Welfare Issue? - WWYD??

Moomince Pie said:
No it's not acceptable. You sound as if you are doing the right thing by pushing the matter.

I do agree that it is sometimes difficult to ensure horses are provided with forage to last them 18 hours, given work commitments that some owners may have. But it shouldn't be a regular thing, and there are ways around it, if she is struggling to get up there to feed.

As for it being seen as 'harrassment' of the owner, who cares, provided that you are telling the truth about the situation and are not acting maliciously. If it gets the horse's welfare dealt with then nobody can criticise you for your actions.
Click to expand...

But the problem is, without knowing the answers to the questions I posted after the one quoted by the OP, no-one knows what the objective situation is, expecially in light of the comment about the woman being perceived as difficult, it suggests harrasment as a possibility.
 
Irishdan said:
Yes, he does. He has almost certainly got something going on as he has horrendous muscle wastage on one side of his quarters:/
Click to expand...

Poor chap.

Five Freedoms.... The right to be free from pain (or words to that effect) - not to mention access to feed/express natural behaviour etc.

Don't know what else to say to help - you must be pulling your hair out :(
 
Have you seen the horse unrugged recently, and if so what would be the horse's condition score? I'm not doubting any of what you are saying, and well done you for being concerned, but probably the majority of horses that are not on adlib forage are in fact without for at least 10 hours overnight. One of mine, greedy little begger, will have a bed that looks like this horse's in the morning despite being decidedly chubby and having a decent straw bed down every night.
 
FestiveG said:
But the problem is, without knowing the answers to the questions I posted after the one quoted by the OP, no-one knows what the objective situation is, expecially in light of the comment about the woman being perceived as difficult, it suggests harrasment as a possibility.
Click to expand...

I fully agree FestiveG, the facts do need to be ascertained, and things cannot always be as they seem. But OP said that it was the WHW officer who commented about the woman being difficult, which doesn't necessarily suggest to me that OP is being malicious. I am the first one to suspect people are exaggerating though, which is why I have said a few times that 'if' the situation is correct, then OP is right to pursue it further. If it's not correct, and OP is jumping to conclusions and making wild assumptions, then I would find it highly irritating that yet another person is wasting a charity's time by making complaints.

Just looked at the pic of the hay in the corner of the stable. IF that is all he is getting until 1pm the following day then that is unacceptable.
 
Last edited:
Moomince Pie said:
I fully agree FestiveG, the facts do need to be ascertained, and things cannot always be as they seem. But OP said that it was the WHW officer who commented about the woman being difficult, which doesn't necessarily suggest to me that OP is being malicious. I am the first one to suspect people are exaggerating though, which is why I have said a few times that 'if' the situation is correct, then OP is right to pursue it further. If it's not correct, and OP is jumping to conclusions and making wild assumptions, then I would find it highly irritating that yet another person is wasting a charity's time by making complaints.

Just looked at the pic of the hay in the corner of the stable. IF that is all he is getting until 1pm the following day then that is unacceptable.
Click to expand...

Agree if that is all he is getting, but the staw piled up, rather than put down as bedding, suggests to me that he getting more forage than suggested, by the pile of haylage. I know of other members on here who feed straw as forage for horses who easily run to fat. Sisters big mare gets a tub trug of chopped staw, refilled at midnight, as she colics on long straw. Mine doesn't colic on it, so gets it piled up on the floor.
 
FestiveG said:
Ok, can you tell me, what is an objective condition score for this horse? How much time do you spend at the yard? How catagoricaly certain are you that she does not go to the yard when you are not there? Does she keep the horse in because of whatever damage the horse sustained in the fall? Does she have regular visits from farrier/trimmer? Which vet and farrier/trimmer does she use?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I cant do an objective conditioning score for you as not seen horse without a rug since Summer but promise you he has always looked poor! I assure you I am at the yard often enough to know when she has been and not been. My other half spent two nights in his youngsters stable a few weeks back when she was colicing and no sign of her at night. The fall has nothing to do with the horse standing in for hours with no forage! No regular farrier but horse always shod when he does come out. Here you go
DSCN1532Large.jpg

DSCN1530Large.jpg


Now, tell me Festive, if you left your beloved? mare to the WHW would you be happy with that?? Ive no idea what your problem is - do you know owner LOL? Please dont bother to reply again - youve made your views obvious and yes we certainly do have different views on horse care!
 
