Welsh section B placed on Rare Breeds survival list

[southerncomfort]

Sad to read that the welsh B seems to have fallen out of favour.

My children's first pony was a cracking little B mare. Not exactly the quintessential first pony, being a bit forward, but safe and my goodness did she teach them to ride.

She was very pretty and great fun for them.

I wonder why they aren't being bred so much any more.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I used to ride loads of them years ago all show ponies some were sharp and I think of all the Welsh they can be the sharpest so perhaps that's why.

They were always popular in the show ring though.

 

[Patterdale]

I was so surprised to read it today. Section Bs are the most wonderful ponies, beautiful and kind and just right for children, with relatively few health issues.
We have a fantastic one, and I’d love to find another. Hopefully this news will be a bit of a wake up call - I certainly wasn’t aware, I thought there were millions of them!

 

[IrishMilo]

Crikey, that's sad. My first two ponies were Sec Bs and I've always said they're the only sane lot of the Welshes! Suspect Connies have bullied them out.

 

[meleeka]

That’s a surprise. I have a Welsh B chestnut mare. I can see why some don’t make excellent child’s ponies, which is why Welsh X seems to be more common. Mine isn’t everyone’s cup of tea (OH says she’s the equine version of me ), but she’s an incredible character. If I ever get going with driving, I’d like another B. Currently one is old now, but she’d do anything for me if I asked her

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I used to work for a lady that bred Welsh B's. She retired many years ago but had quite a few knocking around!

 

[sbloom]

It looked to me like they have been breeding the lighter and flashier over the years which may not have helped. 1983 I rode a wonderful Bracon stud pony that would look out of place now.

 

[cauda equina]

We had a Downland pony, he was pretty Welsh but the best hack ever

 

[ester]

It looked to me like they have been breeding the lighter and flashier over the years which may not have helped. 1983 I rode a wonderful Bracon stud pony that would look out of place now.

That was my thinking, that and a lot of part breds.
I’m impressed re the breeders comments on the wpcs page re. this doesn’t mean breeding for breedings sake, there still needs to be a market.
I’m on tenterhooks to see how they might manage the inbreeding issue

 

[Marigold4]

I bought a Welsh B last year as a companion to my own foal. She wasn't handled as a foal so was quite a challenge at the start. She is the most endearing little thing with long eyelashes and a velvety nose. The plan is to sell her in 18 months time but she keeps telling me she is so glad she had found her forever home.

 

[gallopingby]

Sadly if there’s not more support for breeders of our native breeds they will ALL be on the rare breeds list before too long. We no longer have people prepared to spend time and money or with the ability to work out which are good bloodlines in the majority of the M&M breeds. People want a ready made pony and many aren’t prepared to wait or pay the price of a well reared and educated 3 or 4 year old. It simply isn’t worth running any ponies on these days after you have foaled them unless you’ve a source of free / cheap labour and sufficient suitable ground. For too long M&M ponies were considered cheap and plentiful, and it wasn’t worth breeding. Now there are producers out to try and make money from them but the majority know little about the breed lines, they want a pony that will win big pretty ribbons and they can sell on for upwards of 10k. No wonder people have stopped breeding when there are so many problems selling and the market for two and three year olds is so slow. Time for people to wake up before it’s too late, support the breed societies and become aware of the potential of all our native breeds.

 

[Belmont]

I was surprised to see New forests on there too.

 

[dorsetladette]

Warmwell has recently started up her B breeding again I believe. They moved away from the welshies to race but now have grand kids who need riding ponies so the B's are coming back to the yard. won't make a difference on their own but it's a start.

I think they went out of fashion due to there being two very different 'types' - the old fashioned chunky stamp that would hunt across any terrain and the pretty show pony types. My parents had one of each type at stud in the 90's they both did well under the right judges in the show ring.

 

[ester]

I’ve been interested to see people saying they’re sharper than As, my experience tends to be the opposite

 

[dorsetladette]

I’ve been interested to see people saying they’re sharper than As, my experience tends to be the opposite

Again I think that does depend on the pony. as a kid I had a mare that I could barely get out of walk and one that would probably have made a better games pony than show pony. Both were B's - blood lines make a difference too.

