well known or not ?

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lisaward

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would you chose a stallion if;

a stallion has a very good competition record but not very well know for his stock or much about him online
this may well due to be lack on advertising on his owners part or competing.
he has only just starting Ai recently

bear in mind the foal will be for sale

or would you go for well known ?????????????
 
Well that is quite an open question. Depends on the quality of the mare in question, the price you are hoping to get for a foal (as in who your target market is) and what you are hoping to achieve with said foal.

For instance, our stallion is a young stallion, relatively unknown, but because of his movement and bloodlines he is turning out to be quite popular with mare owners in the UK. His mare line is proven as is his sires line. He has had a variety of mares, from very well bred ones to some that are not from big known breeding lines. However, the foals that we had graded last year for ourselves and that of our clients were gaining higher marks than ones by some of the bigger known stallions such as Lupicor H, Sir Shutterfly, Heartbreaker, Quite Easy, Solitair, St Moritz and VDL Douglas. Big names may help in pulling in the people to view your foal, but it does not mean they will then buy them.....
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Our stallion has yet to prove himself in competition (hopefully this will be rectified soon!!), but as a breeding stallion nobody can complain about his first foal crop.

Also just because an owner choses not to advertise their stallions does not mean that they are no good, and sometimes if you get to a stallion early in their career before they do "go big" in sport or down the breeding route, then you are sometimes quids in...
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Its a reallly difficult one! This year we took a punt on a Brendons Stud young stallion who we really liked, but knew that he was unknown, but the mare has a very good pedigree, and we hoped that we would be in the vanguard with El Thuder. I do think that if unknown, its important that the stallion comes from a proven line, otherwise you may have more difficulty selling the foal. And we are very chuffed that El Thuder seems to be doing very well already in the gradings, so here's hoping ...

Last year we went for a much better known stallion, Caretino Glory, who had been used on The Tourmaline Rose, and has thrown some very nice foals that we know of locally. Basically, its always a gamble, I guess!
 
The most important part of your post was "bear in mind the foal will be for sale". That puts you in a completely different world.

If that is truly the case, then you are obliged to look at fashion stallions rather than use your mare uterus as a testing ground for unproven stallions. So, you shouldn't be using any stallion outside of the top 100 in the world, on that basis
 
Sadly I agree with Ken. If as a breeder you already have a good reputation then you can take a gamble on a unknown stallion if you think he fits the bill.
If you are breeding a one off foal from your own mare, then it needs to be stallion people know of (for the right reasons) otherwise you are adding difficulties in what is already a hard market in the UK
 
Tricky really, if for sale a marketable pedigree is def a plus but if the stallion isnt well known but the lines behind him are then i think that is ok and see quite often foals advertised on what is behind the sire on the pedigree, as long as the stallion suits your mare, if breeding for yourself the name dosnt matter if the cross works
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Springfall, I would agree with you if you were selling into an educated market, but if you're about selling foals (as we're talking about on this thread) then you must use headline stallions.

We look at all the books, go see all the stallions etc etc when chosing for our mares. There will always be ten or fifeteen that are suitable, but it's the guy who is most going to help sell our foal which gets the go.

Take a look at our first foal this year Jaguar Mail x Corrado x Sacramento Song xx. Who's the daddy? The hotest stallion in event breeding, so will he help sell our foal? Yes. Then we used Diamant de Semilly on the same mare, low and behold Diarado wins the Holsteiner Keuring and everyone wants to look at the foal when it's born. That includes the owners of diamant who have already made a big offer for the foal. We used Dollar du Murier on our Concorde x Ramiro Z mare. The new UK buyer was probably looking at the stallion most when making the decision to buy, the super motherline probably helped as well.

So, really take a look at your stallion long and hard and buy the best you can afford which will suit your mare.
 
I agree, but this....

[ QUOTE ]
So, you shouldn't be using any stallion outside of the top 100 in the world, on that basis

[/ QUOTE ]

... depends on your target market and the mare you are using....
 
