Welsh D temperament.

palo1 said:
Just to add - I don't think you will ever find an impartial view on Welshies tbh - people really seem to love them or loathe them with very little middle ground. Sadly I think that because they are cobs, many are mistakenly bought with the view that they will be quiet and steady and whilst some undoubtedly are, that is not generally the case! Indeed, most Welsh enthusiasts and experts would say that a bit of fire is absolutely characteristic of the breed. I have seen and heard of many mishandled/bolshy Welsh cobs - maybe because they are very appealing looking and often not expensive they can end up where there is not enough work for them or enough confidence to install and maintain good manners.
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I feel like it's more helpful to look at them as if they're hairy, feral Iberian types...
 
paddy555 said:
I had a sec d and never ever ever again. Not ever.
Somehow or other the brain had just never been put in. Very sweet horse but not nice to ride, total lack of intelligence. Nervous, anxious, had to live with a companion or he seriously went ape shit. We had real problems when his donkey died. Could and did walk through anything. A closed stable door was no problem, broke the planking vertically from top the bottom. Broke gates. If he wanted to be somewhere he just kept walking.

beautiful looking horse. He had lived on a Welsh mountain for his first year, was bought at a sale by his previous owner and broken professionally by an excellent rider. He had no wish to ever leave his mountain.
Oh and he wanted to be personally introduced to every single sheep he met. As we often meet at least 50 sheep on a daily ride and sometimes more that didn't work too well.
Not too good with cattle. Tried to drive cattle with him, he just stood there, wouldn't or couldn't understand what was required or that he even had to move so one cow just walked straight into him and moved him. Dozy horse didn't realise the roles should have been reversed.
Slow, lazy unless there was a pig within half and mile and then he could certainly move, very fast. :D
Excellent jumping ability. He could jump sideways up a 4 ft bank with ease. Not quite so good when you wanted him to jump forwards over a 2 ft jump.

He was by Nebo Magic.
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Mine likes to stop and chat to sheep. I think every sheep with a black face could potentially be his girlfriend 'Maureen'

Nebo Black Magic seems to be pretty well mentioned on the welsh cob PSSM pages. No way of knowing but I wonder if some of your lads issues could have been linked to PSSM?
 
Known and ridden plenty and many friends have them. I have had a couple of partbreds, current one is Nebo lines
They don’t really float my boat if I’m honest, but my Dad loves them and is always hankering after us getting one.
Most are intelligent and need a job, I’ve seen a few badly behaved ones but to be honest those were handler/owner issues, not the horses fault.
But I do have a friend with a well bred D who is the quietest, dope on a rope type who has taught countless children to ride and given confidence back to those who have lost it. He’s a diamond, but his relaxed attitude is fairly rare in D’s, from my experience.
 
dorsetladette said:
Mine likes to stop and chat to sheep. I think every sheep with a black face could potentially be his girlfriend 'Maureen'

Nebo Black Magic seems to be pretty well mentioned on the welsh cob PSSM pages. No way of knowing but I wonder if some of your lads issues could have been linked to PSSM?
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that is a very interesting comment and I had previously considered it. Mine was born around 1980 and died at 27. If I had him today and knowing what I know now it would be high on my list to try and test.
 
paddy555 said:
that is a very interesting comment and I had previously considered it. Mine was born around 1980 and died at 27. If I had him today and knowing what I know now it would be high on my list to try and test.
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Now my 'odd' welsh D is back in easy reach (loaned as a companion up the road from me) im going to test him. It would answer so many questions. Its really interesting watching the research unfold. I've seen a couple related to him test positive for various strains. I still dont know enough about it but finding it very interesting.
 
I’ve never ridden a sec D but rode a lot of sec A B C until I was about 18/19.
They were fantastic, one was a true plod you could put literally anyone on (Ironically I fell off him the most), my favourites were 2 welsh c a gelding and a mare, both had a little bit of spice but nothing nasty if you got on with them they’d jump the moon for you, they were super fun and would turn their hoof to anything! In the riding school we did show jumping (I’m not the best jumper but jumped both up to 90), gymkhana games, dressage, hacking and one was even schooled western too.