Irishdan said:
Sorry, I cant do an objective conditioning score for you as not seen horse without a rug since Summer but promise you he has always looked poor! I assure you I am at the yard often enough to know when she has been and not been. My other half spent two nights in his youngsters stable a few weeks back when she was colicing and no sign of her at night. The fall has nothing to do with the horse standing in for hours with no forage! No regular farrier but horse always shod when he does come out. Here you go
DSCN1532Large.jpg

DSCN1530Large.jpg


Now, tell me Festive, if you left your beloved? mare to the WHW would you be happy with that?? Ive no idea what your problem is - do you know owner LOL? Please dont bother to reply again - youve made your views obvious and yes we certainly do have different views on horse care!
Click to expand...

How recent is this pic OP?

Those feet are not acceptable either. Not horrific, but certainly not acceptable and a poor do considering horse is from WHW. :(
 
Moomince Pie said:
I fully agree FestiveG, the facts do need to be ascertained, and things cannot always be as they seem. But OP said that it was the WHW officer who commented about the woman being difficult, which doesn't necessarily suggest to me that OP is being malicious. I am the first one to suspect people are exaggerating though, which is why I have said a few times that 'if' the situation is correct, then OP is right to pursue it further. If it's not correct, and OP is jumping to conclusions and making wild assumptions, then I would find it highly irritating that yet another person is wasting a charity's time by making complaints.

Just looked at the pic of the hay in the corner of the stable. IF that is all he is getting until 1pm the following day then that is unacceptable.
Click to expand...

I can assure you I am not exaggerating! Yes, it was the field officer who said she was 'difficult' !
 
Any further discussion on this post is pointless.

Op needs to speak to the YO, and then update us when the WHW have been spoken to on Monday, and reviewed the horse themselves.

And op, why not just whip the rug off to look at the horse properly? And put more hay in the stable?
 
amymay said:
Any further discussion on this post is pointless.

Op needs to speak to the YO, and then update us when the WHW have been spoken to on Monday, and reviewed the horse themselves.

And op, why not just whip the rug off to look at the horse properly? And put more hay in the stable?
Click to expand...


Because I dont have the bottle to! Its hard enough for me to take photos! Without meaning to be rude and not wishing to cause harrasment to the woman, she is well scary and potentially a threat to my well being - and I am being deadly serious here!:/ :/
 
amymay said:
Any further discussion on this post is pointless.

Op needs to speak to the YO, and then update us when the WHW have been spoken to on Monday, and reviewed the horse themselves.

And op, why not just whip the rug off to look at the horse properly? And put more hay in the stable?
Click to expand...

Putting hay in the stable is the worst thing OP can do. It needs to be left for the WHW officer to see the exact situ. And tbh, it shouldn't be down to OP to be putting any hay in daily.
 
Now, tell me Festive, if you left your beloved? mare to the WHW would you be happy with that?? Ive no idea what your problem is - do you know owner LOL? Please dont bother to reply again - youve made your views obvious and yes we certainly do have different views on horse care![/QUOTE]

I have no particular problem, but felt that in respons to the increasingly hysterical posting on here, that it was worth asking a few questions, such as do YOU know the name of her farrier and vet, as if you don't then there may well be other things that you don't know. I suggested that rather than the horse having only haylage as forage, that she was actively feeding straw (many a laminitic has survived because of being fed staw) Now I may be wrong, but thought that the field officer had agreed with you that she was difficult, rather than volunteering that information (and in fact if he did he was behaving somewhat unprofessionaly). We are all entitiled to our own view.
 
Oh for goodness sake Moomin.

And irishdan, get a grip.

Let us know when you finally speak to yo and whw.

I would also stop plastering photos of this persons horse all over the internet.
 
