Welsh pony and cob names - pronounciation and meaning help

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

Inspired by a recent thread, I was wondering what the interest would be in help with pronouncing Welsh pony and Cob names..??
Their naming traditions are part of an ancient heritage and often have beautiful and interesting meanings but it can be difficult to know where to start if you have no exposure to Welsh.
Please, any Welsh speakers feel free to help out and forgive any errors, I am by no means any kind of expert, nor is my Welsh very correct or extensive! I just love the language and its traditions, particularly when it comes to horses.
There is of course, plenty of regional variation to be considered too, but once you have the basics of the phonetics, its fairly consistent.
A simple rule of thumb - emphasis is given to the last-but-one syllable of the word, which is shown below in bold italics.

So for example,my Sec D boys are:
Myrddin Wyllt (Muthin' W[I]itht[/I] - hard 'TH' sound.. it means Wild Merlin, the Merlin of King Arthur, who was lost in the forest.
and:
Ysbryd ap Dafydd (Ussbrid ap Davith - hard TH) meaning Spirit, son of Dafydd
and Sec A is
'Bryntwrog Butch' (Brinturrog Butch) - The prefix means the hill of Twrog and I presume the Butch is as in the English word for manly, which he is, despite his small stature!

So, anyone else want to play?

 

[navaho]

Good idea, i hate hearing some of the Welsh names mangled by some people, though do bear in mind that people from certain areas of Wales still dont pronounce the Welsh names correctly, South Wales / the Valleys imparticular, drives me mad when i visit my sister in Caerphilly & nothing is said how it should be.

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

Good idea, i hate hearing some of the Welsh names mangled by some people, though do bear in mind that people from certain areas of Wales still dont pronounce the Welsh names correctly, South Wales / the Valleys imparticular, drives me mad when i visit my sister in Caerphilly & nothing is said how it should be.

I would call that regional variation myself...many people I know in the Valleys (OH included) are really speaking Welsh using English words! And there are often genuine originally dialectical differences in pronounciation that give rise to variants...

So, over on the 'Show me your Sec D' thread, where this started, in answer to LittleWildOne, I would say 'Nant Eglwys' as:


Nant - straightforwad enough, short vowel sound and Eggloyss emphasis on 'Egg'

And as you probably know, Nant is brook or ravine and Eglwys is church. So, the ravine of the church.

Any more for anymore?

 

[Mare Stare]

I would call that regional variation myself...many people I know in the Valleys (OH included) are really speaking Welsh using English words! And there are often genuine originally dialectical differences in pronounciation that give rise to variants...

So, over on the 'Show me your Sec D' thread, where this started, in answer to LittleWildOne, I would say 'Eglwys' as:

Eggloyss emphasis on 'Egg'

And as you probably know, it means church.

Any more for anymore?

Us in the North would pronounce Eglwys as Egg-Lewis.

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

Us in the North would pronounce Eglwys as Egg-Lewis.

I'm in the North too! So already we're seeing a lot of variation eh?

 

[Mare Stare]

I'm in the North too! So already we're seeing a lot of variation eh?

Oh yeah! I didn't see that! lol!

Whereabouts are you? We're near the border. Also, hubby speaks Welsh fluently but as a 2nd language so that may make a difference. (I'm English so I just pronounce things as I am told to pronounce them)

Welsh is a very funny language.

 

[navaho]

I would call that regional variation myself...many people I know in the Valleys (OH included) are really speaking Welsh using English words! And there are often genuine originally dialectical differences in pronounciation that give rise to variants...

So, over on the 'Show me your Sec D' thread, where this started, in answer to LittleWildOne, I would say 'Nant Eglwys' as:


Nant - straightforwad enough, short vowel sound and Eggloyss emphasis on 'Egg'

And as you probably know, Nant is brook or ravine and Eglwys is church. So, the ravine of the church.

Any more for anymore?

Im actually refering to people who dont make any attempt to try & pronounce welsh words, its very common place in South Wales (i suspect to the infulx of English has alot to do with it), for example no effort to pronounce the LL in anything..anywhere that starts with Ll is just said an an L.
There is a little village called Rhydyrfelin down there, they say "r-hid-fell-in" to me its should be said "reed-err-vel-in"...if that makes sense? Another one is Penyrheol...they say "pen-r-ow-l" to me its "pen-err-hay-ol".

