Video Welshie kicking at stomach when schooling

R

RHGR

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 August 2018
Messages
75
Visit site
Okay so my Weshie has been in work since April. We've had no issues, got a saddle fitted at the start of May and have been having a great time. We mostly hack at the moment to build muscle as we've got lots of great hacking around, but we do school once or twice a week. Up until last week he hasn't been a problem at all! But in the last couple weeks he's been funny in the school. Starts okay but when asked to speed up he's not happy. Started just when being asked to canter last week, I originally thought saddle as he's slimmed down a little so got in touch with saddle fitter and he suggested trying a pad with front shims. Have done this, and he's continued to be happy hacking (walk trot and canter) for the last few days. Tried in the school today and now he is reacting in trot too. Decided to try get a video (I ride alone) and then could see that he's kicking up at his stomach, mostly with the right hind. We got a couple circles each way in trot before he reacted, but once he started he wouldn't stop. Hopped off and took saddle off to try bareback, and the same thing. He was happy walk trot and canter on the lunge yesterday morning in the same school. I'm not entirely sure but I'm thinking ulcers or hindgut issues? Anyone experienced this or have any ideas to try? He's already booked in to see the best Physio of all time for an MOT on the 22nd of July (booked before issues arose). Hopefully she'll be able to pinpoint or rule out some issues.
I am attempting to attach a video but it's not working 🤦
 
I'd suspect ulcers looking at that. Not dissimilar to how my, also Welshie, mare reacted when she had ulcers last year. She didn't kick out, but she wouldn't/couldn't go forward in trot, so we ended up with a sort of bunny hop behind. It was only after xraying hocks/back, doing MRIs on suspensories which were all clear, that we scoped her for ulcers. I wish we had done it first!

ETA your physio should not be diagnosing issues. That is for a vet.
 
IrishMilo said:
Have you checked his sheath for maggots?
Click to expand...
I would have thought he would do it at times other than just ridden in the school if it was something like that. Had vet out for his teeth last Monday and he was sedated so had a good feeling up there to check/wash off a couple gunky bits I'd noticed the week before but no maggots or anything worrying :(
 
Last edited:
nikicb said:
I'd suspect ulcers looking at that. Not dissimilar to how my, also Welshie, mare reacted when she had ulcers last year. She didn't kick out, but she wouldn't/couldn't go forward in trot, so we ended up with a sort of bunny hop behind. It was only after xraying hocks/back, doing MRIs on suspensories which were all clear, that we scoped her for ulcers. I wish we had done it first!

ETA your physio should not be diagnosing issues. That is for a vet.
Click to expand...
Thank you for sharing your experience, that's very helpful! I've had a mare before that had ulcers, sadly hers were incurable after 3 years of trying (other issues couldn't be solved that caused ongoing pain so she was PTS). She was a lot more explosive though, this guy is too sweet to be as dramatic as her I think!

Re physio, I'm very aware she can't diagnose and she never would/I would never ask her to, she works very closely with local vets working on rehab for injuries etc and would send me straight to vet if she found anything concerning and wouldn't continue. It's more of a 'she can pinpoint tight muscles/sore bits that may explain the reaction and suggest areas to start investigating with vet'. I booked her in a couple weeks ago as I wanted her expert eye cast over him and to give me exercises etc to help suppleness since he's a typical solid, anxious welshie 🤣 He's sound and happy in every other aspect of work, just ridden in the school that he's displaying odd behaviour, and as this is my first year with him and he's only been in work a couple months I really don't know what his pain/boredom/stubborn behaviours are. Previous owners don't either, he's never been in consistent work and was only backed start of 2024, we are starting from the beginning with very little history to help 🙈
 
She's not being bitten is she? Clutching at straws as I'm having trouble with clegs when riding.
 
Mine was showing similar behaviour and has pyloric ulcers. He was also unusually aggressive with my other horses. I had mine looked over by a physio before seeing the vet as there was a more than 2 week wait to see a senior vet and it can be difficult for the vet to know where to start with behavioural issues. The physio found no problem with mine but the ulcers were clear on the scope.
 
