western concepts used for an English trained yougster. Thoughts?

[Loudabell]

right, I am seriously torn and would like some advice/thoughts please.....

I have a 6year old IDX. Owned him for 5 months now and previous to me owning him,he had been in Ireland and hunted. Nothing much else. i'm not into showing, not got the balls for cross country yet and only jump small jumps. this could change though as I get to know my boy better but ive never been seriously confident or competitive though so at the age of 32 is it likely too?

I am an intermediate rider although have had horses for ever. I've not got balls of steel and just want to have fun with my lad. we've already done a load of farm rides and have weekly lessons with my instructor. my horse is a sweet natured goon and has the potential to do anything and would turn his hoof to anything if asked.

we have been working on his schooling, getting him to work in an outline, canter on the correct lead etc real basic stuff for now and he can throw the odd tantrum if he doesn't want to do something. he has the potential to be strong and a bit rude but that is because he is a baby and has never been taught. he doesn't get away with his strop and then he soon gives up.

I have done some Natural Horsmanship work, with a friend, with him in-hand and have loved it. he's responded so well and is developing some nice manners. he will move out of my space now, back up and we've got him out of a serious biting habbit. I'[m loving the bond we are developing through it and he enjoys it. I've always been seriously interested in the natural horsemanship methods as I just think it makes a lot more sense to me.

In lessons though my instructor is all about 20m circles, inside leg, outside rein and of course after 45 mins he throws a wobbler as indeed I would. if he does something right, ie picks up the correct canter lead, we do it again and again to show him it was correct. well, it's not sitting with me well at all as surely he will start to resent his schooling work? we have had a couple of instructors and the lady I have at the moment has helped us to make real progress so I have stuck with her. she has helped me to get my lad lighter in the hands and so much more balanced. we are getting there and I do feel a sense of achievement as he;s improved and I've improved loads but.....

my friend rides western and has a very good instructor that uses a lot of natural horsemanship methods. the methods that she uses seem to make a lot more sense to me and seem kinder. it has been suggested that I use her western instructor to teach me and my horse but still in English tack etc. the instructor has done this before.

im seriously torn.

I want my lad to love his work
I want to not worry constantly that he is hating having his head forced in and being forced to circle all the time
I want to enjoy my lessons
go on farm rides
go to clinics
not feel like i'm trying to conform to something that doesn't suit me
be good at something rather than feeling like i'm always the less experienced or confident one!

BUT

I want to still jump a bit
be able to do the odd low level dressage test
not confuse the hell out of my horse
not teach my horse methods that will be difficult to reverse if we decide to do something different later on


do I suck it up, continue doing things the traditional way, perhaps consider another English instructor if mine gets stuck in a circle rut again?

or

try something different that might suit me a lot better? maybe it wont?

i'm open to all advice. I feel a massive responsibility to do the correct thing for this wonderful, young horse that I've waited my whole life for.

 

[Under-the-radar]

For me, if I was not coming out of the lesson feeling like I had achieved something, I would change instructors! There will be an instructor that will be sympathetic to what you are aiming for and trying to achieve with your horse - not every instructor works endlessly on circles!

Try a lesson with a western instructor, or sit in on some lessons with some different instructors to get a feel for what their style is. A friend of mine had lessons with a western instructor, using English tack, but the instructor also had experience of competing BD as well.

And re the competitive bit - I've been an absolute wuss when it comes to competition for pretty much all my life. Competition would be a rarity, and when I went I was a bag of nerves. However, this year (at 34) I have done more competing in the last 6 months than I have in the last 15-20 years combined! I have gone BD, been to regionals, area festivals, took part in BRC quadrille (and now qualified for Olympia), and now about to have a go at a medium test! Don't rule out acquiring a taste for anything - when the right horse comes along, it is entirely possibly that you will enjoy going to competitions!

 

[kinnygirl1]

I think whatever you decide a change of instructor is needed. Sometimes you just don't gel with one persons way of teaching. I would have a go at the western... have a few lessons and get a feel whether its for you. Life is too short to wonder what if and horses are very adaptable and I'm sure your horse will be able to change back to English if you feel that's more your thing.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

a few things to mull over:

* you shouldnt be on the exact same circle for ever and ever but in all honesty establishing the basics of correct dressage work isnt going to be super exciting unless you are a total dressage geek. I know plenty of people that head of for lessons wanting to work on the *tricks* and get put on a 20m circle without stirrups for MONTHS establishing the basics. The tricks will follow on easily. So as long as theres a METHOD (and there must be if the horse is improving) what else exactly apart from circles and school figures do you think you should be doing at this stage? As a trainer i would be throwing in some leg yield and lots of transitions but it doesnt sound like the horse is ready for more?

* perhaps cut the lesson down to 30mins?

* you arent forcing him to keep his head in or circle etc, forcing a horse to do anything is a real physical battle and virtually impossible.

*if you want to compete at all you are going to need to train in the way that allows you to be successful(unless you are going to be happy coming last)

*my dressage youngster was broken by a western trainer but having ridden his reining horse the training is COMPLETELY different and not appropriate when continuing with dressage training. I took a ton of learning away with me from the experience and wouldnt hesitate to send another youngster to him but once you are past the backing stage the ideals and methods are completely different.

*do you actually want to do dressage or just feel you should? you could do western on your horse, they dont have to be QH unless you want to compete at top level.

 

[BethH]

I read your post and just wanted to say wow lucky horse - you're half way there already because you have such a fantastic attitude about his welfare - that will create a bond and a half in any case. I love the intelligent horsemanship stuff and I also love very classical old fashioned training. It should not be about fixing a horse to look pretty - looking pretty without hind end engagement is asking for problems longer term so I think your gut instinct is correct you may need a slightly more enlightened instructor that makes it fun for your horse too - you don't want him switching off and thinking schooling is a chore, especially when you say he has such a good attitude, he sounds a little star.

Whereabout are you based? I love the "TTT" and have always had instructors that trained under their ethos - it should be about sitting correctly and out of the horse's way so he can move properly underneath you without you blocking him. It takes longer but my horse is so responsive and after his KS op rehabbed amazingly as he was always encouraged to be correct never fixed or forced (sadly for other reasons he's abit broken at the moment!). You might also find Centered Riding an interesting read, I did an Instructors course and some of the bits that I thought were incredibly odd actually worked much to my surprise, I came away quite enthused having been quite cynical at the start!

Just carrying being aware of your horse and train him in the way that makes you happy - he is your horse and for you to enjoy, not for anyone else to be critical of, if you do it your way you should get the horse you want - Good luck.

 

[Firewell]

If you want to try some western lessons give it a go! I think it's good to have lots of tools to choose from so to speak. You don't have to give up your work on your basics either as it is v important. However I don't think your instructor should be drilling you. If your horse does something well his reward should be a long rein and then move on to something else IMO not to keep going at it in the same session. Other wise you are both going to get tired and ratty?
I'm having traditional dressage lessons at the moment with a grand prix trainer and I'm also about to do some western style training with my horse on the ground getting him to flex his head and disengage his hindquarters when he feels pressure to supple his body.
There are some good principles about being the leader for your horse in western riding and some good de sensitising methods for hacking out and that sort of thing which I think are transferable skills for any discipline.