 

[navaho]

Oh yeah! I didn't see that! lol!

Whereabouts are you? We're near the border. Also, hubby speaks Welsh fluently but as a 2nd language so that may make a difference. (I'm English so I just pronounce things as I am told to pronounce them)

Welsh is a very funny language.

Actually its not, if you think about it English is far more complex than Welsh. Welsh is basically say it as you see it, all you need to do it learn the Welsh alphabet & your pretty much away.

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

Oh yeah! I didn't see that! lol!

Whereabouts are you? We're near the border. Also, hubby speaks Welsh fluently but as a 2nd language so that may make a difference. (I'm English so I just pronounce things as I am told to pronounce them)

Welsh is a very funny language.

Denbighshire...it is great fun eh?

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

Im actually refering to people who dont make any attempt to try & pronounce welsh words, its very common place in South Wales (i suspect to the infulx of English has alot to do with it), for example no effort to pronounce the LL in anything..anywhere that starts with Ll is just said an an L.
There is a little village called Rhydyrfelin down there, they say "r-hid-fell-in" to me its should be said "reed-err-vel-in"...if that makes sense? Another one is Penyrheol...they say "pen-r-ow-l" to me its "pen-err-hay-ol".

Ah, that's interesting...there is some evidence to suggest that up to the sixteenth century 'Penyrheol' was originally called Penrhewl...so I guess that's a leftover from when the language was mainly oral rather than written and so its kind of a local dialectic thing..and with Rhydyrfelin, , apparently, originally it was more than one mill there, so rather than Rhyd Yr Felin (the ford of the Mill) it would have been Rhyd Felin, as in 'Mill Ford'
I think the influx of English has had an obvious and huge influence, both North and South as has the writing down and formalising of what was originally an oral language with a lot of variation..interesting tho eh??
The double LL one I'm not sure about, but you're right, that's very common.

 

[navaho]

hmmm that is quite interesting, where do you find all this info
But Ll is the one that really drives me nuts lol!

 

[FfionWinnie]

Yes please, mine is Dyffryntanat.

 

[LittleWildOne]

I would call that regional variation myself...many people I know in the Valleys (OH included) are really speaking Welsh using English words! And there are often genuine originally dialectical differences in pronounciation that give rise to variants...

So, over on the 'Show me your Sec D' thread, where this started, in answer to LittleWildOne, I would say 'Nant Eglwys' as:


Nant - straightforwad enough, short vowel sound and Eggloyss emphasis on 'Egg'

And as you probably know, Nant is brook or ravine and Eglwys is church. So, the ravine of the church.

Any more for anymore?

Thank you
Does it make any difference that my friend's Cob's prefix is all one word, Nanteglwys rather than Nant Eglwys ? (His full name is Nanteglwys Rhodri).

How about the meaning then for my Cob mare that I've just sold ? Her name is Malog Telynores Menna. Again, I will pass this on to her new owner.
Oh, and is Menna's name pronounced as it looks ? Thanks.

 

[DuckToller]

I had a little welsh section a with the delightful name Nergar Baledwr. Baledwr is folk singer or ballad singer.

I tried to research the prefix, wondering if it held some interesting or amazing meaning. None of my welsh relatives had heard of the word, and in the end we tracked down the breeder.

He had put together the first syllables of his children's names - Nerys and Gareth. Not quite the romantic spirit of the valley type meaning I was hoping for, but interesting none the less!

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

hmmm that is quite interesting, where do you find all this info
But Ll is the one that really drives me nuts lol!

OH has been digging about into old books, talking to old people and generally living in the ancient Welsh past for most of his 50+ years! And its inevitably rubbed off on me, so we are now a pair of eytomology geeks (but he knows loads more than me)
Yes, perhaps we should set up a 'LL' awareness club!

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

Yes please, mine is Dyffryntanat.

Well I would say....

Duffrintanat

Vale of the river Tanat

 

[Django Pony]

I don't know if it's Welsh or Irish, but does anyone know how to pronounce "Anablaha"? My best guess is "Anna-blah-har" is that right?

