Weight of hay needed for weightloss - can someone remind me?

FrankieCob said:
You seem to want to take offence in anything thats said to you. Where has anyone slated you for feeding ad lib hay?! But just for the record, the two options you mention in your post arent they only ones, the others are just more work and more money and therefore you will have untold reasons why you cant do those either. My horse is losing weight with constant food. My small, fat, incredibly good doer cob. There are ways of feeding good doers adlib and not have them gain weight.
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Because when people write utter tosh like "I'd be more worried about reducing the hay of a colickly horse than I would ever be about straw"
it kind of grates on me. If I hadn't of starved him like the vet asked me to I would still have a horse with his colon stuck between his gut wall and his spleen and in lots of pain.

And if I hadn't reduced his hay according to vets advise following the colic then I would (due to the increase in grass) have a very overweight horse. It difference in his energy levels since reducing his hay hasn't gone unnoticed.
 
EQUIDAE said:
But I wasn't and you quoted me - I was talking first cut and second cut hay. I'm well aware of how it works - I grow my own hay specifically for sugar contents (except last year when the weather was pants and I ended up with standing foggage)
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I know, I was trying to throw light on a complex subject, not for you but for the others reading this thread.
 
applecart14 said:
Because when people write utter tosh like "I'd be more worried about reducing the hay of a colickly horse than I would ever be about straw"
it kind of grates on me. If I hadn't of starved him like the vet asked me to I would still have a horse with his colon stuck between his gut wall and his spleen and in lots of pain.

And if I hadn't reduced his hay according to vets advise following the colic then I would (due to the increase in grass) have a very overweight horse. It difference in his energy levels since reducing his hay hasn't gone unnoticed.
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Just for clarification, I absolutely didn't mean when he was suffering colic, I meant generally. As I have previously stated, you can feed horses ad lib forage and not have them gain weight. I suspect not the way you manage yours, and absolutely not without some effort and expense.

I'm not sure how my opinion is utter tosh, but yours is right or why you have taken such umbrage with me disagreeing with you either. But its not utter tosh to be concerned about having a colic prone horse on a restricted diet.

Casey76 I hope you can come to an amicable arrangement. I know how difficult it is to try and manage your horse when your on a yard like yours. Hopefully it will all work out in the end.
 
Yes I understood FC, you meant a horse prone to colicing.
My frank has forage all the time but not adlib because is restricted with nets and muzzles ;) I am likeing his new nibbleze net that means I can feed him from the floor (no shoes advantage).
 
FrankieCob said:
Just for clarification, I absolutely didn't mean when he was suffering colic, I meant generally. As I have previously stated, you can feed horses ad lib forage and not have them gain weight. I suspect not the way you manage yours, and absolutely not without some effort and expense.

I'm not sure how my opinion is utter tosh, but yours is right or why you have taken such umbrage with me disagreeing with you either. But its not utter tosh to be concerned about having a colic prone horse on a restricted diet.

Casey76 I hope you can come to an amicable arrangement. I know how difficult it is to try and manage your horse when your on a yard like yours. Hopefully it will all work out in the end.
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He's only on 4lb less of hay a day than he was before and now he is out at grass more. His hard feed is smaller because I've reduced the amount of chaff although I don't think that a handful less of Dengie Good Doer will make much difference.

Our hay which the YO supplies (as part of the price) is off her fields for much of the year and is very good quality. His nets are thoroughly wet with a hose and have a bucket of water thrown over them too. I do them the night before as I cannot get down in the morning so I cannot leave them to soak overnight.

He is out at grass for three hours a day from yesterday - an increase of one hour from what he has been on in preparation for the beginning of June when they will all be going out overnight into the field which will be HUGELY sectioned off for my horse as previous years.

I am not sure what you mean by the sentence "I suspect not the way you manage yours, and absolutely not without some effort and expense". Am I to take that as NOT being rude?????

I understand it to mean that I manage mine incorrectly and don't put the effort and expense in. Maybe I have got that wrong and it would be nice if you could explain any other way I can manage my horse other than what I am doing now, because I for the life of me, can't see what else I could do.

Ester - Of course you agree with Frankie Cob. Why would I possibly think otherwise....... He is already (and always has been) fed out of small holed nets (one of the nets at night is double bagged). He cannot have a grazing muzzle on because no matter how tightly he has it put on he has always found a way to take it off and then he gorges and gets colic.
 
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I don't think she was being rude? You categorically state you are feeding good hay and grass. It is hard to ad lib a good doer on that. Even proper soaking for extended periods has shown to not really reduce the energy levels in hay so wetting with a hose and bucket of water will be doing diddly squat other than making it damp.

I wasn't agreeing with FC, just understood what she was getting at more than you seemed to, so I thought it kind to let her know that her post wasn't that confusing.

Re effort an expense I think FC is getting at the effort to fence in suitable areas (track systems are effort and expensive but work very well) and make slow feeders and find sources of either poor hay or straw to feed as forage.
I was also replying to FC's comment ' As I have previously stated, you can feed horses ad lib forage and not have them gain weight.' with my mention of the muzzle as in he always has forage but not free access to it.
Usually muzzles aren't a case of them being tight but teaching them how to use them, plaiting them in if required, with a field safe headcollar. It is a good option for many and I only said that I used one for F I wasn't suggesting it for you. Particularly as it isn't your thread anyway yet you seem to have made it all about your situation!?!
 
ester said:
Particularly as it isn't your thread anyway yet you seem to have made it all about your situation!?!
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I haven't tried to make it 'all about my situation' at all. I have just been replying to what people have written in response to someone suggesting to the OP that she give her horse straw mixed with hay and said that in my personal opinion I wouldn't do that.