I must have ridden at least 10 and not found one I didn’t like! One little sec A was bolshy with the kids but not with teenagers Or adults.
 
dorsetladette said:
Now my 'odd' welsh D is back in easy reach (loaned as a companion up the road from me) im going to test him. It would answer so many questions. Its really interesting watching the research unfold. I've seen a couple related to him test positive for various strains. I still dont know enough about it but finding it very interesting.
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I would be very interested if you did test and were prepared to post the results.
 
ihatework said:
I’d say they have a tendency towards anxiety and if that isn’t handled the best it displays as bolshy type behaviours.
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This!
I'm not 100% sure if you're who I think you are but if so you may possibly have met my boy - he's Legend, who was at Rockley. He belongs to my sister really, but I've had him for the last 6 years as I keep him with my elderly Arab. He is a bit of a fruit loop to be honest! Once you have caught him, he is a very sweet, very kind chap, and he was always a pretty steady, sensible ride (now retired). But it's catching him that's the problem! He spends a lot of the year pretending he's never seen a human before and looking utterly terrified when you try to catch him. Sometimes he runs away when I try to give him a treat because I breathed the wrong way and he'll sh!t himself and leg it as though I fired a gun at him! Other times he'll deign to take the treat but will stand as far away from me as he possibly can and basically go on tip toes so that he can just about reach the treat I'm holding out! It's actually really annoying, because he's never been mistreated as far as we know and once you've caught him, he isn't remotely nervous of people and is actually a big cuddle bug! But once he's loose in the field it's like this "feral" switch in his brain flicks, and he forgets that he's ever been near a person! He's not always quite so bad - he goes through phases where I can stroke him no problem and he only gets nervous if he sees the head collar, and in the winter he can be good to catch for long stretches. But at the moment I can barely get near him and I have to corral him if I want to catch him for any reason (mostly I just count his legs and leave him to his own devices!).
 
I love my Welsh D. He’s the perfect horse for me - a ball of energy, fun, athletic and tries his heart out. Most importantly for me, he’s safe. He can spook, but in a welsh way - it’s usually a sign that he needs to work harder!
He’s happiest when in consistent work, and when learning things. He loves games when schooling, as it uses his brain. He enjoys working out puzzles. He’s so alert and aware - he’d have been a detective if he was human.
His ground manners are super, he’s the easiest horse on the yard by a long way. Really easy in the herd, loves all other horses.
He was used as a stallion, gelded at 4, and shown. So on paper should have issues. It’s a credit to his previous owners that he’s as great as he is.
He appears very calm and confident, but he does have an underlying anxiety. If you are aware and stay consistent and fair then all is good. He does seem to have an inbuilt sense of fairness, so I can see that things could unravel if someone was harsh or inconsistent with him, or just, in his eyes, unfair.

I have ridden many Welsh D over the years. Before my boy, most were owned by the person who bred them. They had great manners, and excelled with work. None were mad or dangerous. I do remember one who’d been sold as a youngster and came back as he was a difficult horse. Six months of fair and consistent handling and work and he was fine again. Only thing was that you couldn’t ride him with any flapping clothing at all. He never lost his reaction to that.
 
Well obviously the orange one was one of the slightly mad ones so we won't talk about him ?

I did have what was widely assumed to be a Welsh D partbred as a teenager. He was awesome & tricked me into thinking they were all like him although tbf he wasn't without his quirks. He liked going as fast as possible as much of the time as possible, if he spooked at something in one spot he'd spook there for about the next 6 months & he definitely had his feral periods in the field when he wouldn't be caught. Was VERY bold though & a very fun hack & I don't think it ever occurred to him he could buck or rear with a rider on. I suspect you'd have got on well


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Boulty said:
Well obviously the orange one was one of the slightly mad ones so we won't talk about him ?

I did have what was widely assumed to be a Welsh D partbred as a teenager. He was awesome & tricked me into thinking they were all like him although tbf he wasn't without his quirks. He liked going as fast as possible as much of the time as possible, if he spooked at something in one spot he'd spook there for about the next 6 months & he definitely had his feral periods in the field when he wouldn't be caught. Was VERY bold though & a very fun hack & I don't think it ever occurred to him he could buck or rear with a rider on. I suspect you'd have got on well


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Ha ha. I hoped you’d see this thread. The orange one truly was special!
 
dorsetladette said:
I've seen a couple related to him test positive for various strains. I still dont know enough about it but finding it very interesting.
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I don't know if you're aware but there is only one definitive gene test for PSSM and that's for PSSM1. The tests for the other genes have not been peer reviewed, are believed to be for genes that are present in a lot of horses which do not have PSSM, and the recommendation I've seen is that the test is not suitable to be used as a diagnostic tool.
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ycbm said:
I don't know if you're aware but there is only one definitive gene test for PSSM and that's for PSSM1. The tests for the other genes have not been peer reviewed, are believed to be for genes that are present in a lot of horses which do not have PSSM, and the recommendation I've seen is that the test is not suitable to be used as a diagnostic tool.
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No I wasn't aware.

