Welfare Issue? - WWYD??

OP, have you actually looked under his rug? Is he in bad condition - it could be that he is a very good doer that eats all his bedding and does not need any more feed. Although it is not ideal that he is standing in his poo, if this picture was taken in the morning and he has eaten all his bedding over night I don't see any issues. Horses are not nesting animals and although they should not stand in poo and wee for extended periods it is a bit difficult to prevent over night.
 
Irishdan said:
Now thats interesting! I had always held the WHW in high regard until I have had the displeasure to witness this particular horses care over the last five years. Im certain years ago there was a very strict criteria which had to be met when adopting one of their horses but doesnt appear to be so now! Her stable must have been checked and it is way way too small for an animal his size. Not only that but he suffers from COPD and would probably benefit from being out 24/7. It would appear she has had no advise/education from WHW:/
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Me too, particularly on the rehoming front, until I saw a small pony they had rehomed come back for an Open Day appearance so blooming fat I would have reported it to them, had it not already been one of theirs! Also, they rehomed to a family* I know are less than careful and I did report back on certain things (to head office, as I was advised to) but received no assurances the matter was being looked into.

I give my money to Brooke, now. Shame as Lee Hackettt is THE MAN when it comes to common sense and action, in the first instance.

* Was prepared to give thr benefit of the doubt as the pony was supposedly under WHW FO scrutiny, but it didn't take long for them to be using it as a free tool...
 
I would put your concerns in writing rather higher up the food chain. From the pic with the rug on, it does look like he doesn't exactly fill it over the top, although that could just be the way he is standing.
I would agree if the FO was involved in rehoming he could now be covering his own backside.
For me, no matter how fat a horse is, it should not be left without any food for 15 + hours, other ways would need to be looked at for keeping the weight off.
Good luck with this, I had thought they were rather better at keeping an eye on horses they rehomed.
 
mcnaughty said:
OP, have you actually looked under his rug? Is he in bad condition - it could be that he is a very good doer that eats all his bedding and does not need any more feed. Although it is not ideal that he is standing in his poo, if this picture was taken in the morning and he has eaten all his bedding over night I don't see any issues. Horses are not nesting animals and although they should not stand in poo and wee for extended periods it is a bit difficult to prevent over night.
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Well it is now 1.10 and horse is still in stable. By my reckoning he has had no hay since about 6.30 last night and there was minimal straw left by back of 10. The advise on the WHW page is that horses should eat 18 out of 24 hours a day and if my sums are correct this poor horse has gone at least 15 hours with nothing. He is currently banging at his door. All my instincts are telling me to let them all out(there are also two ponies) but I know I would land myself in bother.
McNaughty, the pic was taken at the back of 10 last night when he had finished his haylage and most of his bedding. It is now the back of 1 in the afternoon and he is still standing there! I have not seen under his rug recently. He is almost deffo pure ID and has never ever had the covering to match his bone. I see how much haylage he gets and like I said I give my donkey more. The only thing that is keeping this horse going is the fact he eats his bedding. In my shoes what would you do?? I have two horses which are in at night and one and a donkey out 24/7. The first thing I do every morning at 6.30 is see to them and I assume 99% of horse owners do the same. I would be ill if I thought my horses were standing inside all that time with no food:/

I could cry!
 
For heavens sake just how much neglect does this poor horse need to suffer before they do something? They are supposed to be helping not ignoring neglect!
I must be naive to think they would act quickly.
 
Irishdan... Start a diary in addition to hounding whw.

I'd be inclined to take a photo of bedding and feed each time you are up with a time stamp camera (phone) if possible. Then after a week of photos and notes of when whw have been contacted over all and their response I'd send to someone well over the FO's head.
 
Do not know if WHW has a face book page, I am going to look and see, and if they have, will comment on this post. I had a irish draught cross at one time, and noway, would that amount of feeding done him, he would have been skin and bone in no time at all. Makes me so cross if this thread is true, and I must say it seems to be so. WHW are there to care for horses, and what makes me want to cry, is if this horse was rescued by them, cared for by them, he must be wondering what on earth he did wrong to return to horrible situation. Yes I know I am putting human emotions on an animal, but they must feel something. If WHW do not have page on face book, I am going to email them. So cross.
 
