Welsh blood lines

S

Sessie

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 May 2009
Messages
134
Visit site
I've heard a few times now that there are certain Welsh lines that should be avoided as are known to be sharp/spooky etc

Just wondered what these are, also which ones are desirable.

Here's my boys breeding, he has Derwen and Madeni lines which are the only recognisable lines i noticed and one Twyford mentioned which i heard can be known to be quite sharp?
confused.gif
(oh and Nebo of course!)
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/havardiad+james+catref+coch+ddu

Just be interesting to know as he can be a bit sharp spooky and wondering if its part down to his breeding or just the way he has been handled??
 
I'd be interested in this too, having just got a cob with mostly Derwen bloodlines. My farrier reckons (& vet agreed) that there are two types of cob - mad, showy ones & sensible ones. I hope I've got the latter, but it's early days! Only had him a couple of weeks. Snorts a lot but no spooking yet! As an aside, I was interested in just how often Nebo Black Magic appears in his pedigree: G Grandfather, G G Granfather, & G G G (or GGGG) about 8 times. Is this normal? Why hasn't he got two heads?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'd be interested in this too, having just got a cob with mostly Derwen bloodlines. My farrier reckons (& vet agreed) that there are two types of cob - mad, showy ones & sensible ones. I hope I've got the latter, but it's early days! Only had him a couple of weeks. Snorts a lot but no spooking yet! As an aside, I was interested in just how often Nebo Black Magic appears in his pedigree: G Grandfather, G G Granfather, & G G G (or GGGG) about 8 times. Is this normal? Why hasn't he got two heads?

[/ QUOTE ]

Derwen Black Magic features 8 times in both my welsh cobs!
 
NBM got around a lot! I've yet to meet a cob without him in their pedigree at least once. My current one has the same grandsire on both sides - no wonder he's a fruit loop! He is not of the showing type, far too fine, but he's def got a screw loose. He's incredibly sharp and spooky, but really talented. He's Sydenham/Llanarth bred. My old one is Llanarth/Maesmynach bred and he's more chunky, although still doesn't have the huge knee action. He's nowhere near as daft although he still has his moments and is most def not an old plod even ages 23.
 
As a breeder of Welsh Cobs I feel I have to add my piece to this thread.

Temperament and character are as much down to upbringing as they are down to bloodlines.

Welsh cobs are intelligent animals and are quick to learn, both good and bad. They can be influenced as foals and this can stay with them as adults.

Its is fairly common to find instances of line breeding within Welsh lines (not a practise I applaud I hasten to add!) with close relatives being bred to each other. This can (and has) produced offspring of questional temperament .

Some lines have a reputation for being sharp but I personally think that "one cap does not fit all"

Sessie - your lad has some very good breeding across the board. Its dangerous to generalise though - we have a son of Derwen Rosinas Last and he is now rising 31 years of age.He's the least spooky individual, and yet has been the most consistent performer on the circuit, in all disciplines, so no slouch.
Likewise I have a daughter of Hendrewen Dawn and she is the most laid back of mares.

We also have a Derwen Stallion (who lived abroad since a foal until returning to this Country at the age of 11). He is a gentle soul and again, not in the least bit spooky.

Flashharry - I have to disagree with your farrier and vets comments - Welsh cobs dont have to be mad to be showy! We have just lost one of our beloved stallions, he was the quiestest, gentlest individual I have ever known yet he was trainable to the highest degree and you could command him to turn on the flair and panache, even with a quiet whisper in the ear

Is it nature or nurture? Well if stallions are kept locked in dark stables and only see the light of day once in a blue moon, you have to ask how this will affect their temperament surely?
 
[ QUOTE ]
'NBM got around a lot! I've yet to meet a cob without him in their pedigree at least once'

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/hillgarth+havana

my girl doesnt

[/ QUOTE ]

i haven't "met" yours though
tongue.gif
We have a yard full of them and they've all got him in there at least once. All my friends ones have as well. That doesn't mean there isn't those out there without him, but he did get around a lot.
 
I have to agree with marchelle but there are lines that are predisposed to a spooky nature if exposed to the environment. One of my fav sayings,

"Genetics loads the gun, environment fires it."
 
[ QUOTE ]


Sessie - your lad has some very good breeding across the board. Its dangerous to generalise though - we have a son of Derwen Rosinas Last and he is now rising 31 years of age.He's the least spooky individual, and yet has been the most consistent performer on the circuit, in all disciplines, so no slouch.
Likewise I have a daughter of Hendrewen Dawn and she is the most laid back of mares.