There’s a lot of things it could be. I agree it could be ulcer/stomach related but I wouldn’t rule out hind limb lameness issues (hocks etc) too. My boy was diagnosed with hock arthritis as a 13 year old and he used to buck on a circle, mostly in canter not in trot though as he found it hard to work with his hocks underneath him.) It could be a combination of things as quite often ulcers can be secondary to another issue. Time for a Vet work up I think!
 
Gloi said:
She's not being bitten is she? Clutching at straws as I'm having trouble with clegs when riding.
Click to expand...
I wish it was something that simple! No flies about today, or the last day we were in the school. Had my first hack with terrible flies this week though, cut it short after I'd killed over 20 clegs that landed on me/his shoulders. Hadn't seen any at all this year before that!! Found out he's the type that likes to try jigjog away from flies!
 
Will also add this is only over two schooling sessions, just over a week apart. He's hacked 4 times between (including trot and canter) and lunged once (w,t,c) and has had no issues any other time. The video I managed to attach is the extent of my 'riding through it' at this point. He did it going into Canterbury last time, and I just stopped and did a few walk circles before finishing. He did it once today, I hopped off and set up camera, got that one video, then got off (literally where the vid stops), got back on bareback for half a circle trot to see if he still did it, which he did, then took him in. I haven't tried to 'ride him through it' as he's an anxious type and didn't want to undo the work I've done to get him trusting me. I've not been riding him like this repeatedly.
 
spotty_pony2 said:
There’s a lot of things it could be. I agree it could be ulcer/stomach related but I wouldn’t rule out hind limb lameness issues (hocks etc) too. My boy was diagnosed with hock arthritis as a 13 year old and he used to buck on a circle, mostly in canter not in trot though as he found it hard to work with his hocks underneath him.) It could be a combination of things as quite often ulcers can be secondary to another issue. Time for a Vet work up I think!
Click to expand...
Thank you! Had a welshie on loan years ago that could never get left canter. When she eventually did one day (riding instructor got me to ride her into the fence and then turn her at the last second ato pick it up) the next day she was lame in the right hind. Turned out she had hock arthritis! Again only 13yrs old. Had hoped I played it safe buying a 12yr old this time that had only started ridden work a year previously but I suppose you can never rule out a genetic predisposition!
 
Could he just hate being ridden in the school. If he’s fine out a hack and fine being lunged could it be he’s just not liking being in the school?

By all means get your vet involved but to me it just seems a bit odd that he’s only doing it in the school
 
Could he just hate being ridden in the school. If he’s fine out a hack and fine being lunged could it be he’s just not liking being in the school?

By all means get your vet involved but to me it just seems a bit odd that he’s only doing it in the school
 
RHGR said:
Thank you! Had a welshie on loan years ago that could never get left canter. When she eventually did one day (riding instructor got me to ride her into the fence and then turn her at the last second ato pick it up) the next day she was lame in the right hind. Turned out she had hock arthritis! Again only 13yrs old. Had hoped I played it safe buying a 12yr old this time that had only started ridden work a year previously but I suppose you can never rule out a genetic predisposition!
Click to expand...

it’s not necessarily the end of his ridden career if it is arthritis. My boy is now 26 and still in light work - we hunted until he was 19 and he’s had a very active life still with very careful management.
 
nikicb said:
ETA your physio should not be diagnosing issues. That is for a vet.
Click to expand...

A physio will assess the horse's movement and detect issues which will then require referral to a vet for a diagnosis.

It's important that the vet is notified before the physio has seen the horse in case there are underlying conditions that would aggravate the horses condition if the physio was to treat the horse, conditions such as i.e infection, wounds, neuro conditions, cushings, colic.

Physios and vets work together, my friend who is a vet physio spends loads of her time between treating her clients, on the phone discussing her cases with the horses own vet. Sometimes they will meet to assess the horse together to share their findings and contribute to the overall treatment plan.
 
Roasted Chestnuts said:
Could he just hate being ridden in the school. If he’s fine out a hack and fine being lunged could it be he’s just not liking being in the school?

By all means get your vet involved but to me it just seems a bit odd that he’s only doing it in the school
Click to expand...
Others that I know have suggested this, and definitely a possibility, but I couldn't see it likely being the cause with him. He's too willing to please I think. But will definitely bear it in mind!
 