FestiveG said:
Now, tell me Festive, if you left your beloved? mare to the WHW would you be happy with that?? Ive no idea what your problem is - do you know owner LOL? Please dont bother to reply again - youve made your views obvious and yes we certainly do have different views on horse care!
Click to expand...

I have no particular problem, but felt that in respons to the increasingly hysterical posting on here, that it was worth asking a few questions, such as do YOU know the name of her farrier and vet, as if you don't then there may well be other things that you don't know. I suggested that rather than the horse having only haylage as forage, that she was actively feeding straw (many a laminitic has survived because of being fed staw) Now I may be wrong, but thought that the field officer had agreed with you that she was difficult, rather than volunteering that information (and in fact if he did he was behaving somewhat unprofessionaly). We are all entitiled to our own view.[/QUOTE]


Ahhhh! Yes I do know the name, address and tel number of her Vet and farrier. Horse is not some laminitic Shetland for goodness sake! If she were replacing haylage with straw surely she would put more down and not expect him to eat the straw he had pooed and peed on! And why exactly would you do that with a 20 year old 17.2 horse? Professional or not, the FO commented to me thats how he found her - I think his exact words were 'difficult character'. If you had the misfortune to meet her Im sure you would agree!
 
The feet are not acceptable no. however you are now backtracking and saying its the time in and not that he's 'that' skinny unless i'm misreading you? do you have any pics of your horses to compare?
 
amymay said:
Oh for goodness sake Moomin.

And irishdan, get a grip.

Let us know when you finally speak to yo and whw.

I would also stop plastering photos of this persons horse all over the internet.
Click to expand...

If I was OP I would be highly unlikely to let you know anything with that attitude! :eek:

Why take things so personally? I merely pointed out that it's not a good idea for OP to be starting to feed this person's horse without them knowing. If the WHW officer turns up and sees a load of hay in there, put in by OP, what use would that be? Secondly, if there is a genuine reason why the owner does not give any more hay, then if I was that owner and I found out someone had been putting hay in without my knowledge, I would be furious. Thirdly, if OP tells the owner they are putting extra hay in, it removes the responsibility from the owner, and OP will end up in a catch 22 situation.
 
amymay said:
Oh for goodness sake Moomin.

And irishdan, get a grip.

Let us know when you finally speak to yo and whw.

I would also stop plastering photos of this persons horse all over the internet.
Click to expand...


Look, I am a really nice, well meaning person and I so dont deserve crap like this Amymay! Cheers for your support but I totally give up!
 
SusieT said:
The feet are not acceptable no. however you are now backtracking and saying its the time in and not that he's 'that' skinny unless i'm misreading you? do you have any pics of your horses to compare?
Click to expand...

But even if the other stuff is rubbish and made up, then as long as that photo of the feet is genuine and a true representation of the condition of the horse's feet at this time, then that is all that matters. Those feet are not acceptable for any horse, nevermind one that belongs to WHW.
 
His feet look horrid and he doesn't look as if he is treated to a life of luxury, he could do with more forage sure but I don't buy the 'daren't take his rugs off' line.

If I was that concerned I would be checking him over, rugs off, pictures taken to ascertain exactly how poor he is. Look, he is being fed, he has water, he has shelter. Not my idea of horse care but there we go.

Get the rug off and work out how poor he is Op, then go to the WHW with your evidence.
 
[Ahhhh! Yes I do know the name, address and tel number of her Vet and farrier. Horse is not some laminitic Shetland for goodness sake! If she were replacing haylage with straw surely she would put more down and not expect him to eat the straw he had pooed and peed on! And why exactly would you do that with a 20 year old 17.2 horse? Professional or not, the FO commented to me thats how he found her - I think his exact words were 'difficult character'. If you had the misfortune to meet her Im sure you would agree![/QUOTE]

Sisters mare is a 20 year old 16hh Westphalian Warmblood, she is fed on straw chaff to suplement her haylage, as otherwise she woud be a prime candidate for laminitis, my own mare is a 15.2 Appy (arab and TB blood lines) who also has haylage supplemented with straw to assist with weight control. Not a shetland in sight.
 