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

I had a little welsh section a with the delightful name Nergar Baledwr. Baledwr is folk singer or ballad singer.

I tried to research the prefix, wondering if it held some interesting or amazing meaning. None of my welsh relatives had heard of the word, and in the end we tracked down the breeder.

He had put together the first syllables of his children's names - Nerys and Gareth. Not quite the romantic spirit of the valley type meaning I was hoping for, but interesting none the less!

That's great!!!! Love that!

 

[FfionWinnie]

Well I would say....

Duffrintanat

Vale of the river Tanat

Thanks. I wasn't too far off then

 

[skint1]

I love the Welsh language, well I love hearing people speak it, and the accent, and the words but I try not to speak/butcher it myself. Great thread!

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

Thank you
Does it make any difference that my friend's Cob's prefix is all one word, Nanteglwys rather than Nant Eglwys ? (His full name is Nanteglwys Rhodri).

How about the meaning then for my Cob mare that I've just sold ? Her name is Malog Telynores Menna. Again, I will pass this on to her new owner.
Oh, and is Menna's name pronounced as it looks ? Thanks.

No difference if they're run together, its still the last but one syllable....

Menna, yes pronounced as it looks

Malog Telynores Menna....
Telynores is female harp player..
Menna is a female first-name originally deriving from the meaning of 'stone'....
Malog....hmmm, could be a few things going on there...could be a corruption of 'Maelog' which is princely...or 'Malog' a saint's name...or, bizarrely could be 'place of badness', which is odd but not uncommon...
so Menna harpist of Malog would be my best guess!

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

I don't know if it's Welsh or Irish, but does anyone know how to pronounce "Anablaha"? My best guess is "Anna-blah-har" is that right?

Not sure about that, don't think it's Welsh....so possibly Irish??

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

I love the Welsh language, well I love hearing people speak it, and the accent, and the words but I try not to speak/butcher it myself. Great thread!

Da iawn! (great) but have a go, you might be pleasantly surprised! You're right, it is a beautiful language, and the range of Welsh accents is lovely.

 

[Shanny_mare]

My daughter's Section D cross is from Anglesey - Myfyrian Taran. Any chance of a translation please? I think taran means thunder but I'd be interested in the translation of myfyrian, especially as myfyr also appears in the name of the village where we live. I think I've got an idea but would love confirmation or otherwise

The one thing I wish i could do is learn Welsh!

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

My daughter's Section D cross is from Anglesey - Myfyrian Taran. Any chance of a translation please? I think taran means thunder but I'd be interested in the translation of myfyrian, especially as myfyr also appears in the name of the village where we live. I think I've got an idea but would love confirmation or otherwise

The one thing I wish i could do is learn Welsh!

'Myfyr' is an old Saint's name (as in Llanfihangel Glyn Myfyr) the suffix 'ian' is territorial, as in 'land belonging to'
Taran, yes, its the name of the Thunder god Taranis but apparently can also mean a rockface...
so quite likely could be the rockface of the land of Myfyr...being that it is describing the land area or possibly thunder of the land of Myfyr.....

 

[LittleWildOne]

No difference if they're run together, its still the last but one syllable....

Menna, yes pronounced as it looks

Malog Telynores Menna....
Telynores is female harp player..
Menna is a female first-name originally deriving from the meaning of 'stone'....
Malog....hmmm, could be a few things going on there...could be a corruption of 'Maelog' which is princely...or 'Malog' a saint's name...or, bizarrely could be 'place of badness', which is odd but not uncommon...
so Menna harpist of Malog would be my best guess!

Thank you
Malog was the name of the stud where she was bred, near Lampeter.

 

[Shanny_mare]

Thank you

 

[amandal]

Hi can anyone help with my mares name? Ysbrydymynydd Paris?? How do you pronounce it and what does it mean?? Thanks

 

[DuckToller]

Yes - simple. Paris - capital of France.

No idea about the rest - hope that helps

 

[Mare Stare]

Hi can anyone help with my mares name? Ysbrydymynydd Paris?? How do you pronounce it and what does it mean?? Thanks

Y is usually pronounced 'uh' like the u in umbrella.

So uss-brud-uh-mun-uth Paris . I think!