Well done Denman!! But..a question...

[punk]

What a horse!!! Amazing!!

But... my question is about the difference in approach between eventing and racing -

As far as I am aware, chasers don't do a prolongued warm-up before the race, like we are encouraged to do before going on a 3-day x-c in eventing. Maybe I'm wrong?

Also - when Denman finished today, he was only trotted a few strides, and then walked back to the winners enclosure (2 or 3 minutes total?)

Once there, although still blowing hard and sweating profusely, a rug was immediately thrown over him, and he stood still, for some time- with his quite tight grakle noseband still done up. He was also offered a drink straight away (although he only took a mouth wash amount so I don't disagree with this).

Now I know he was probably washed down thoroughly and cooled off after this, but it is totally different to the recommended procedure in 3-day events, where long- warm-up before, and immediate cooling and walking after is thought to be paramount.

I'm just puzzled, as with horses of this value, obviously the best care and attention is always of utmost importance, so this must be seen as perfectly OK.
I know it is cold at this time of year, but it does seem to be the usual treatment throuout the year in racing (although I have seen some washed down in the winner's enclosure)

I'm not in any way being critical of either approach - just pondering why there is such a different approach in the two disciplines.

 

[TableDancer]

Didn't see it but I'm thrilled to hear - I love Denman, well done to him

Setting up a cracking season battling KS

When you think about it, they do walk smartly round the paddock for about 15 minutes, then they canter down to the first fence and back to the start, then they walk again, which does add up to some kind of warm-up. After the race, the drink is relatively new in racing (last 5-10 years?) and I think they have learnt this from other equestrian sports like eventing/endurance. I have been taught (by those who know a lot

) that letting the horse drink anything up to half a bucket straight away is fine, and the old-fashioned dictum of not letting a hot horse drink (think Black Beauty) is just that. The washing down that we are taught in eventing is all about aggressive cooling of the core temperature but all the big events are at times of year where the ambient temp is likely to be a lot higher than today, so perhaps it isn't as important - we learnt about it when they did all that research for Atlanta, where the temp and humidity were expected to be sky high... So the only real mystery to me is the walking while they get their breath back - I agree, I understand this to be important so don't know why they don't do it. I do think racing tends to be surprisingly backward-thinking though - where else in equestrian sport would we be told that a top class horse couldn't perform when the track ran in a certain direction

we would school them to remove the stiffness! BTW, did you get my email?

 

[Gamebird]

In my experience (lower level chasing and PTPs) the approach isn't enormously different, barring the absence of a practice fence for racehorses (though they do take them for a look at a fence first

).

Before a race the horses are walked in the paddock for 15-20 mins (ask anyone who has had to lead one up.... it's a LONG time!) including the last few minutes with a jockey on their backs. They they get a reasonably long canter to the start (depending on the course and start position) then another walk until they are off.

After the race most horses are walked, unsaddled, walked, washed, rugged and walked again. I would say it is the norm to loosen nosebands and move browbands back behind the ears - I missed the bit after the Gold Cup today so no idea why they didn't untie Denman's noseband. I think the exception would be the winner and the placed horses who have to stay in the winners' enclosure until after the jockeys have weighed in. This, plus the inevitable media attention in a big race means that the winner ends up doing much less walking than the also-rans. Bad but probably unavoidable.

I think both camps sing from the same hymn sheet - and go to the lorry park at any PTP (accessible to public whereas the stable area of a racecourse isn't) and you will see horses being walked for an eternity after they have run. The differing formats of the sports mean that there are slightly different approaches.

As for the drinking I was told a couple of years ago that the best time to get a horse to drink is immediately after its XC round/race. Not more than half a bucket or so, and not ice cold but they often have the urge to drink at that point which means that you can easily get some fluid into them. Works for my horses but everyone is very individual when it comes to watering horses.

Ask Millbrooksong later - she events and works for a top NH yard and will probably have more insight than me.

It just remains to be said - bloody hell, can that horse jump!

 

[Gamebird]

And it would seem that TD and I also sing from the same hymn sheet!......

 

[TableDancer]

Cor, GB, nice to know we're on the same wavelength - snap

 

[Gamebird]

Have thought about Denman's noseband now - don't suppose it was so that he looked smart for the post-race publicity shots?

 

[punk]

Thank you both!!! You two experts are right - hadn't thought how long they are walking in the paddock! Although the canter down to the start always seems quite short, it maybe isn't!!