[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the info there. I guess i should take my boys spooky ways as a product of how he has been handled. It's a shame but i have tried searching for his history but come up against a brick wall. All i know is he was in north hants and ended up at a dealers yard in east sussex, which doesn't spell out good things to me
frown.gif
 
My horse of a lifetime was a pure bred welsh cob , he could turn his hoof to anything , and now as a breeder of quality welsh cobs, yes we do follow bloodlines that have traits we like but its the nature nurture thing isnt it? If a foal or indeed any young horse is correctly handled and brought up properly then you too should have a horse of a lifetime...............
 
I am not a cob breeder, but I do have to agree with those who have played the nature vs nurture card and I feel this is where the British bred horses are being let down. The vast majority of I'll tempered, spooky, bad mannered, so called problem horses are man made, they are not born like that.

I have never met a genuine problem horse who was born that way yet, but I have met far too many problem owners.
 
i have had several pure breds and several part breds, and without a doupt they all have been very intelligent animals that dont suffer fools gladly but are brave & keen to work & not so spooky but full of presence most suited for competition.

some cobs I have met have been line bred and have been sharp natures but then they have also had poor upbringings and I suspect that had as much to do with it as any genetics.
 
One problem is that Welsh Cobs are often "pushed" as being suitable for novice riders.

In terms of management they are hardy and less labour intensive than say a blood horse however they are often far from being suitable for first timers. As newly broken youngsters they can often be laid back and gawky as they go through the growing up stage but often then come into their own once they gain confidence . This initial period is paramount and they must mentally mature and gain the confidence from their handler / rider.
Sometimes (for various reasons) the learning curve goes off kilter with the resulting animal being.... lacking in confidence, defensive and untrusting.This all leans towards a spooky, silly animal but through no real fault of the breed.
We never recommend that novices owners have a Welsh Cob as a first horse.
 
I have a 13 year old section D and a 6 month old section D. The foal is not worried about a thing but he has been fantastically handled by his breeder. My older boy is much more of a worrier but the most kind, well manner and giving horse I have ever met - with wrong handling though I could of seen him being a complete wreck. Each horse has its own personality (just as we humans do) but I believe up bringing plays the greater part. People need to treat horses as indviduals and accept that what works for one won't work for all. Marchells comments sum it up.

And yes quite often the same stallioin appears several times in the pedigree - I'd not like to say if this is a good thing or not as I'm from the isle of wight so probably inbred myself !!!
 
Marchell said:
One problem is that Welsh Cobs are often "pushed" as being suitable for novice riders.

In terms of management they are hardy and less labour intensive than say a blood horse however they are often far from being suitable for first timers. As newly broken youngsters they can often be laid back and gawky as they go through the growing up stage but often then come into their own once they gain confidence . This initial period is paramount and they must mentally mature and gain the confidence from their handler / rider.
Sometimes (for various reasons) the learning curve goes off kilter with the resulting animal being.... lacking in confidence, defensive and untrusting.This all leans towards a spooky, silly animal but through no real fault of the breed.
We never recommend that novices owners have a Welsh Cob as a first horse.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with this. I bought a rising six year old nearly two years ago, and he was an unbelievably spooky, stupid animal. Old owner wouldn't take him back and told us he had been fine with her, but turns out he had just been broken in when she'd bought him a few months before - and he'd been rushed through showjumping, dressage, xc and hunting in less than a year! Anyway, I got in touch with the owner who had him before her, and she told me he was never spooky before! But now, nearly two years and with nothing but hacking and a bit of schooling later, he's soooo much better. He's just a real cheeky boy now :D, like a proper cob should be. Hopefully I can start a bit of showing this year........ if we can get him in a trailer. :L
 
my mare has nebo black magic once on her pedigree as her great great grandsire i believe; and a lot of Derwen on her Dam's side and she can get fizzy but she's the most laid back sod mostly that you could meet and her temperament is to die for! :D
 
In terms of nature vs nurture I have had some experience with some ISH bloodlines and found there was a deffinite predisposition but upbringing decided how it was shown. One stallion's offspring were known to be sharp and evey horse by him we had through the yard was, however one was a delight to handle as long as you were gentle and, though sensitive, very confident. Another who had been less sensitively handled as s youngster was spooky as hell. Similarly 2 by a stallion known to pass on 'boldness', one was brave and honest, the other bolshy. Again different upbringings.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top