I've only become aware of PSSM as its become a 'thing' within the welsh world. A few studs are championing the testing (usually the ones with negative tested stallions ironically) and some are ignoring the whole thing. As more and more animals are being tested a database seems to be being created.

The most straight forward explanation I've found is on the new forest pony website

https://www.newforestpony.com/breeding/pssm/

Which (after re reading) only mentions the PSSM1 and the way the gene is or isn't carried.

I became interested as some of the behaviour witnessed in some ponies seemed very similar to Bens behaviours.
 
ycbm said:
I don't know if you're aware but there is only one definitive gene test for PSSM and that's for PSSM1. The tests for the other genes have not been peer reviewed, are believed to be for genes that are present in a lot of horses which do not have PSSM, and the recommendation I've seen is that the test is not suitable to be used as a diagnostic tool.
.
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dorsetladette said:
No I wasn't aware.

I've only become aware of PSSM as its become a 'thing' within the welsh world. A few studs are championing the testing (usually the ones with negative tested stallions ironically) and some are ignoring the whole thing. As more and more animals are being tested a database seems to be being created.

The most straight forward explanation I've found is on the new forest pony website

https://www.newforestpony.com/breeding/pssm/

Which (after re reading) only mentions the PSSM1 and the way the gene is or isn't carried.

I became interested as some of the behaviour witnessed in some ponies seemed very similar to Bens behaviours.
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I believe its roughly 25% of horses carry the gene/s for type 2. Its an indication but not a definitive answer. Its also over £200 now.

However there is no doubt that a muscle myopathy or several variations, of some sort is absolutely rife in welsh section D breeding.

Type 1 is a definite answer and is only about £30, but it is less common in Welsh breeds. So it depends which variation you are thinking fits your pony.

This is a good video explaining PSSM Type 1. Theres other videos that explain Type 2 on the same channel

 
I love my Welsh and would never have another breed but you really do have to have a sense of humour when dealing with them. She's awkward to catch in the spring/summer but as long as you take a scoop of feed into the field she's absolutely fine - I often joke that you have to pay the Mad Tax before you can grab her! She's much more intelligent than me and has trained me to do what she wants :P.

dorsetladette said:
No I wasn't aware.

I've only become aware of PSSM as its become a 'thing' within the welsh world. A few studs are championing the testing (usually the ones with negative tested stallions ironically) and some are ignoring the whole thing. As more and more animals are being tested a database seems to be being created.

The most straight forward explanation I've found is on the new forest pony website

https://www.newforestpony.com/breeding/pssm/

Which (after re reading) only mentions the PSSM1 and the way the gene is or isn't carried.

I became interested as some of the behaviour witnessed in some ponies seemed very similar to Bens behaviours.
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This website is collating some of the horses that have been tested and their results - https://welshpssmdata.wixsite.com/my-site/welsh-d
(Disclaimer: it's nothing to do with me and I'm not affiliated with them)

Apparently PSSM1 hasn't yet been identified in D's, which is a surprise in itself, and hopefully we get a more reliable test for the other variants soon.
 
HashRouge said:
This!
I'm not 100% sure if you're who I think you are but if so you may possibly have met my boy - he's Legend, who was at Rockley. He belongs to my sister really, but I've had him for the last 6 years as I keep him with my elderly Arab. He is a bit of a fruit loop to be honest! Once you have caught him, he is a very sweet, very kind chap, and he was always a pretty steady, sensible ride (now retired). But it's catching him that's the problem! He spends a lot of the year pretending he's never seen a human before and looking utterly terrified when you try to catch him. Sometimes he runs away when I try to give him a treat because I breathed the wrong way and he'll sh!t himself and leg it as though I fired a gun at him! Other times he'll deign to take the treat but will stand as far away from me as he possibly can and basically go on tip toes so that he can just about reach the treat I'm holding out! It's actually really annoying, because he's never been mistreated as far as we know and once you've caught him, he isn't remotely nervous of people and is actually a big cuddle bug! But once he's loose in the field it's like this "feral" switch in his brain flicks, and he forgets that he's ever been near a person! He's not always quite so bad - he goes through phases where I can stroke him no problem and he only gets nervous if he sees the head collar, and in the winter he can be good to catch for long stretches. But at the moment I can barely get near him and I have to corral him if I want to catch him for any reason (mostly I just count his legs and leave him to his own devices!).
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I agree with that. My old boy was a total gentleman on the ground 99% of the time.The only time he got a bit bargy was when he was anxious.
 
