weight loss-unexplained-neurological disorders?

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aniford

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Hi
my physio said something to me about 'shivers' and Holly probably having had shivers for a long time, though quite mildly. Ive known for some years that she was borderline 'shivers', presumably this gets worse with age?
I started thinking maybe rather than metabolic her condition is due to something neurological.
Neurological conditions? Anyone know of anything that would cause:
a) Gradual weight loss with periods of gain, stabilisation and then loss again
b) Muscle wastage, particularly over hind quarters
c) Hind legs swing in walk
d) Tendancy to trip, slip, slide and occasionally fall (falls with both fronts down first and hind quarter slips have been known with Holly, always been a clumsy horse)
e) Huge appetite
f) lack of sweating unless extremely agitated
g) Behavioural swings -normal-lethargic-manic,agitated and stressed (over periods of weeks these mood swings occur. the manic usually coincides with every other/third season)
Holly has always been classed as 'cold-backed'. Hanoverian X Tb
Any ideas folks?
Ani xx
 
Have you never consulted your vet about this ? I would be extremely concerned about a horse who falls over, even if it is only occasionally, because it is NOT something a horse should do ?
 
BigRed said:
Have you never consulted your vet about this ? I would be extremely concerned about a horse who falls over, even if it is only occasionally, because it is NOT something a horse should do ?
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Hi
of course it shouldnt, and yes the vet knows. Im sorry; I think I made it sound as if she falls over for no reason. There has usually been an explanation for her slipping or tripping but she has generally been a very clumsy, accident prone mare. That is unless she is working and switched on. She is not a mare you can sit on like a sack of spuds, you always have to keep her switched on or she will trip over her own feet. Maybe there is actually a reason for this rather than her just being clumsy?
Up until about 3yrs ago she was still showjumping, she has always been a very careful jumper and rarely had poles down, if she did I can honestly say that it was because I made a mistake, not her.
Thanks
Ani
 
TGM said:
Have you seen these resources on the link between EPSM and shivers?

http://www.ruralheritage.com/vet_clinic/epsm.htm

Would explain things like the muscle wastage etc.

But agree with other poster who said vet should really be called if the horse is actually falling.
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Hi
Thank you so much for that link! It is really interesting and may go some way to explaining some of whats going on with Holly. It may be off the mark but I am going to investigate further as there were a number of things that rang bells!
Ani
 
aniford said:
Hi

Up until about 3yrs ago she was still showjumping, she has always been a very careful jumper and rarely had poles down, if she did I can honestly say that it was because I made a mistake, not her.
Thanks
Ani
Click to expand...

I'm not suggesting every horse on this forum that has balance/tripping/falling issues has Wobblers but wobblers can cause a myriad of symptoms, one of which is weight loss, weakness, strange gait, swinging wide of hind legs, loss of balance (known as ataxia), strange canter (strongly pushing you upwards out of the saddle, not to be mistaken with a disunited canter which feels completely different), strong through the neck, etc, etc.

My horse, a ten year old WB developed wobblers or more probably CVM following a traumatic injury to his neck after rearing and falling over backwards. He developed ataxia (swaying/drunkeness state) immediately but also went on to have three separate periods of ataxia before he was referred to Liverpool, whereupon receiving very detailed xrays of his neck he was declared wobblers syndrome/CVM and was immediately PTS on humane grounds.

In March/April, of 2004 he was competing in BSJA BN and Disco classes and getting the odd double clear. He was obviously undiagnosed at this time although we realised there was some kind of problem with him we did not know what and it was intermittent at this stage. He was PTS in June 2004.

This explains the symptoms in more detail and the sway test which is quite a good test for suspected neuro cases as is the foot placement test. My horse would stand quite happily with one foot either touching the other (totally unnatural stance for a horse) or with one foot on top of the other. That's scary when you see that for the first time, believe you me. I think you should try to get your horse tested for neurological problems as soon as you can. It is quite distressing for the horse as they are a flight animal and not knowing where to put their feet, is quite an ordeal for them. And it will give you peace of mind one way or the other. At least you will know where you can go once you reach a diagnosis.
http://www.uky.edu/Ag/AnimalSciences/pubs/asc133.pdf
 
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aniford said:
Hi

a) Gradual weight loss with periods of gain, stabilisation and then loss again
b) Muscle wastage, particularly over hind quarters
c) Hind legs swing in walk
d) Tendancy to trip, slip, slide and occasionally fall (falls with both fronts down first and hind quarter slips have been known with Holly, always been a clumsy horse)
Click to expand...

this all points to some kind of gait problem caused by a neuro type of condition of some sort. These horses are usually described as clumsy due to their lack of co-ordination as the brain signals are not correctly reaching the limbs.