 

[tda]

My neighbour breeds sec.b ponies, he has at least 10 foals a year so he's doing his bit, but I know quite a few of them (colts) are sold for little money at the Welsh sales

 

[mcgreggor]

My first pony was a sec B and he was cracking, I rode him until I was 16 before moving up a height! I don't think I could have gotten away with that nowadays with them seemingly being bred so much finer for the showing- it's a shame as it's putting them out of everyday jobs. Why would you choose a children's pony that they will grow out of in a couple of seasons and that an adult couldn't hop on and exercise, when there are plenty other small breed natives that will be suitable.

 

[SEL]

Mine too. I was regularly getting decked by As as a kid but have much fonder memories of the larger varieties - both B & C

I’ve been interested to see people saying they’re sharper than As, my experience tends to be the opposite

 

[COldNag]

Gosh, we have had 3, all cracking ponies.
They taught my kids a huge amount.

 

[maya2008]

My childhood experiences put me off (nutty in the extreme!) and for my kids now, there seems no difference in the girth size of a stocky A at 12hh and a 13.2hh B! My son has just gone from 12hh to a 13.3hh Welsh D x. We looked at Bs but they don’t take up the leg enough.

 

[Cragrat]

Sadly if there’s not more support for breeders of our native breeds they will ALL be on the rare breeds list before too long. We no longer have people prepared to spend time and money or with the ability to work out which are good bloodlines in the majority of the M&M breeds. People want a ready made pony and many aren’t prepared to wait or pay the price of a well reared and educated 3 or 4 year old. It simply isn’t worth running any ponies on these days after you have foaled them unless you’ve a source of free / cheap labour and sufficient suitable ground. For too long M&M ponies were considered cheap and plentiful, and it wasn’t worth breeding. Now there are producers out to try and make money from them but the majority know little about the breed lines, they want a pony that will win big pretty ribbons and they can sell on for upwards of 10k. No wonder people have stopped breeding when there are so many problems selling and the market for two and three year olds is so slow. Time for people to wake up before it’s too late, support the breed societies and become aware of the potential of all our native breeds.

Totally agree.

 

[maya2008]

Sadly if there’s not more support for breeders of our native breeds they will ALL be on the rare breeds list before too long. We no longer have people prepared to spend time and money or with the ability to work out which are good bloodlines in the majority of the M&M breeds. People want a ready made pony and many aren’t prepared to wait or pay the price of a well reared and educated 3 or 4 year old. It simply isn’t worth running any ponies on these days after you have foaled them unless you’ve a source of free / cheap labour and sufficient suitable ground. For too long M&M ponies were considered cheap and plentiful, and it wasn’t worth breeding. Now there are producers out to try and make money from them but the majority know little about the breed lines, they want a pony that will win big pretty ribbons and they can sell on for upwards of 10k. No wonder people have stopped breeding when there are so many problems selling and the market for two and three year olds is so slow. Time for people to wake up before it’s too late, support the breed societies and become aware of the potential of all our native breeds.

Why would anyone put time and effort into breeding, when the price people will pay for youngstock is less than it costs to get them on the ground? It doesn’t make economic sense. When this is raised on the forum, everyone jumps in with comments to the effect that it doesn’t matter how much it costs to breed the foal/breed and raise to whatever age it is sold at, because if it isn’t worth that amount to the buyer, they shouldn’t have to pay. But then no one will breed, because they can’t even break even. Economics don’t change when it’s a horse - if the business cannot make money, it will go bust, and that product will no longer be produced!

- You can’t complain about quality of youngstock, if you’re not willing to pay enough that it is worth someone putting time and effort into bloodlines and conformation etc.
- You can’t complain about a breed becoming endangered if you won’t even pay at three years old what it costs to get a foal on the ground, let alone at weaning.
- You can’t complain about all the badly trained horses and ponies out there, if no one is willing to pay the price of professional backing and training, so amateurs buy and have a go themselves, then pass the problems on.