Birker2020 said:
A physio will assess the horse's movement and detect issues which will then require referral to a vet for a diagnosis.

It's essential the vet is notified before the physio has seen the horse in case there are underlying conditions that would aggravate the horses condition i.e infection, wounds, neuro conditions, cushings, colic.

Physios and vets work together, my friend who is a vet physio spends loads of her time between treating her clients, on the phone discussing her cases with the horses own vet. Sometimes they will meet to assess the horse together to share their findings and contribute to the overall treatment plan.
Click to expand...
This! Vet was out last week and I mentioned to her that we were booked in with physio for an MOT (vet was happy he trotted up sound when she was out. Was out for teeth but I'm always cheeky and ask for a quick trotup when they're out for routine stuff 😉)
Trust the physios eye more than the standard vets anyway, her entire job is looking at the way a horse moves and uses itself, vet is not a lameness specialist
 
spotty_pony2 said:
it’s not necessarily the end of his ridden career if it is arthritis. My boy is now 26 and still in light work - we hunted until he was 19 and he’s had a very active life still with very careful management.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Bailey was diagnosed with arthritis in his hocks as a ten year old, he was treated and his complete management overhauled with joint supplement, remedial shoeing, increased turnout, etc, etc. He went on till he was 24 and was pts for an unrelated issue.

He continued happily competing SJ until he was 19 and retired from dressage and fun rides at the age of 22.

I remember a vet telling me that for some horses work is 'the glue' that keeps them together. I feel Lari was probably in this category to a smaller degree.
 
RHGR said:
I would have thought he would do it at times other than just ridden in the school if it was something like that. Had vet out for his teeth last Monday and he was sedated so had a good feeling up there to check/wash off a couple gunky bits I'd noticed the week before but no maggots or anything worrying :(
Click to expand...
Get a professional Sheath Cleaner/Bean Person out to check, there's plenty of them around now. Or have the vet sedate and go for a proper rummage. Amazing what they can find up there, and it's a relatively cheap and easy thing to check off the list of things it could be.
 
That looks a bit typical ulcery to me. Why not just pop him in for a scope for peace of mind? A lot of horses only show symptoms of ulcers in the school as hacking is less pressure/less likely to aggravate them. If clear for ulcers it looks like a standard reaction to not wanting to move off the leg, for some reason - I'd get a full work-up done, it could be any sort of mild niggle that can be easily righted.

Of course he could just be being a bit sour and nappy - but at least with a clear bill of health from the vet you'll feel confident pushing on.

Edited as I got the sex of the horse wrong sorry 🙈
 
frankieduck said:
That looks a bit typical ulcery to me. Why not just pop him in for a scope for peace of mind? A lot of horses only show symptoms of ulcers in the school as hacking is less pressure/less likely to aggravate them. If clear for ulcers it looks like a standard reaction to not wanting to move off the leg, for some reason - I'd get a full work-up done, it could be any sort of mild niggle that can be easily righted.

Of course he could just be being a bit sour and nappy - but at least with a clear bill of health from the vet you'll feel confident pushing on.

Edited as I got the sex of the horse wrong sorry 🙈
Click to expand...
Thank you! For once I'm my life I actually have a horsebox, and managed to do a wee trip around the lanes with him at the start of the week so confident I can actually drive it with horse included! At least I know I can easily get him to vets when needed! Saves the callout fee or costs of hiring transport 🤣
 
Just a random thought, as I know lots of possible veterinary issues have been suggested and are being investigated, but could it be something as simple as he is kicking up fragments of arena surface which are tickling his belly?
 
Just a random thought, as I know lots of possible veterinary issues have been suggested and are being investigated, but could it be something as simple as he is kicking up fragments of arena surface which are tickling his belly?
 
Colivet said:
Just a random thought, as I know lots of possible veterinary issues have been suggested and are being investigated, but could it be something as simple as he is kicking up fragments of arena surface which are tickling his belly?
Click to expand...
Could be! We have an indoor school with a different surface I could try him on, see if he's any different there! Thank you x
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top