You can tell that I am an eventer - and rarely watch racing except Channel 4 on a Saturday if I'm in - and the Grand National!! Probably doesn't give me a balanced view of things - just as watching Badminton on the TV would not give outsiders a true overview of what really happens outwith the competing bit!!!

I also agree with offering water straight away - although that's the bit you don't often see in the winner's enclosure!!

(yes TD!! Got it and in the middle of replying!!! Just took a break to watch the big race!!!)

 

[kerilli]

i think that they walk them around before they're saddled up, sometimes. i've walked one before a point-to-point and i'm sure it was walked for 1/2 hr, saddled, then walked for about 20 mins in the paddock, pretty good warm-up, with the canter to the start added.
i agree about at the end though, they do this with flat winners too, they seem to stand still blowing and sweating profusely for quite a while, as pics are taken etc etc... seems as if those that don't get placed might get better treatment in the first 10 mins in a way! they never let their backs get cold though, at least.
as you say, they're worth a fortune, these horses, so i'm sure their best interests are kept at heart though...

 

[Enfys]

Having worked backstage with racehorses I can assure you that horses, as said, DO get a warm up (you try leading a fit horse around the pre-parade for 10-20 mins, and then the Parade ring for 20 minutes before a race) The start can be half a mile away too.

After a race, care is as normal, he'll have a drink (probably with something in it for re-hydration) then he'll be washed, checked over and walked at the stables, sometimes I was walking horses for a good half hour or so after a race until they calmed/cooled down enough to go back in their boxes, lads get to be pretty fit

The winner (also random other horses) will also be drug tested, either blood and/or urine so he will go into the Vet box for that.

The noseband will have been undone fast enough as soon as he was on the way back to the stables I daresay.

 

[TableDancer]

Just remembered, as well, aren't I right in thinking Paul Nicholls is married to Bertie Hills' daughter?? If so, I would imagine everything is done right

 

[punk]

Thanks K and Enfys - well, as I said I am obviously a racing numpty, although I am watching it more and more, during the jump season, and while my bad back is still stopping me from riding!! Better get myself off to watch it for real!

However, I do know about walking horses for 20 minutes in hand - have one to walk after injury - am up to 30-40 mins twice a day at the moment!!

 

[Gamebird]

Having horses like that in the sport makes it very easy to watch. I love seeing all the old campaigners come back season after season.

 

[humblepie]

Table Dancer - Philip Hobbs is married to Bertie Hills' daughter I think. Were lucky enough to be at Newbury - awesome wins by Denman and Big Buck's. Most of the horses are walked for ages in the pre-parade ring and there are hosing down facilities in the stabling area.

 

[MillbrookSong]

Hello - as GB said i work in HN racing - before the race we walk them round for 30/45 mins before that race depending on the race course (most are 30) They are walked around in the pre parade ring then saddled and then walked around in the parade ring (this is the bit when there seen on TV) the canter down to the start would be between 1/2 - 1 mile approx. Once there they are shown a fence (in pointing and some races its the 1st fence in the race but most of the time on proper race courses they have a hurdle and a fence in the middle of the track to show the horse.) they are then walked/trotted around until the off.

After the race they are pulled up and like you said canter then trot back to where we pick them up and walk them back to either the winners enclosure or just to un saddle. In the winner enclosure my boss likes them to stand if they will but if not walk them around. about 5 mins after they have finished they will be offerd a drink not many have one - speak to the owners and back to the stables. Once we have them back there we wash them off put the rug back on and walk them around until they have finished blowing/they are dry - this can take anything from 20 mins to an hour depending on fitness and the race. After about an hour after the race they are ready to go home!

Re nose bands we sometimes losen them but like someone said done up looks better in the pics!!

If they have blinkers on they are taken off straight away
Hope thats not too much of an essay!!

 

[humblepie]

Off the thread slightly but re showing the fence - was once doing a "celebrity" show jumpers/jockeys class. Jockey got on my horse and pottered off to do the practice fence.....cue me thinking what is he doing as he walked horse up to the 3' odd upright....then realised he was showing the horse the jump before jumping it! p.s. me not celebrity hasten to add!!

 

[lucindastapleton]

Horses should be allowed to drink freely (within reason)after competing/racing. A great new product designed to encourage horses to drink when they often won't (travelling, competing, stressed, ill etc) is now available in Britain called Horse Quencher, www.horsequencher.co.uk. US eventing silver medallist used it at Beijing last summer. The racecourses should stock it!