Freddie19 said:
Do not know if WHW has a face book page, I am going to look and see, and if they have, will comment on this post. I had a irish draught cross at one time, and noway, would that amount of feeding done him, he would have been skin and bone in no time at all. Makes me so cross if this thread is true, and I must say it seems to be so. WHW are there to care for horses, and what makes me want to cry, is if this horse was rescued by them, cared for by them, he must be wondering what on earth he did wrong to return to horrible situation. Yes I know I am putting human emotions on an animal, but they must feel something. If WHW do not have page on face book, I am going to email them. So cross.
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Freddie, I promise you it is all 100% accurate and I am in no way trying to embelish things.

Horse finally let out stable between 1 and 3 pm. He had all but finished his haylage by time I took this pic at about 3.30
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Back in his stable. Pic taken at ten to five. Here you go - thats his lot! What does everyone think?? Good doer or not, my business or not. IMO this is not enough for a horse of his size and build:/

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eh in the pics his neck actually looks fine... without a rug off pic it's impossible to say and i wonder are you over -thinking this. he also has a rubber mat under what you call his 'measly' straw bed....
 
Agree Suzie. From images I can see doesn't look too bad. But 15 hours inside with that forage I wouldn't be happy. Is he hard fed too (hanging bucket) and owner efibitely not down more?
If just over winter then is probably just saving ground. Belly does look odd to me but as I said that's through squinting!
 
SusieT said:
eh in the pics his neck actually looks fine... without a rug off pic it's impossible to say and i wonder are you over -thinking this. he also has a rubber mat under what you call his 'measly' straw bed....
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Susie T - I have never once mentioned his lack of bedding! IMO its the only thing stopping the poor beast becoming a bag of bones! I am not over thinking anything - I am sick of having to witness it day in day out! Do you think its ok to stable a horse fro 15 hours plus with no forage?? Just because he doesnt appear to be skinny doesnt make it right! Also please bear in mind what a well covered ID looks like!
 
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In the stabled picture where his head is up, I think it shows he's more poor than he seems, there's a dip between neck and withers (though I appreciate this could just be lack of topline) ETA - how have you got on reporting him again today? There's no shame in nagging.
 
PonyIAmNotFood said:
In the stabled picture where his head is up, I think it shows he's more poor than he seems, there's a dip between neck and withers (though I appreciate this could just be lack of topline) ETA - how have you got on reporting him again today? There's no shame in nagging.
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WHW welfare phone line not open till Monday! Am starting to think Im wasting my time really. Im just so fed up seeing this day in day out esp when the poor beast can see my lot getting ad lib hay in the field next to him. He must be 20 years old now, poor thing gets looked after like hes a Shetland pony!
 
PonyIAmNotFood said:
In the stabled picture where his head is up, I think it shows he's more poor than he seems, there's a dip between neck and withers (though I appreciate this could just be lack of topline) ETA - how have you got on reporting him again today? There's no shame in nagging.
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If he's nearly 20 then he is more than likely just lacking in muscle now, hence the appearance that he has a large belly poking out of the rug, but a dip between neck and withers.
 
If ID it looks odd though. We've a breeder in the family and he keeps all retired broodies (and several geldings he falls in love with or rides) none have the belly like that where it's almost ball shaped, all have a barrel shape that carries on through chest. Even with muscle wastage.
Admittedly though he looks more a cross to me than pure though. So would mean nothing as our ID crosses are a huge range of shapes and sizes.
 
I really do not know what more to add. Without seeing the horse unrugged it is very difficult to tell but he does not look in poor condition IMO. He does go out a bit late but perhaps she is trying to protect her grazing in the recent bad weather conditions. Pile of haylage isn't too bad and he is finishing off his bedding too which is on top of rubber matting.

Contact WHW on Monday and take their decision as a final word on the matter.
 