Totally agree with SN here no point in paying out mega bucks and using the top 100 stallions if the mare isnt good enough.
You will just end up with an expensive foal you cant sell because it isnt good enough ,take a look at the TB breeding industry to see how this happens all the time.
Sorry Horsenut nothing against your mare but this is a comment in general.
There is always a market for less well bred nice horses so if the mare isnt a mega star i would aim to improve her faults and pedigree and sell to a lesser market with less overheads it doesnt matter if you dont get so much for it.
I think people need to look at there mares honestly and see if they are worth the mega bucks stallions first then decide.
 
thanks i am realistic with my mare and wouldn't expect a badminton foal from her just because i have put a superstar on her,i appreciate that would be false economy.

just an id stallion i quite like is not well advertised ,nor is his stock but he has a good competition record and i wondered if it was worth a punt.
saying that he is the same price as many better pedigree'd stallions.
 
2008 stallions
TIPPY
______
grafenstoltz E700/£500
brief encounter 500+£100 collection and post?

brendon stud
chablis z }
Que Nederland } £400?
El Thuder }
mfs vision £500 that i know of
medoc £500 no collection charges
med night mahout £500+vat(£587) no 1st collection +postage
mj fine art £500+£50 collection
tycoon trakehner £600
Salerno (corland)£600 +vat
 
I couldn't agree more, if you put a donkey to an expensive stallion, you'll end up with an expensive donkey. But the point is that the OP is looking to sell the foal, and I'm assuming that the mare is of good enough quality to use a top stallion. I can only tell of what we do and our experience of selling foals for the maximum price. And...............even when you do use the best stallions, there's no guarantee you'll get the best price, but I wouldn't risk not using them for the same reasons.

The original question was "well known or not?", in this world unless you're a breeder of 20 plus foals a year, you shouldn't make yourself a testing ground for peoples stallions. I'd go well known every time.
 
well she is no a donkey(well at least i don't think ???)
but i wouldn't say she is in your mares league.
i am only hobby breeder that does it for fun and hope to get a small return not make a gold mine.
 
You know, she probably is if you find the right stallions for her.

Can I critique her? Remember, this is to produce a commercialy viable foal, which should be easier to sell. I've also never seen her move or jump.

She's pretty, with good white on her face. She needs some bling on the legs. She's no "donkey". Maybe lacks a bit of neck, but then she's a broodmare and probably not "pessoa'd" everyday. She seems to have plenty of strength. Maybe a little straight in the hind leg in the top photo.

If I were you, I'd be looking at one of the bloodier type of Holsteiner bred stallions. I actually don't think you have spend that much money to get what you want. 1200€ will get you what you want, and there is one top 30 stallion that screams "good match", if you're breeding for jumping.

If you want to add value, make sure the foal gets registered with a value adding Stud Book.

What's her breeding?
 
Well you've chosen the correct breeding (in my opinion), but I'd look at the father (world number 36, in 2007), who interestingly comes from the same motherline (Holsteiner Stamm 318 D, one of the best) as the stallion (world number 30) I was thinking of, who is also mentioned on the same page and is sire of one of Britains top jumpers.
 
He's quite nicely bred, Chellano Z was a superb stallion and many people who have seen his kids agree that they've never seen a crap one. Chellano Z was packed full of genes, with the combination of Contender and the FULL sister of Corrado (Fayence), so it was no wonder he was what he was. Mr Melchior has cloned him btw, should be interesting to see the result. I don't know if he will do it for you in terms of profile (fame). I'd stick to the two big boys mentioned earlier, if you're prepared to spend the money. Pm me your budget and I'll see what there is that's in your range.

You might find a sojourn in Lanaken next month will give you some ideas about what you want to achieve, or St Lo the following weekend. You need to see lots and start to develop your tastes. Corofino and Coriano are both going to be sat St Lo.
 
Mmmm I agree about Chellano Z, I've ridden a couple of exceptional youngsters by him. Will be very interesting to see his clone!!
 
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