoms that many owners don't realise is Cushings. Weight loss is a symptom, also smelly sweat, sagging bloated belly, confusion, mild ataxia, difficulty maintaining correct body temperature. You can download a voucher from talkaboutcushings.com that you give to your vet and you get the lab test done either for free of very cheap. At 22 I bet she's got some degree of Cushings.

Hi
Thanks but yes she has been tested for Cushings. It came back as negative.
Regards
Ani

 

[aniford]

Hi, don't want to hijack the thread but I am very interested in finding out more about malabsorbtion syndrome. My boy is 26ish, 17.2 and has lost a lot of weight following a C flap operation at the beginning of the year - prior to that he was well covered etc. Came through the op well and then developed sores which we put down to an allergy to the antibiotic which meant box rest and lost of muscle/weight. Anyway, I have been slowly building up his muscle from the ground (eg long reining, pole work) but he is still having problems keeping weight on. I had his bloods done and he had low white blood cells and low protein (although both still in the normal range) so I am wondering whether he has malabsorbtion syndrome and what the treatment was for it? Any help gratefully received!

Hi
you can have a glucose absorption test done which will indicate how well your horse is absorbing nutrients. My vet told me not to bother having this test done as he said it would be a waste of more of my money and he was positive that Holly had IBD. Holly was prescribed cortico steroids which the vet said would improve absorption of feed and we would see a difference in her within a few weeks. This wasnt the case. She was on steroids for approx 9mths and as far as I can tell they seemed to suppress her appetite. They did however help with the swelling on her ringbone.
Good Luck
Ani

 

[AmyMay]

My question is now, if the vet's diagnosis is correct would the grass have made any difference to her? I am now even more convinced that the diagnosis was incorrect but if anyone has any ideas or suggestions, I would really appreciate them.

The summer grass would have made a difference to her, yes. It can be common for 'oldies' to come out of winter looking poor (regardless of how much food is shoveled down them), and it's usually this pattern that forces owners to look at their elderly horses with a view to making a decision on their future.

 

[horsebenny]

Many thanks Ani, I'll maybe get the test done and see where we go from there. In himself he is fine - got out for the field yesterday and took himself off for a hack to the village! But he just needs to get some meat on his bones...Thanks for you help. Cheers, B

 

[aniford]

Many thanks Ani, I'll maybe get the test done and see where we go from there. In himself he is fine - got out for the field yesterday and took himself off for a hack to the village! But he just needs to get some meat on his bones...Thanks for you help. Cheers, B

You're welcome. Naughty boy! LOL My mare has been exactly the same, fine in herself, though obviously a lack of energy at times. What feed/grazing do you have him on? Ive tried most with my mare and its a case of seeing what suits your horse.
Ani xx

 

[aniford]

The summer grass would have made a difference to her, yes. It can be common for 'oldies' to come out of winter looking poor (regardless of how much food is shoveled down them), and it's usually this pattern that forces owners to look at their elderly horses with a view to making a decision on their future.

Hi
Thanks. Even with IBD? If there is a mal absorption problem would the grass have made such a huge difference? Hollys weight problems have been going on for 18mths. It may be coincidental but she improved drastically after I had removed all cereals from her diet.
Ani

 

[horsebenny]

You're welcome. Naughty boy! LOL My mare has been exactly the same, fine in herself, though obviously a lack of energy at times. What feed/grazing do you have him on? Ive tried most with my mare and its a case of seeing what suits your horse.
Ani xx

I've tried quite a few things including Copra Meal which he seemed to like but went off quite quickly (he is a bit fussy in his old age). So at the moment he is on D&H 16 +, D&H Competition Mix, Milk Pellets, Alfa A, readygrass, adlib haylage and is turned out during the day in a small paddock near the outdoor school as he frets if he can't see what's going on! He has Maxaflex for his arthritis (which he has only been on a few weeks and is working amazingly) and Pink Powder Senior. I'm going to start him on Yea Sacc and Milk Thistle from this weekend.

A few weeks ago the vet was talking about maybe having to consider his quality of life but he seems to have turned a corner now and I want to build on that if I can...

Cheers

B

 

[aniford]

I've tried quite a few things including Copra Meal which he seemed to like but went off quite quickly (he is a bit fussy in his old age). So at the moment he is on D&H 16 +, D&H Competition Mix, Milk Pellets, Alfa A, readygrass, adlib haylage and is turned out during the day in a small paddock near the outdoor school as he frets if he can't see what's going on! He has Maxaflex for his arthritis (which he has only been on a few weeks and is working amazingly) and Pink Powder Senior. I'm going to start him on Yea Sacc and Milk Thistle from this weekend.

A few weeks ago the vet was talking about maybe having to consider his quality of life but he seems to have turned a corner now and I want to build on that if I can...

Cheers

B

Thats an awful lot of cereal protein for an old horse to digest but if its working stick with it. I would consider feeding more easily digestible forms of feed though.
Good Luck
Ani

 

[horsebenny]

Thats an awful lot of cereal protein for an old horse to digest but if its working stick with it. I would consider feeding more easily digestible forms of feed though.
Good Luck
Ani

Yeah, it is a lot but it's over quite a few small feeds. Problem is he will turn his nose up at what he doesn't like so it's trying to hit on what he will eat and make the most of that!

B

 

[aniford]

Yeah, it is a lot but it's over quite a few small feeds. Problem is he will turn his nose up at what he doesn't like so it's trying to hit on what he will eat and make the most of that!

B

I can empathise with that statement! Rice bran and fibre nuts work with my mare but I had to add peppermint cordial when I introduced them to her diet. Not sure what the equine nutritionist's or the vet's would make of that but it worked so I dont really care!
Ani