What makes me angry here is the lack of management for this elderly guy. Being shut in for that amount of time, the lack of attention and forage! I don't care if he does not look 'that bad' or whatever but he deserves a whole lot better! And he belongs to a welfare association!
 
If you looked in my mares stable you would probably have a fit at the haylage she is left with! You would see 'bedding' piled up, which is in fact extra forrage, you wouldn't know that she gets the same (highly regulated) amount of haylage at about midnight. We feed ours according to their needs, rather than for anyone else's perception of their needs. It may not be the way you would keep your horse, but it is obviously how this woman keeps hers and the Field Officer has been satisfied with the condition of the horse. If you are concerned with the condition of the animal (which none of us can comment on, as all pictures are of the horse rugged) then by all means continue to demand action from WHW. I would however caution that you take a little care, as this could be seen as a form of harrassment of the owner.
 
Tormenta said:
What makes me angry here is the lack of management for this elderly guy. Being shut in for that amount of time, the lack of attention and forage! I don't care if he does not look 'that bad' or whatever but he deserves a whole lot better! And he belongs to a welfare association!
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Thank you Tormenta. My thoughts exactly :)

McNaughty, she is not trying to save her grazing, I can promise you that. Regardless of condition, or lack of it, anyone who leaves a horse in a stable for over fifteen hours with no feeding does not deserve, in my opinion, to own a horse, let alone taking care of one on behalf of a welfare charity.
 
FestiveG said:
If you looked in my mares stable you would probably have a fit at the haylage she is left with! You would see 'bedding' piled up, which is in fact extra forrage, you wouldn't know that she gets the same (highly regulated) amount of haylage at about midnight. We feed ours according to their needs, rather than for anyone else's perception of their needs. It may not be the way you would keep your horse, but it is obviously how this woman keeps hers and the Field Officer has been satisfied with the condition of the horse. If you are concerned with the condition of the animal (which none of us can comment on, as all pictures are of the horse rugged) then by all means continue to demand action from WHW. I would however caution that you take a little care, as this could be seen as a form of harrassment of the owner.
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See now this is what I am up against! Horse lover?? Really?? Is it acceptable for any horse to go that length without eating given that the WHW recommend that they should be eating 18 out of 24 hours?? I give up!! :( :(
 
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You mentioned in an earlier post that he'd had a nasty fall and now walks sideways - is that still the case? If so it sounds as though he has damaged his pelvis (I have met only two horses that walked "crab-wise" and both of those were later diagnosed with pelvis fractures).

Would it be worth pushing this point?
 
Irishdan said:
See now this is what I am up against! Horse lover?? Really??
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Ok, can you tell me, what is an objective condition score for this horse? How much time do you spend at the yard? How catagoricaly certain are you that she does not go to the yard when you are not there? Does she keep the horse in because of whatever damage the horse sustained in the fall? Does she have regular visits from farrier/trimmer? Which vet and farrier/trimmer does she use?
 
Bertthefrog said:
You mentioned in an earlier post that he'd had a nasty fall and now walks sideways - is that still the case? If so it sounds as though he has damaged his pelvis (I have met only two horses that walked "crab-wise" and both of those were later diagnosed with pelvis fractures).

Would it be worth pushing this point?
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Yes, he does. He has almost certainly got something going on as he has horrendous muscle wastage on one side of his quarters:/
 
Irishdan said:
See now this is what I am up against! Horse lover?? Really?? Is it acceptable for any horse to go that length without eating given that the WHW recommend that they should be eating 18 out of 24 hours?? I give up!! :( :(
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No it's not acceptable. You sound as if you are doing the right thing by pushing the matter.

I do agree that it is sometimes difficult to ensure horses are provided with forage to last them 18 hours, given work commitments that some owners may have. But it shouldn't be a regular thing, and there are ways around it, if she is struggling to get up there to feed.

As for it being seen as 'harrassment' of the owner, who cares, provided that you are telling the truth about the situation and are not acting maliciously. If it gets the horse's welfare dealt with then nobody can criticise you for your actions.
 
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