Economics. The buyers in the horse world seem to fail to understand that the laws of economics apply to horses. It’s like they think magical pixies wave their wands and produce horses magically at no cost to anyone else - and then complain when the results of their attitudes are unpleasant for them.

 

[malwhit]

I was surprised to see New forests on there too.

Are the ponies living in the New Forest included? I thought they had quite a few foals each year.

 

[throwaway2022]

I have two for my daughter and I, absolutely cracking ponies and so versatile. Such a shame. I must admit, I did struggle to find the quality I was after, there’s a fair amount of poor stock being bred from the little I saw. Awful photo but the only one with them both on it. Big up the B’s

 

[BBP]

How very sad. My section B was a fantastic pony. She was a great old fashioned stamp. Born and raised out on the Welsh hills based on what we could trace. Then a career as a very good show pony before family sold her when her elderly owner went into care and she found herself sliding down into bin end markets, at one point being kept in a tiny paddock next to a cemetery where she was skin and bone and was kept alive by the kindness of a little girl and her dad who brought her water and hay when they could. They said one day she vanished from the paddock never to be seen again until they saw a ‘tracing horses’ as we put in Your Horse magazine and recognised her instantly and gave us a call. She eventually ended up being sold to the riding school I attended. They were told she was 8 but turned out she was in her 20s with broken knees and blind in one eye after a kick to the head. She bucked all the riding school kids off except me so when the school decided she had to be sold, I begged my parents to buy her but she failed the vet spectacularly. She was sent to market and only the meat man was bidding so my parents offered just above meat money for her. She was my first pony (followed up by BBP who is 1/4 section B), old, broken and very much loved.

She lived to be about 39 and up until her early 30s was still in work hacking. She learned half pass at 29.

She must have been about 31 in this photo.

 

[Marigold4]

How very sad. My section B was a fantastic pony. She was a great old fashioned stamp. Born and raised out on the Welsh hills based on what we could trace. Then a career as a very good show pony before family sold her when her elderly owner went into care and she found herself sliding down into bin end markets, at one point being kept in a tiny paddock next to a cemetery where she was skin and bone and was kept alive by the kindness of a little girl and her dad who brought her water and hay when they could. They said one day she vanished from the paddock never to be seen again until they saw a ‘tracing horses’ as we put in Your Horse magazine and recognised her instantly and gave us a call. She eventually ended up being sold to the riding school I attended. They were told she was 8 but turned out she was in her 20s with broken knees and blind in one eye after a kick to the head. She bucked all the riding school kids off except me so when the school decided she had to be sold, I begged my parents to buy her but she failed the vet spectacularly. She was sent to market and only the meat man was bidding so my parents offered just above meat money for her. She was my first pony (followed up by BBP who is 1/4 section B), old, broken and very much loved.

She lived to be about 39 and up until her early 30s was still in work hacking. She learned half pass at 29.

She must have been about 31 in this photo.View attachment 137806

She is really beautiful!

 

[gallopingby]

Are the ponies living in the New Forest included? I thought they had quite a few foals each year.

Yes. The number of stallions permitted to run on the forest is controlled these days. There has been a huge reduction in numbers being bred and they are monitored.

 

[coblets]

The Cleveland Bay is also a growing concern according to the press release. "Stable but very low numbers give this breed an ‘Effective Population Size’ (which is a measure of genetic diversity within the breed, not a population total) of below 50."

 

[coblets]

• South of England’s ponies (New Forest, Exmoor and Dartmoor) – the New Forest pony is performing very well numerically and if current trends continue the breed could move out of the rare categories in the coming years. The Dartmoor pony (At Risk category) has recorded stable numbers and the Exmoor pony (Priority category) has seen a welcome improvement with the number of dams increased by 28% in 2023.

 

[meleeka]

Yes. The number of stallions permitted to run on the forest is controlled these days. There has been a huge reduction in numbers being bred and they are monitored.

Consequently the quality of those being bred has improved hugely. I think they’ve done a fantastic job of preserving the breed and in particular the forest run stock.