BillieBlitzen said:
His feet look horrid and he doesn't look as if he is treated to a life of luxury, he could do with more forage sure but I don't buy the 'daren't take his rugs off' line.

If I was that concerned I would be checking him over, rugs off, pictures taken to ascertain exactly how poor he is. Look, he is being fed, he has water, he has shelter. Not my idea of horse care but there we go.

Get the rug off and work out how poor he is Op, then go to the WHW with your evidence.
Click to expand...


Whether you buy it or not its the way it is. I can PM where the horse is if you like and you can come over and risk her wrath! Its very hard having to witness this poor horses care daily but then perhaps turning a blind eye and keeping my mouth shut is the way forward eh?
 
FestiveG said:
[Ahhhh! Yes I do know the name, address and tel number of her Vet and farrier. Horse is not some laminitic Shetland for goodness sake! If she were replacing haylage with straw surely she would put more down and not expect him to eat the straw he had pooed and peed on! And why exactly would you do that with a 20 year old 17.2 horse? Professional or not, the FO commented to me thats how he found her - I think his exact words were 'difficult character'. If you had the misfortune to meet her Im sure you would agree!
Click to expand...

Sisters mare is a 20 year old 16hh Westphalian Warmblood, she is fed on straw chaff to suplement her haylage, as otherwise she woud be a prime candidate for laminitis, my own mare is a 15.2 Appy (arab and TB blood lines) who also has haylage supplemented with straw to assist with weight control. Not a shetland in sight.[/QUOTE]

Ah well, that has to be it then! Silly me!
 
I'm not taking anything personally Moomin. But if the horse is not being given enough hay, and is thin because of it you simply don't stand by and watch it starve. You give it hay.

Irishdan, I have no doubt that you are lovely. I am not giving you crap, just suprised at the melodrama. As for giving up- there is nothing that any of us on here can do other than advise as we have. That is as a priority YO tomorrow. WHW on Monday.
 
Irishdan said:
Whether you buy it or not its the way it is. I can PM where the horse is if you like and you can come over and risk her wrath! Its very hard having to witness this poor horses care daily but then perhaps turning a blind eye and keeping my mouth shut is the way forward eh?
Click to expand...

Not one person is suggesting that you should turn a blind eye or keep your mouth shut so why the drama?

Her wrath? So far you have already reported her and posted details all over the Internet - but you won't lift the rug and do the absolute necessary which is to check on the most recent condition of the horse? :rolleyes:


Confused.
 
Ah well, that has to be it then! Silly me![/QUOTE]

No I was merely pointing out that other equines apart from Shetlands may require calorie reduced feeding, as you appeared to think that was the case. A friend of mines father used to only feed straw as forrage to his brood mares, and then give straights as he judged they required.
 
amymay said:
I'm not taking anything personally Moomin. But if the horse is not being given enough hay, and is thin because of it you simply don't stand by and watch it starve. You give it hay.

Irishdan, I have no doubt that you are lovely. I am not giving you crap, just suprised at the melodrama. As for giving up- there is nothing that any of us on here can do other than advise as we have. That is as a priority YO tomorrow. WHW on Monday.
Click to expand...

I disagree Amymay. By somebody repeatedly providing food for the horse, building it's weight up, it may patch up the lack of care provided by the owner at this current time, but it does not address the issue once and for all. The relevant authorities, whoever it may be, need to be informed, and the horse left in the condition it is in, or living in, for the authorities to see.
 
amymay said:
I'm not taking anything personally Moomin. But if the horse is not being given enough hay, and is thin because of it you simply don't stand by and watch it starve. You give it hay.

Irishdan, I have no doubt that you are lovely. I am not giving you crap, just suprised at the melodrama. As for giving up- there is nothing that any of us on here can do other than advise as we have. That is as a priority YO tomorrow. WHW on Monday.
Click to expand...

Amymay, it is not melodrama - it is sheer frustration! I am NOT exagerating about this horses care NOR about the owner - trust me! I am not some silly kid, almost 45 but dont have a lot of confidence and certainly do not want to be involved in any kind of engagement with this woman! I will be in touch with WHW on Monday and give an update as soon as anything is hopefully done! :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top