But the thread always goes off course whenever I make a suggestion or comment because certain people can't resist a dig at my expense. I don't think you can blame me for that Equidae.
 
applecart14 said:
I haven't tried to make it 'all about my situation' at all. I have just been replying to what people have written in response to someone suggesting to the OP that she give her horse straw mixed with hay and said that in my personal opinion I wouldn't do that.

But the thread always goes off course whenever I make a suggestion or comment because certain people can't resist a dig at my expense. I don't think you can blame me for that Equidae.
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Eh hang on - it was me that said straw mixed with hay can work and work well - and it can. You said that it would be a bad move and gave incorrect reasons why. There's no harm in admitting you are wrong and have actually learned something from the forum.

And don't get all mard about people singling out you - you have done the exact same thing to me - look at who you quoted, it wasn't me. Pot-kettle and all that... Why did you choose to single out me and not ester?
 
Blimey, I never expected this to turn out to be such a saga ;)

From my POV, I've never had any issues with feeding straw, as long as it isn't the sole forage available. In France it is quite common for the horses to be expected to pick at their beds as generally the amount of hay they get is quite meager compared to the UK.

At the moment Tartine appears to be quite happy with her two small (3kg) wetted haynets, plus 10hrs muzzled turnout, plus 250ml (prior to soaking) agrobs hay cobs with supplement and extra magnesium.

:)
 
EQUIDAE said:
Eh hang on - it was me that said straw mixed with hay can work and work well - and it can. You said that it would be a bad move and gave incorrect reasons why. There's no harm in admitting you are wrong and have actually learned something from the forum.
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quite if you have good evidence for why you think something is a bad idea then share it, if you don't (and straw causing impaction colics really isn't one) than accept that others will disagree with you and provide evidence to back up what they say.
 
applecart14 said:
I haven't tried to make it 'all about my situation' at all. I have just been replying to what people have written in response to someone suggesting to the OP that she give her horse straw mixed with hay and said that in my personal opinion I wouldn't do that.

But the thread always goes off course whenever I make a suggestion or comment because certain people can't resist a dig at my expense. I don't think you can blame me for that Equidae.
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The problems come when you come up with a personal opinion that has no basis in fact.
I honestly can't see any digs, people disagreeing with you and pointing out the lack of evidence you have that helped you form that opinion is not digs.
 
applecart14 said:
Straw has a very high percentage of indigestible fibre so is more likely to cause an impaction, especially in winter when horses don't drink enough water. Impaction colic is more of a risk for horses on a diet of straw or any other type of tough, stemmy type forage. If you chop the straw into short pieces before feeding it can help to eliminate this problem but personally I wouldn't risk it. It is for that reason that I don't bed my horse on it (even though its always been included in the price of the livery package). I asked the vet a couple of weeks ago whether he considered it an impaction risk (Bailey loves eating straw - I only give him a handful very occasionally in his haynet) and he said he thought it was as he would eat his bed.

Depending on how and when it was cut, some straw which contains many of the grain seed heads can be as high in carbohydrates as good-quality grass hay. The indigestible fibre (which gives straw its shiny appearance) is not calorific but the actual body of the stalk may contain high amounts of digestible starch and carbohydrates.
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It does amuse me quite how much of this is lifted from the article you linked to, perhaps you should give credit next time?
 
applecart14 said:
I understand it to mean that I manage mine incorrectly and don't put the effort and expense in.
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Well if you want to put it like that I'm not going to argue with you! It has been pointed out by many people that your yard and management isnt ideal and local people have very kindly gone to the trouble to recommend other yards which was ignored.

Being stood in 22 hours a day with small hole haynets, then 2 hours on good grass would categorically not work for mine, which has been proven by my recent experience. There are untold posts by me about how I manage him and probably the same amount about what a struggle I've had. I am always happy to elaborate to anyone who is interested, but I would be completely wasting my time with you.

This isnt your thread and this hijacking isnt something I want to be involved with, so feel free to start another post if you want to discuss your horses management.
 
Casey76 said:
Blimey, I never expected this to turn out to be such a saga ;)

From my POV, I've never had any issues with feeding straw, as long as it isn't the sole forage available. In France it is quite common for the horses to be expected to pick at their beds as generally the amount of hay they get is quite meager compared to the UK.

At the moment Tartine appears to be quite happy with her two small (3kg) wetted haynets, plus 10hrs muzzled turnout, plus 250ml (prior to soaking) agrobs hay cobs with supplement and extra magnesium.

:)
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Glad its working out. Mine gets a handful of Agrobs and loves them :)
 
Well, happy to report the T's crest has softened up, the fat deposits along her neck have subsided, and she has lost 10kg (according to weight tape) this week.

So far, no complaints about the muzzle, and she is self supplementing straw for her hay (which she isn't finishing).

Happy owner and pony :)
 
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