Rumtytum said:
On the subject of praise ‘my’ Welsh D absolutely adores being told he’s the best in the world. If me and my instructor chorus “Good Boy!” he will actually grunt with pleasure.
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Mine does this!!! She does a little whicker when she's worked hard and I praise her. She knows she's done good. Their entire purpose in life seems to be to please us.
 
Mine isn’t bolshy and she loves people. I have to be really quiet going to the barn area if she is out as if she hears a human she is at the gate banging it to come in or get a treat.
she is anxious with an inner dragon, my farrier always has to introduce himself nicely , not that she has ever been bad, just gives him the side eye.
if she is being a spooky numpty, she is actually better ridden than in hand.just seems to settle better.
for my sins, I have bred a section d x arab , who is now a year old, and hopefully have a section c x arab cooking, so I must love them really ?
 
Well today revealed their level of intelligence, especially of mares! ?
mine are part bred D’s x arab - gelding 75% arab, mare 50/50.
Houdini gelding managed to slip his 15.3 frame through a 3 string leccy fence, escaping their field. Bear in mind, they have all 7 acres open to them, all gates to 4 fields open, wander anywhere, except a few patches beyond the fence. But not good enough, he always wants the ‘forbidden zone grass’!

To get him back into horse area requires him to come all the way up the land to the gate - he decides to just re-enter the field he escaped from to join mare who’s walking away. Trouble is there’s an electric fence between them now as she’s in a different section. I go to them, notice another fence post houdini-abused near the mare. I slip through fence to repair post, reposition in ground. She asks for a bum scratch - but i say no, i’ve got fencing to sort, as i spotted another fence post awry further along. Houdini has been having fun!

Because i said no to scratching her, she then stomps away in a mood away from all of us, to go into the furthest field out of eye-shot of gelding for a gallop. (She never goes away when he’s escaped , she always for years comes to me and with me wherever i ask!) She didnt look back as she strutted off defiantly, and im calling her over and over, which she normally responds to. She knew this would wind-up the gelding as he loves running with her in those bottom fields, and he’s trapped himself in another field! She knew i’d get stressed as the gelding couldnt directly get to that field without going 100m in the opposite direction of her gallop field to the gate, which leads him to a long gallop to the bottom field.

Cue gelding galloping like mad around the field at the bottom to see her galloping further down! His little brain was all wiggly as he wouldnt houdini the fence. At one point i thought he’d storm it he was so excited to just gallop with her, but he shelved that idea, for which im forever thankful!
I’m calling him up to the gate walking up there….he’s charging like crazy in circles down the bottom then tightens that muzzle in full concentration for a full flat-out sprint finally towards me, ohhhh at last, he gets the idea!
The cat is rolling on the path near the gate lazing and quickly scarpers when the thudding of hooves threatens his existence!

Gelding skids through gate and does a barrel-racing turn onto the main gallop down to the bottom fields - he’s on the right path and knows it, so joyfully has settled to a fast bouncy canter, neck giraffe-high to try to glimpse the mare. I shuffle down with far less grace, following him, intending to just shut them down there in the bottom field and be done with it.
The dog canters behind me and trips in a deep hoof divot sliding cartoon-style forward onto her face, so now im running sideways checking on her as i go, making sure she has recovered and hasn’t come-up lame. She’s fine…phew…we’re still all good, all alive, all excited….except the cat, following with his male strut some way back. Nothing gets him excited unless it’s potential prey. As im looking back checking on the other furries while running my body forward, I spot OH on the hill at the gate in the forbidden zone observing everything going down - he looked relaxed, one hand on hip….good for him! ?

Get to bottom field and shut the gate. Hooves thundering in the field over, ahhhh good they’ve got their fun…”glad I could be of assistance ya fluffy sheisters!“
Suddenly everything is quiet. I investigate to find them both chilling under trees, nibbling on tree leaves, as if butter wouldnt melt. They look at me as if nothing had happened, with a “what are you doing here?” look.

All because i wouldn’t scratch that butt. She knew exactly how to get me back for ignoring her request! I never knew she had it in her tbh! Vengeful yet very clever mare!
 
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