Grass sickness would not cause a horse to stabilise once weight has been lost, grass sickness horses lose weight quickly but do not regain then lose again, and they do not have gait abnormalities or swing their legs sideways. Unless your horse has these symptoms due to the reason your physio is coming out. Get her checked by a vet and ask him to carry out a neuro test. I think you will get your answer.
 
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Hi, I may be well off the mark here, but your horse's symptoms sound a little like mine - also a Hannovarian.
I began to suspect wobblers after years of him tripping, losing his back end, falling in the field (fracturing his pelvis) and generally being uncoordinated and unbalanced. He is a big horse and always had amazing paces and is a very talented dressage horse, but like yours, needed to be 'ridden'. Any slopping about and he'd be falling over his own feet. Once he fell onto his knees while entering the arena during a test. He also had periods of lethargy and sudden manic-ness. He was tight in his neck and back, had girthing issues and just never seemed quite 'right'.

He began losing weight and muscle a couple of years ago and more recently fell again in his stable causing bad bruising to his pelvic area. The neurological tests (putting feet on top of each other etc.) seemed to point to him having a problem too and he was short, landing on his toes, couldn't walk down hills, swinging his legs, standing on his own feet behind...

My vet x rayed his neck but couldn't find the source of the problem until during a four hour work up we put him on a small circle on hard ground and the problem became more than clear - he was 4/10 lame bilaterally. So, it turned out to be his feet that were the problem and navicular syndrome was diagnosed. I hate to think how long this had been going on and will feel guilty for ever :(
I decided to go the barefoot route and we haven't looked back. Now he never trips, is gaining muscle every day, goes better than ever, stands square all the time, is sound and soft through his back, has an amazing outline and even when he hoolies in the field I don't have to panic that he's going to fall over :D Just food for thought.
 
applecart14 said:
this all points to some kind of gait problem caused by a neuro type of condition of some sort. These horses are usually described as clumsy due to their lack of co-ordination as the brain signals are not correctly reaching the limbs.

Grass sickness would not cause a horse to stabilise once weight has been lost, grass sickness horses lose weight quickly but do not regain then lose again, and they do not have gait abnormalities or swing their legs sideways. Unless your horse has these symptoms due to the reason your physio is coming out. Get her checked by a vet and ask him to carry out a neuro test. I think you will get your answer.
Click to expand...

OK, Thanks apple.
I do think she has some sort of underlying neuro problem but she has had shivers type symptoms since she was about 8, after a period of incorrect shoeing that took 18mths to correct with therapeutic shoeing and physio.
The vet hasnt even considered neuro type problems, Im waiting to speak to him again about her steroid dosage so will ask him.
Ani
 
donquixote said:
Hi, I may be well off the mark here, but your horse's symptoms sound a little like mine - also a Hannovarian.
I began to suspect wobblers after years of him tripping, losing his back end, falling in the field (fracturing his pelvis) and generally being uncoordinated and unbalanced. He is a big horse and always had amazing paces and is a very talented dressage horse, but like yours, needed to be 'ridden'. Any slopping about and he'd be falling over his own feet. Once he fell onto his knees while entering the arena during a test. He also had periods of lethargy and sudden manic-ness. He was tight in his neck and back, had girthing issues and just never seemed quite 'right'.

He began losing weight and muscle a couple of years ago and more recently fell again in his stable causing bad bruising to his pelvic area. The neurological tests (putting feet on top of each other etc.) seemed to point to him having a problem too and he was short, landing on his toes, couldn't walk down hills, swinging his legs, standing on his own feet behind...

My vet x rayed his neck but couldn't find the source of the problem until during a four hour work up we put him on a small circle on hard ground and the problem became more than clear - he was 4/10 lame bilaterally. So, it turned out to be his feet that were the problem and navicular syndrome was diagnosed. I hate to think how long this had been going on and will feel guilty for ever :(
I decided to go the barefoot route and we haven't looked back. Now he never trips, is gaining muscle every day, goes better than ever, stands square all the time, is sound and soft through his back, has an amazing outline and even when he hoolies in the field I don't have to panic that he's going to fall over :D Just food for thought.
Click to expand...

OMG! That so sounds exactly like Holly! I did try to have all her shoes taken off but she couldnt cope with front ones off, she just got very lame. She doesnt have back ones on, about 8wks ago she was hooleying round the field and pulled tendons over one of her back fetlocks, the small calcification that was above the hoof on the pastern has exploded into a full blown ring bone. She is on a bute a day for the ring bone and is sound, she was 4/10ths lame on flexion with no bute, 2/10ths before flexion.
Thanks
Ani
 
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